Stuka Stunt Control Line Forum
Archive, 2000–2021 · recovered from the Internet Archive
Forums › Stuka Stunt Main Forum

Handicap Stunt?

Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 6 of 6 known posts recovered

Larry F · Feb 11, 2001 02:02 PM

#0 source
Golf has a better solution to the "class" problem than CL Stunt. That is, all but the professionals (Experts in our case) play with a handicap that is used to adjust their score. In golf, there are no intermediates or advanced or beginners. Seems to me like the same concept (with some caveats) would work in stunt. The Experts fight it out on raw scores, and the rest of the field fights it out on handicap scores.

The first advantage is that stunt contests are reduced to two classes -- "Expert" and "Flyer".

The second advantage is that the quibbling over "which class do you belong in?" totally disappears. Current Intermediates would just have a bigger handicap than current Advanced flyers, and they could go head to head.

From a statisticians point of view, we now have a system that does not work. That is, in a field of 100, we should be able to sort the scores top to bottom, make into quartiles, and call the top 25 Expert, the next 25 Advanced, etc. If we did so under the current system, and the system was perfect, the 26th best flyer would win Advanced. The carping I hear about the current system is that the 19th best flyer may opt to fly Advanced, and easily win because they are in the "wrong" quartile. Same with the Advanced and Intermediate. The 40th best may choose to fly Intermediate when a handicap system says the flyer is in the wrong quartile.

The details of a handicap system are not all that difficult. We could work them out. Do you score practice flights, or just official events, for example? The USGA assumes golfers are honest and scores practice rounds. I suspect that CL fliers are a tad more honest than golfers, and a handicap system could work.

We have a major implementation problem. Unllike the USGA, PAMPA and AMA do not have the staff to maintain an official handicap number system for all flyers. There are easy solutions to that problem.

Your thoughts?

Larry F


The current in

Brett Buck · Feb 11, 2001 06:33 PM

#1 source

>We have a major implementation problem.
>Unllike the USGA, PAMPA and
>AMA do not have the
>staff to maintain an official
>handicap number system for all
>flyers. There are easy solutions
>to that problem.


The immediately evident problem (and why the analogy with golf is not appropriate) is that the score is subjectively applied. A 50 point handicap in Arizona is not remotely the same as a 50 point handicap in Indiana. This is also what defeats the "mandatory advancement at a particular score" system, and is why the official rules allow optional advancement.

I have said it before, and will repeat it - the only real solution is to have a "graybeard committee" seed people based on how they fly. I can easily tell from some hallmarks when someone was in advanced, and someone should be in Expert. I am one who feels the breakout at the NATS is about right. Others would disagree.

There really isn't a huge problem with what we are doing now. The complaints are relatively rare compared to those who are satisfied.

Brett

Steve Helmick · Feb 12, 2001 10:55 PM

#2 source
What HE said! We don't get much sniveling, but there is some friendly ribbing going on, such as: "Nils, I thought you were moving up to Expert for this contest?" TeeHee! Steve

Nils · Feb 13, 2001 12:22 AM

#3 source
LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-01 AT 00:23 AM (EST)

Geez Steve, I've only flown part of one season in Advanced! What's it to you anyway? hahahaha!
Nils

Jim T. · Feb 13, 2001 10:47 PM

#4 source
AMA Sanctioned Events Rule # 7 (on page 6 of the rulebook)Handicaps. "Unless approved by AMA scoring handicaps are prohibited."

The present skill class system is working very well and is the major reason why stunt is flourishing whilst other areas of CL are struggling. I would not have considered flying stunt without the skill classes. As it is, I have had many happy hours competing in Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced. Although I will never be an Expert myself, the system has produced many Expert-level flyers. Back in the 70's in the Midwest it was not unusual to have a contest with NO Expert entries. I can personally think of a dozen or so today, some Top-20 caliber, that I used to outscore years ago in one of the lower categories. The system is working to produce the most Expert flyers that we've seen in years and the whole of the stunt community has improved greatly. I've been to a number of contests where no contestant crashed, no contestant had motor trouble, and all completed the pattern: Beginner through Expert.

While there are a few flyers who have no need of the system when they start flying stunt (Howard Rush is the only one I have heard of), the vast majority of us have greatly benefitted from it.

I wish all you people wanting to "improve" the system would go argue about P-force or something equally harmless.

Jim

Brett Buck · Feb 14, 2001 12:06 AM

#5 source
>I wish all you people wanting
>to "improve" the system would
>go argue about P-force or
>something equally harmless.


I tend to think the current system is pretty good, too. But I also think it's at least giving a listen to possible improvments. In this case, I think it's not really what we need, but maybe not the next time.

I also tend to share the view that the skill classes have been great for the event. I don't necessarily agree that they have the primary factor in improving the quality of flying. I'm certain the average quality of flight has improved tremendously over the last 20 years, very rapidly in the last 10. I think the primary factors are that everybody's engine runs well and provides more than adequate power, and abundant and accurate trim information is available every month in Stunt News.

There's no doubt in my mind that whatever the reason, stunt is in robust good health compared to where it looked like it was headed in, say, 1980.

Brett