PAMPA Voting

I believe that an error was made in sending the ballot prior to allowing campaign statements, I just spoke with several PAMPA members that read and re-read the ballot and thought that they were only entitled to vote for their District Director!

Remember, PAMPA members, the election this year also includes Vice President and Membership chairman.

I would wait until you receive STUNT NEWS to make the decision... the candidates for both positions deserve the right to be heard.

See Ya

LAST EDITED ON Aug-18-02 AT 01:08 PM (CDT)

I interperted it as meaning to vote for Vice President
and Membership Chairman,
THEN vote for the Director for my district (VI).

I don't see a problem if you read it carefully.

Also. Don't forget, you also vote for PAMPA VP if your district VP office is on the ballot. District 10 is unopposed and Bret Buck deserves your support.

Dr Spark
aka: Floyd Carter

Hmmm,

Peabody,

If the ballot has already been sent - then I havn't received it yet. Typical Huntsville mail service.

Jim, I got mine Tuesday and have already sent it off. Maybe you live in the wrong part of Huntsville??

>Also. Don't forget, you also
>vote for PAMPA VP if
>your district VP office is
>on the ballot. District
>10 is unopposed and Bret
>Buck deserves your support.

Thank you! I think the "me vs. empty space" campaign will be a close race with good points to be made for both options.

I think we need a campaign speech, though, Brett. (Remember the last congressional campaign where a dead man won over his live opponent. Wouldn't want that to happen here.)

You can write up your speech and post it on the board if you wish. Remember, you have to include a lot of pork for all of your constituents. (Free barbeque at every contest in your district for all who show up?)

>I believe that an error was
>made in sending the ballot
>prior to allowing campaign statements,
>I just spoke with several
>PAMPA members that read and
>re-read the ballot and thought
>that they were only entitled
>to vote for their District
>Director!
>
>Remember, PAMPA members, the election this
>year also includes Vice President
>and Membership chairman.
>
>
>I would wait until you receive
>STUNT NEWS to make the
>decision... the candidates for both
>positions deserve the right to
>be heard.
>
>See Ya
>
>Peabody

Rich,

Just for clarification the ballot language has not changed since Tom Morris used to include it in Stunt News---before I took over. Why, all of a sudden is it a problem for you to read now?

Also there have never been campaign statements included with any of the ballots I've ever sent out. However, there has always been ample time for the candidates to submit campaign statements to Stunt News if they wished and then said statements could be read by PAMPA members and their decisions made on the ballot. As stated at the bottom of the ballot, ballots should be "postmarked not later than September 30, 2002.

The ballot was mailed earlier this year than in past years due to the dues increase issue. The return date of the ballot has not changed from previous years therefore giving the membership plenty of time to make their decisions as well as read any campaign statements in upcoming Stunt News.

Shareen

>>I believe that an error was
>>made in sending the ballot
>>prior to allowing campaign statements,
>>I just spoke with several
>>PAMPA members that read and
>>re-read the ballot and thought
>>that they were only entitled
>>to vote for their District
>>Director!
>>
>>Remember, PAMPA members, the election this
>>year also includes Vice President
>>and Membership chairman.
>>
>>
>>I would wait until you receive
>>STUNT NEWS to make the
>>decision... the candidates for both
>>positions deserve the right to
>>be heard.
>>
>>See Ya
>>
>>Peabody
>
>
>Rich,
>
>Just for clarification the ballot language
>has not changed since Tom
>Morris used to include it
>in Stunt News---before I took
>over. Why, all of
>a sudden is it a
>problem for you to read
>now?
>
>Also there have never been campaign
>statements included with any of
>the ballots I've ever sent
>out. However, there has
>always been ample time for
>the candidates to submit campaign
>statements to Stunt News if
>they wished and then said
>statements could be read by
>PAMPA members and their decisions
>made on the ballot.
>As stated at the bottom
>of the ballot, ballots should
>be "postmarked not later than
>September 30, 2002.
>
>The ballot was mailed earlier this
>year than in past years
>due to the dues increase
>issue. The return date
>of the ballot has not
>changed from previous years therefore
>giving the membership plenty of
>time to make their decisions
>as well as read any
>campaign statements in upcoming Stunt
>News.

