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Tachometers

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Peter Hess · Mar 20, 2001 04:46 PM

#0 source
What do folks recommend for a moderately priced, reliable tach? I have read a lot of adverse comments about GloBees, but no particularly good comments about some of the similarly priced alternatives available from Tower or Hobbico, for example.
If the "moderately priced" modifier is deleted from the question, what's a good choice?
Thanks for your comments.

Brett Buck · Mar 20, 2001 07:38 PM

#1 source
>What do folks recommend for a
>moderately priced, reliable tach?
>I have read a lot
>of adverse comments about GloBees,
>but no particularly good comments
>about some of the similarly
>priced alternatives available from Tower
>or Hobbico, for example.
>If the "moderately priced" modifier is
>deleted from the question, what's
>a good choice?

I think the only one worth expending hard-earned funds for is the TNC tach. It's $85, but it actually works, unlike the Tower/Hobbico and the the GloBee. To me paying $25 for one that doesn't work well is being penny wise and pound foolish.

It's unfortunate that the old Heathkit analog tach is no longer available. It worked well, and you could save a lot of money by assembling it yourself.

Brett

LNeumann · Mar 20, 2001 07:55 PM

#2 source
I'll second what Brett said here. Some of the cheaper tachs work, but are not accurate, and some don't have much range. They may be useable as a reference (This is what you launch with using your tach) but they do not give an accurate reading of what your engine is doing. Some bounce all over the place making it even hard to figure out what reading they are giving.

The TNC tach is available in two varieties. $80 for three digit readout, $100 for switchable three or four digit readout. You can, also, buy the three digit unit and have it upgraded to the four digit unit for $19.95. (Not a bad deal, either.) Postage is extra.

http://www.ulster.net/~tnc/tncweb.html

Leonard Neumann

gcb · Mar 20, 2001 08:38 PM

#3 source
Tony is a retired engineer and a nice guy..even though he flies RC

Oh yeah, he makes a great tach too!

George

Peter Hess · Mar 20, 2001 08:39 PM

#4 source
Brett and Leonard:
Thank you for your suggestions. Such unanimity must be taken seriously. I certainly agree that there is no point in paying good money for something that does not work well. I think that I will just have to bite the bullet and buy the good stuff and, while I am at it, I think I will probably spring for the PT10S. I'll then be able to pretend that I know what I am doing.
Peter

The Kiwi · Mar 20, 2001 10:46 PM

#5 source
LAST EDITED ON Mar-20-01 AT 11:39 PM (EST)

Several years ago, while beginning to work with some engines I'd never experimented with before, I acquired a Royal tach. It's a really garish purple color and seems to work fine. It wasn't very expensive at all. HOWEVER, I forget that I have it with me, most of the time -- just about the only time I do recall to pull it out is when I have an engine running on a test stand.

I often wonder why I forget having it at regular flying sessions, but all I can come up with is the habits of too many years didn't include using such a tool.

As best I can recall, this tach was between $50 and $60 six years or so ago. I wonder if it was an overpriced "cheap" tach or cost less back then than $80 or $85 of today, just due to inflation?


Kiwi

.

Randy · Mar 20, 2001 11:27 PM

#6 source
Hmm, I use one of those "cheap" tachs. YOur right, it's good to get a reading for launch on your plane that you have used it one many times, but it doesn't really tell you what the engine is ACTUALLY doing.

Len, thanks for the web address!

Randy

Nils · Mar 21, 2001 02:51 AM

#7 source
Brett told me about TNC tachs a year or so ago. I bought one & it has worked great. Great people to deal with too. One suggestion, if you haven't already ordered one-I bought the $100 model with the button for the extra digit & have actually used that feature approximately- never. It is totally superfluous for my needs. If I had it to do over I'd spend the twenty bucks on fuel.


Nils

denlip · Mar 21, 2001 08:17 AM

#8 source
Kiwi, the royal tach was a high quality tach, your talking about the one that had the 5 different scales and the push button options on it. Mine was white, i built it from a kit and I can assure you that it was made to lab quality specs. even to having o tolerance resisters, even the meter had a jeweled pivot point for the needle. Still have mine, but like you I rarely use it, keep forgetting that it's there.