That seems to clear that up nicely. I assume that Rish wishes to extend his apology to Shareen for his inaccurate characterization of the ballot mailing as "an error"

LAST EDITED ON Aug-19-02 AT 04:24 PM (CDT)

Please correct me if I am wrong. I do believe that the AMA system for voting is to send out campaign statements ALONG with the ballot. This does make sense.

>LAST EDITED ON Aug-19-02
>AT 04:24 PM (CDT)
>
>Please correct me if I am
>wrong. I do believe that
>the AMA system for voting
>is to send out campaign
>statements ALONG with the ballot.
>This does make sense.

I think that *is* the AMA system. We use SN instead.

It appears that we have some newcomers to the PAMPA organization inasmuch as some very basic operations are a mystery to them. Since they are now recognized as such i.e., Rich and Mary, they may wish to educate themselves prior to making statements totally devoid of any knowledge of the subject. I learned long ago to never take a knife to a gunfight! Strive to understand exactly what you are attempting to convey as the rest of us seem to get it the first time. Oh, and still looking for the apology to Shareen, what an awesome Lady to have on our side! RJ

I am new to PAMPA...two of the US Stunt Team have been members longer, I believe. The by-laws say that the ballots go out with the newsletter. That seems simple to me.

See Ya

>I am new to PAMPA...two of
>the US Stunt Team have
>been members longer, I believe.
> The by-laws say that
>the ballots go out with
>the newsletter. That seems
>simple to me.
>
>See Ya
>
>Peabody

First things first. Peabody is technically correct in his reading of the by-laws. That particular by-law needs to be changed. Make a note of it.

Having said that...

Unlike those who spend a couple of minutes periodically sitting around picking nits about someone else's hard work, Shareen spends quite literally hundreds of hours annually (for the big bucks, I suppose) working her butt off to make this volunteer organization function. Amongst the many things she does for little or no credit is make suggestions to improve the way this disjointed exercise in long distance administration can do its business.

Several years ago she noted that the historical method of renewing memberships via STUNT NEWS was extremely inefficient. Don`t quote me on numbers but the rate of return from the STUNT NEWS method was dismal. Every year required multiple follow up mailings after the fact to get the renewals necessary to pay for the production of the next year`s worth of operation. This was extremely expensive to PAMPA and required hundreds of hours of extra work for the Secretary (and her hired help...me) printing, folding, stuffing and stamping, etc., etc.

After a couple of years of this Shareen suggested that we could likely increase the on time renewal rate by a factor of several times while at the same time reducing the volunteer labor required as well by making the renewal and ballot a separate and simultaneous mailing. The Exectutive Council agreed and for the last several years the result has been an ENORMOUS success.

By making the ballot and renewal a separate and distinct operation the membership wasn't distracted by the wealth of more interesting stuff which is the main attraction of STUNT NEWS. Instead, this was a business letter which made the member pay attention to business. The savings to PAMPA as a result of more efficient renewal is significant and the maker of the proposal which made the change possible should have been receiving the thanks of the membership. Instead she gets veiled innuendoes of malfeasance. Sort of makes you wonder why she even bothers...I know I do.

This year was unique in that the responsibility to ballot the membership on the need to increase dues in response to the increase in postage and the desire for a larger STUNT NEWS forced a modification to the procedure. What the members received in the mail was the compromise which was necessary to get the ballot in their hands in a timely fashion so that the renewal program could be done utilizing the proper fee schedule. It is less than perfect but is pretty much the only way PAMPA could accomplish its goals in the time period desired...this dues cycle. IT HAPPENED WHEN IT DID BECAUSE THAT WAS WHEN THE GALLEY SLAVES HAD THE TIME TO GET IT DONE...SIMPLE AS THAT.

The only thing that has me concerned is that we are forced to put the membership renewal package within STUNT NEWS again. If history is repeated this means that many members will gloss over the business aspect of this issue and it will require yet more time and resources to get the renewals done. Please don't let this happen at your house!

It ain't pretty but someone has to do it...and Shareen seems to always be the one left holding the bag. And for doing this she gets what...a ration of baloney for working her butt of for free for others.

I would just like to remind the monday morning quarterbacks that it is real easy to pick out the imperfections in the work of others. It's a lot harder to actually do the work and make a system function that provides a great deal of joy to several thousands around the world (and a fertile source of pickyune whining material for a handful who seem always able to find a dark lining in any silver cloud).

Is the operation of PAMPA perfect? No way. How could it be when the ''staff'' is spread out over the entire country and do the work of the organization by fax, telephone, e-mail and pony express. The sum total of face to face opportunity to dot all the i's and cross all the t's is a couple of hours in one evening during the nats when all the volunteers are already fried and wishing they could be out having a brew like everyone else.

Shareen, in particular, leaves her sun-up to midnight job of tabulating and administering all the paper aspects of the weeks events to come up to the meeting and try to participate meaningfully. Heck, no. It isn't perfect but it's pretty darn good for what it costs the members...a big fat zero!

Please excuse my rant but it ticks me off when people take unwarranted pot shots at my wife. If anyone else's wife wants the job I'd be glad to accept her resume.

Ted, Well said. To bad that those who have the best suggestions seem to never have the time to implement them, but that is our system.

>It appears that we have some
>newcomers to the PAMPA organization
>inasmuch as some very basic
>operations are a mystery to
>them. Since they are
>now recognized as such i.e.,
>Rich and Mary, they
>may wish to educate themselves
>prior to making statements totally
>devoid of any knowledge of
>the subject. I learned
>long ago to never take
>a knife to a gunfight!
> Strive to understand exactly
>what you are attempting to
>convey as the rest of
>us seem to get it
>the first time. Oh,
>and still looking for the
>apology to Shareen, what an
>awesome Lady to have on
>our side! RJ

The only statement I was conveying, is that the AMA system semms smart. I didn't realize I was entering a gunfight. I do not believe in violence, nor knife carrying...

I AM a new PAMPA member. I finally joined this year. I enjoy the magazine and I know the financial woes of Stunt News, so I am now contributing. Why didn't I join sooner, you may ask? I have been flying for nearly 10 years. Well, here's how it goes...

At the 1998 Nats, I attended the Business Meeting. What better place to join PAMPA, then at the NATS. During the meeting, there was no mention of proposal for new members, so at the end of the meeting, I approached the Membership Chairperson, Lucky Pyatt and introduced myself, with my 5 bucks in hand. He could have cared less and dismissed me, told me to go look for Shareen and talk to her.
1) I did not know ANY of these people. 2) Perhaps if he had taken the time to be more helpful I would have joined that day. 3) Do you think others have had a similar experience? 4) Maybe I deserve an apology.

When I have someone interested in becoming a member in our club, no matter how busy I am, I make the time to make them feel welcome and let them know we do care.

That's all.

Interesting,
I remember pointing out Shareen to you and walking you over to get an application. If I seemed a bit grumpy to you, It might have been attributed to the fact that I had been judging all day and was a bit under the weather from over exposure to the sun. But people like you and Rich don't seem to care about what other people might be going through, only that you get your moment of attention as a custonmer to PAMPA.

The fact that you jump to help anyone who is interested in your club is wonderful to read and I praise you for your actions. Keep up the good work ...oh, and the next time you feel it necessary to complain about some member as important as Shareen, email her directly and volunteer YOUR time to help relieve the burdon. As for your comment about me, my apologies, but don't ever use someone else as your excuse to not do or join. It just does'nt seem to fit the kind of person you are.

>I am new to PAMPA...two of
>the US Stunt Team have
>been members longer, I believe.
> The by-laws say that
>the ballots go out with
>the newsletter. That seems
>simple to me

It's always simple when someone else is doing it. For example, I would think keeping track of and reporting SN ad revenue in a timely and profession fashion is a simple task. My mistake, it must be the hardest job in the world.

But you are right. You found a mistake in the bylaws. This can be corrected at the earliest opportunity. Funny it didn't bother you that we were doing it "wrong" for the past 10 years, but that's another point.

I'm surprised you are so concerned, anyway. I thought you were going to quit if you didn't get veto power over election results from other districts. No?

I was there. Didn't feel all to welcome. I just assumed it was 'cause we were staying at the same hotel as Peabody.
Al

I don't understand this. Guy asks a simple question, gets a simple answer, and then it degenerates into a finger-pointing contest. Is this the true heart and soul of PAMPA we are seeing?

I ain't impressed.

Yes.

LAST EDITED ON Aug-20-02 AT 02:43 PM (CDT)

>I don't understand this. Guy
>asks a simple question, gets
>a simple answer, and then
>it degenerates into a finger-pointing
>contest. Is this the
>true heart and soul of
>PAMPA we are seeing?
>

This is only the visible tip of a much bigger and more absurd iceberg. There' only so much abuse that people are willing to take. This latest round, for me, crossed the line. It would be laughable if it wasn't so nasty and persistent. To coin a phrase, "it's shameful".

As a District Director and EC member, I will not allow Shareen-bashing to continue in public (no matter how it's "spun") or in private (no matter how hostile and snide), without some sort of response. Not as hard as she works doing her own job, and covering for those who don't.

If someone has a valid concern (like Rich's appears to be) then bring it to the attention of your district representative, or failing that, Frank, in a businesslike and professional matter (like Rich appears to have, superficially, of course). That way, it can be taken care in the professional manner every member has a right to expect, and no one gets bent out of shape. In this case, the solution is one of two simple options - when the nominations are held we will either:

a) tell the candidates that we will print their campaign statements, if any, in SN, and we will take an action to amend the bylaws accordingly

or

b) tell the candidates that they need to submit their campaign statements, if any, to Shareen by some specified date, and will include this with the mailing.

Note no one has to bad-mouth anyone, create strawmen to set afire, play "good cop - bad-cop" on the internet, send each other nasty-grams, etc. Simply taken care of, like a group of mature adults would handle it.

The sort of thing *not* to do, would be, say (to postulate a random example plucked out of the air), start off bashing people and sending abusive email, then play to the crowd by posting a cleaned-up version on the internet. All that will achieve is to create an atmosphere of hostility, which could easily lead to a mistaken impression of the competence and professionalism of all involved. It ensure that the point is lost completely in the inevitable emotional (and if this had actually happened instead of being a hypothetical thought experiement, completely justified) reactions.

In short, and just for reference, if anyone want to accomplish goals, or get concerns addressed in a timely and mature manner, the first act should not be a generalized abusive rant against the people who will be required to fix it.

Is this the old East vs West thing or what?
Chris...

LAST EDITED ON Aug-20-02 AT 01:57 PM (CDT)

Well I am pleased, as this is EXACTLY the kind of junk I was talking about not long ago, and I got spited down for it. Please, continue with the conversation and prove me right some more. How can you people get this unpleasant over an organization that promotes what is basically a toy plane that flies around on strings? My goodness, and I thought I had no life. Gee, that lady was saying nothing bad and then for one to open up the nastiness over nothing... Hey, if I join now, can I still vote? Some people here need to learn to be more of a politician if they are going to be running for a place in that group. What area is district 10? FLOYD

>LAST EDITED ON Aug-20-02
>AT 01:57 PM (CDT)
>
>Well I am pleased, as this
>is EXACTLY the kind of
>junk I was talking about
>not long ago, and I
>got spited down for it.
> Please, continue with the
>conversation and prove me right
>some more. How can
>you people get this unpleasant
>over an organization that promotes
>what is basically a toy
>plane that flies around on
>strings? My goodness, and
>I thought I had no
>life. Gee, that lady
>was saying nothing bad and
>then for one to open
>up the nastiness over nothing...
>Hey, if I join now,
>can I still vote?
>Some people here need to
>learn to be more of
>a politician if they are
>going to be running for
>a place in that group.
> What area is district
>10?

CA, AZ, UT, HI, NV. I am the current director. I don't know if you can still get in fast enough to vote against me, but it never hurts to try.

BTW, if you are refering to me as a "poor politician" I thank you for such kind praise.

People. The "Floyd C" appearing in this thread is not me.

I am Floyd Carter aka: Dr Spark.

I'm Floyd Cummins, as has been mentioned many times.

>Yes.

Interesting response. I am sure there is a good reason for making it. If there is a concern you have, maybe you could share your comments why you feel this way with your District Director. And since you voiced your response in this forum, maybe you could share the same comments to us.

>Interesting,
>I remember pointing out Shareen to
>you and walking you over
>to get an application. If
>I seemed a bit grumpy
>to you, It might have
>been attributed to the fact
>that I had been judging
>all day and was a
>bit under the weather from
>over exposure to the sun.
>But people like you and
>Rich don't seem to care
>about what other people might
>be going through, only that
>you get your moment of
>attention as a custonmer to
>PAMPA.
>
>The fact that you jump to
>help anyone who is interested
>in your club is wonderful
>to read and I praise
>you for your actions. Keep
>up the good work
> ...oh, and the next
>time you feel it necessary
>to complain about some member
>as important as Shareen, email
>her directly and volunteer YOUR
>time to help relieve the
>burdon. As for your comment
>about me, my apologies, but
>don't ever use someone else
>as your excuse to not
>do or join. It just
>does'nt seem to fit the
>kind of person you are.
>
>
>Lucky

Lucky,

I will not continue this point any further after this post, but I did NOT make any complaints against Shareen, if you believe I did you are severly mistaken. I did not see anywhere I said anything negative about her. Since I am in a similar situation with our club as Shareen is in PAMPA, I would never fault anyone who is doing a job. Kudos for Shareen. If someone cannot make an innocent post without people getting their flying lines in a bunch, I guess we are not a democracy afterall.

I sincerly hope you are not confusing my post with Rich's.

You don't know me, so how could you possibly know if something "fits" me or not. All members of PAMPA should take great offense to your remark of "But people like you and
Rich don't seem to care about what other people might be going through, only that you get your moment of attention as a customer to PAMPA." Now what does this convey? Pay up and shut up? Many people go through many things, maybe you had a bad day, I have my bad days, too. I could care less about having my "moment of attention".

I guess I accept your apology, too.

Mary

Floyd, you sound like a "pessimistic optimist".

I just read the letter explaining the reasoning behind the ballot being sent separate from the renewal forms and found it to be very clear and informative. It was reasonable . I also found nothing confusing in the voting layout. It said near the top, for ALL members to vote for the VP and membership VP . Then first thing below the names for those offices was tha District directors to be voted on and the instructions to vote ONLY for the director for the district you (the member) lives in.
What is there to be confused or upset over???
Bigiron13

PS I think that all the elected officials are doing an outstanding job with special emphasis on the job that Shareen is doing.
B

>Lucky,
>
>I will not continue this point
>any further after this post,
>but I did NOT make
>any complaints against Shareen, if
>you believe I did you
>are severly mistaken. I did
>not see anywhere I said
>anything negative about her. Since
>I am in a similar
>situation with our club as
>Shareen is in PAMPA, I
>would never fault anyone who
>is doing a job. Kudos
>for Shareen. If someone cannot
>make an innocent post without
>people getting their flying lines
>in a bunch, I guess
>we are not a democracy
>afterall.
>
>I sincerly hope you are not
>confusing my post with Rich's.
>
>
>You don't know me, so how
>could you possibly know if
>something "fits" me or not.
>All members of PAMPA should
>take great offense to your
>remark of "But people like
>you and
>Rich don't seem to care about
>what other people might be
>going through, only that you
>get your moment of attention
>as a customer to PAMPA."
>Now what does this convey?
>Pay up and shut up?
>Many people go through many
>things, maybe you had a
>bad day, I have my
>bad days, too. I could
>care less about having my
>"moment of attention".
>
>I guess I accept your apology,
>too.
>
> Mary

Dear Mary,

It really is too bad that your--pretty much innocent--comment re the AMA balloting procedure vice PAMPA's got you grouped in with what is merely another chapter in the endless abusive give and take between the one's who do the work of PAMPA and those who take glee in criticizing their work. To the extent that my support of Shareen may have contributed to the reaction I do apologize.

For what it's worth, I felt your original post was quite benign and simply made a comparison between the two methods. The reality is that their is a huge difference between the way an organization like AMA with *comparatively* huge resources, numerous full time paid employees and a common *work facility*; and the disparate volunteer structure of PAMPA. I think, in part, because the *product* of PAMPA, STUNT NEWS, appears quite nearly professional in appearance, many who are not involved intimately with the organization assume that it is something other than what it is...pretty much a handful of club members doing tons of volunteer work (as you are well aware thanks to your own local efforts) scattered all over the planet (literally!).

Unfortunately, what you may or may not be aware of is the history of abuse and accusation toward those who do the work that has been altogether too common over much of PAMPA's existence. At some point in time those who are the targets of the abuse understandably react. It is unfortunate that much of the action/reaction sometimes occurs in a public forum such as this. That it does is pretty much unavoidable. When the missiles are launched in that forum the targets have little choice but to respond to prevent the accusations of incompetence or malfeasance from becoming "true by default".

I do hope that you and Lucky can truly put this behind you. I know Lucky to be a pleasant and gentle human and I expect no less is true of yourself. I only ask that you recognize that the Nats is a difficult place to conduct *business*. Everyone gets tired, overheated and just plain pooped.

To those who take umbrage at the presence of this unpleasantness on Len's generally enjoyable forum, I couldn't agree more. I don't think this is an appropriate place to conduct *legitimate* disputes regarding the conduct of PAMPA's affairs. Unfortunately, once again, to not respond in support of the people who make PAMPA work (and, not co-incidentally, make the need for a forum such as this a valued addition to the communication between stunt flyers all over the world) would be irresponsible. Those that do the work of the organization deserve support from those who appreciate their efforts. Alas, this time the support had to be public.

Ted

p.s. disagreeable though it often is, this sort of debate is actually a fundamental and necessary aspect of a democracy. The right to express opposing points of view...even awkwardly or in an untactful fashion...is part and parcel of making a system function in a manner which acknowldeges the right of all points of view to be determinative in making our decisions. Ideally, we would pick and choose the appropriate forum for such give and take, but today's instant communication world makes it all too easy to put down anything that comes into our mind, push the send button and declare..."this'll teach you. Take that!" Sometimes it's just too easy to act before we think.

Mary,
I don't know you and I know you don't know me,but I have known Lucky for 35 of my 43 years.He was the guy that had a box of hand launch gliders and let us little kids toss them ( he was a teen I think)while our Dads flew Stunt at contests and big practices in Southern California.I remember his kindness and help when he knew something I didn't.
As an adult he is a fine man,always complimentery to others and a big help in the stunt community.
Heres the deal,just think of him as I do say,John D'attavio,he is a good man from your neck of the woods and always was a fine help at contests and the Nats.Great flyer too.But I didn't expect John not to defend himself when attacked or not defend others good work.Some people may think you are attacking Lucky, and Shareen.
The reason some may feel this way is you posted on Peabody's thread.As far as I can see here there is no problem with the ballot,nor is it any different than any other time save for Shareen sending it early so we can think about the dues increase.To that I think I am with the majority(and you) in saying thanks Shareen.
I'm sure glad you explained your support for Shareen and I echo Ted's wish that you can put this thing with Lucky behind you.
Thanks,Chris...

OK I could not stay out any longer. I want some explainations here.

Peabody,

You are up in a huff about this why? From what Brett says the voting has been conducted this way for many years in the past and you have not said anything before. Did you go to the source before giving out your impartial statements here and there. What gives? Give me full explaination please not just some small pellets of information here and there.

Those on the EC or whoever makes the decisions howcome if this is how it is truly voted on the bylaws do not reflect this? Why was it not changed when the method of sending out the ballots was changed? I am simply asking a question and not putting anyone on the block here or attacking anyone just curious about this. I really dont have a problem with it myself what so ever. I am just curious becasue now someone has a problem with it and technically they are correct. But if we did it the right way then it would not be benifical to PAMPA for one reason or another. So correct the bylaws and next year this wont happen.

Now onto something else. I know full well that Shareen's job is pretty much do everything that has to do with pretty much most all of it when it comes to PAMPA.(did that makes sense?)BIGGGG THANKSSSSSS TO SHAREEN FOR ALL THE WORK!!!!!! But how was this a personal attack on her? I thought he simply stated that he thought the ballots were sent out at the wrong time. Not something personal towards Shareen. If he did do that this thread would be whole lot longer than that and should be.

Keith,

Your response to Al seems to mean you think most all have a great view of what is going on. Well some reading this thread and many other threads like it see a bunch of people saying stuff and bunch of other people taking it all different ways and eventually it always turns into someone being accused of finger pointing. This promotes the most healthy view of what is going on dont you think?(read that last sentence with sarcasim)

Simply put humans and that somehow includes myself are very defensive animals. Remember the Frank comments? People are defensive by nature and when there is actually no way to see what people are saying while they are saying it, it is over. Bring out the flack jackets and gladiator shields. The worst will ALWAYS be the first thing thought about any particular post. It always happens history teaches us this time and time again. Anyone who read the very first post and took that as a personal attack well that was the defensive nature kicking in. Shareen came on here and very professionally, i cant spell worth a crap, answered the very unprofessional first post. Without taking at as finger pointing, I think. It looked that way anyways to me. When I first read Rich's post I had no thoughts of it being an attack on Shareen. No one should have taken it that way except for Ted. This is his wife and you can be that way about your wife any Da*n time you please in my book. This seemed to be simple statement about the time the ballots were sent out. The human defense kicks in and here it comes all the finger pointing comments and so on.

Rich,

Please start posting all of what you are trying to say. You just came on here and said they made and error without backing it up with the bylaws statement. You knew all along it was in the bylaws this way or you would not have said that in the first place. It looks to me and others who dont know the bylaws so well that you are just blasting out without anything back there to show for it. You are so good at just posting enough to get people chomping at the bit. Then in everyones defensive nature mine included it looks like a personal attack of some sort. If it is then say so if isnt then explain it away. These small posts of yours firing up people are becoming very common.

Hi Ted,

My wife has decided that she'd rather have the duties and responsibilities of being your wife. That is the job opening, isn't it?

I'd just like to say publicly that I appreciate all of Shareen's efforts which so greatly benefit PAMPA and our newsletter. I appreciate you also, Ted, even if you don't add up score cards and look at backsides in the hot sun. That was especially nice of the two of you to open your home to Mike and myself and chat models for an afternoon when the wind forced us not to fly.
(I've been fortunate so far that the negative comments have been offset handsomely by notes of appreciation regarding my rantings in Stunt News.) -- Iain

Wow!!!! Less than one year off of the EC and look at all the crap I haven't had to put up with. LOL! To one degree or another I know most of the potentates in this harangue and participated in an event not unsimilar to this one, with the some of the same people, just a few years past.

For the love of God, if you know what grates on folks who are working hard, for free, and getting good results......don't go out of your way to fan an ember into a flame! If you know the procedure for executing a change within this organization, follow that procedure, and either the EC or Frank or a vote from the membership will help voice your concern or request for change! Nobody ever needs to run around the membership lighting little fires when you have the right carry a torch through channels right to the top!

This is a great organization and a great group of people over all. What good is it doing to put overburdened volunteers on the defensive? This is very counterproductive although I would agree with Ted that sometimes democracies demand an argument. I also do not blame him one bit for defending his wife. She does the most work of anyone in PAMPA I would bet, and we had better pray she never quits because those shoes will be very hard to fill without a salary and some bennies thrown in! Then watch your dues go up!

If there was some overreaction on anyones part in this thread, I hope that anyone not familiar with past transgressions, entanglements, and just plain history, will try to understand, that those long serving EC and other PAMPA volunteers are a bit weary of criticisms and ideals not run through proper channels while their hard work, dedication, and genuine support of this organization gets slapped around as if it were of no merit.

My two cents worth,

John
Well, I picked this crowd, for the love of a common passion.

Hey......anyone wanna go fly model airplanes? I heard its a lot of fun....

Well, volunteers is volunteers, after all. If they don't like criticism, then that is unfortunate. I am sure some people are too hard on folks. However, if you are volunteering to do something, and you get a bad feeling about peoples' attitudes, then you ought to quit. It's not like a real job where you'll starve if you quit. If you keep with it then you are accepting that people will criticize and you ought to quit complaining. Besides, in a membership organization, the membership's got a right. I know I have been cricized constantly since I was a small child. I am so used to it that it is like it just rolls off of me, nothing sticks. You just have to get used to it. After a while you can enjoy it. Remember the critics are probably jealous. I think if you are going to run an organization having to do with a hobby like this you have to recognize the nature of the hobby, and put yourself above the certain faction who are dimwits and who have their whole life invested in flying model airplanes. FLOYD

LAST EDITED ON Aug-22-02 AT 06:45 AM (CDT)

>...I know I have been cricized
>constantly since I was a
>small child...
>FLOYD

Although I never would have guessed, this explains alot.
catdaddy

>Hey......anyone wanna go fly model airplanes?
>I heard its a lot
>of fun....

I second that emotion.... \/

<====================<^>[BR>
(my attempt at a computer icon c/l plane.)

"I think if you are going to run an organization having to do with a hobby like this you have to recognize the nature of the hobby, and put yourself above the certain faction who are dimwits and who have their whole life invested in flying model airplanes. FLOYD"

Floyd...
You do have your moments and the above copied statement proves it. I hope that someday you and I can meet. (In the world of programming and project management, critisem, positive & negative, is the norm from the upper level managers and wanna be managers. And you are right when we let the stuff roll off like water on a Ducks back.)
As I read the different and diverse comments posted in the SS forum, I tend to slip into an uncomplete sense of who the people are behind the comments. Bad form for those of us who have spent years volunteering for the PAMPA organization and our hobby in general. Of you, I have slipped but now understand and look forward to your comments in the future. Specially when you and Dirty Dan go at it.

Mary...
Again, my apologies for any mistreatment I thrust apon you in 1998. It has never been, is not now, and never will be my intention to cause discomfort to any person for any reason. You appear to have a better insight to Rich Peabody that has not been shared widely. My only experiences with Rich has been to defend myself and PAMPA from his criticisms. This does tend to leave a very sour taste for the person. In my response to your comments, I have mistakenly placed you in the same light with Rich. This was callous on my part and deserves correction. You, Rich and every other member of PAMPA ARE the customers of the EC and deserve our full attention when asked.

Looking forward to the replies... Lucky