LNeumann · Mar 21, 2001 08:44 AM

#9 source
Some people can set their engines "by ear". Your ear is a tach, too, you know. (The faster the engine runs, the higher the pitch). Most people's sense of pitch is not that accurate, plus it is nice to know exactly where to launch a particular plane with a particular prop. Just earlier this week we were out flying and using the 13 inch three blade that worked so well last year. We then switched to a 14 inch three blade that Matthew had reworked and the launch rpm had to drop 1000 rpm in order to maintain the same lap speeds. That meant the pitch was probably slightly high, so Matthew dropped the pitch slightly on each blade. The problem is, the Prather Pitch gauge doesn't measure past about 11.5 inches, so after that you are kind of on your own. Still, having the tach to know what rpm is needed to run a certain prop combination certainly helps. Even with the 35, there was a major difference between Zingers and By&Os and Rev-Ups and Bollys and... We always use a tach every time we go flying. We set the engine with the tach the first couple of flights. After that, if we keep the same configuration, then it is just "flip and go".

Leonard Neumann

Brett Buck · Mar 21, 2001 02:59 PM

#11 source
>Some people can set their engines
>"by ear". Your ear
>is a tach, too, you
>know. (The faster the
>engine runs, the higher the
>pitch). Most people's sense
>of pitch is not that
>accurate, plus it is nice
>to know exactly where to
>launch a particular plane with
>a particular prop. Just
>earlier this week we were
>out flying and using the
>13 inch three blade that
>worked so well last year.
> We then switched to
>a 14 inch three blade
>that Matthew had reworked and
>the launch rpm had to
>drop 1000 rpm in order
>to maintain the same lap
>speeds. That meant the
>pitch was probably slightly high,
>so Matthew dropped the pitch
>slightly on each blade.

That *might* be true. It's much more likely that the extra load on the prop on the ground resulted in more unload, meaning it has to be set slower on the ground to get the right in-flight revs. Of course, reducing the pitch reduces the unloading too.


>The problem is, the Prather
>Pitch gauge doesn't measure past
>about 11.5 inches, so after
>that you are kind of
>on your own.


Really? Mine goes out to about 13", if you hang the slider off the edge.

Still,
>having the tach to know
>what rpm is needed to
>run a certain prop combination
>certainly helps. Even with
>the 35, there was a
>major difference between Zingers and
>By&Os and Rev-Ups and Bollys
>and...


It's even more complicated than brand-to-brand variation of the measured pitch. The airfoil shape has a huge effect on both the ability to measure, and the line of zero lift. Most Bollys, for example, have a semi-symmetrical airfoil that tends to end up being measured at less than it really is just by virtue of the shape causing you to measure lower than the chord line. On others, like the Rev-Up and Brian Eather props, you are more or less measuring the chord line, but even then, the fundamental property you need to make analytical sense out of the effects is the line of zero lift, and that is drastically different between the Brian Eather, Rev-up, and Bolly, even if you measure the chord line perfectly. By drastically different, to get a true pitch of 3.5" at the tip of a 12" Brian Eather u/c prop, the chord line has to be at a negative angle! Now we all know from experience that actually using this sort of angle will result in terrible performance (like you deployed a parachute in every corner), which merely means that we have determined through trial and error that the best pitch distribution is strongly progressive.

I've been doing a lot of research in this area. If anyone has good examples of different competitive props (Bolly, Brian Eather, APC, Bill Lee, or old-style Y&O, BY&O, and Brodak BY&0) that are broken but still have one intact blade, please contact me and I'll see of it would fill in any gaps in the record. I cut the prop into sections, then scan it in using a scanner, then blow it up in order to determine the camber, high point, and thus zero-lift-line position. This was suggested by the illustrious Joe Supercool, on his web site, and it's a real eye-opener, and makes a lot of sense out of some otherwise very inconsistent results.

Brett

LNeumann · Mar 21, 2001 03:16 PM

#12 source
>>The problem is, the Prather
>>Pitch gauge doesn't measure past
>>about 11.5 inches, so after
>>that you are kind of
>>on your own.
>
>
> Really? Mine goes out
>to about 13", if you
>hang the slider off the
>edge.
>
>Brett

OK, now you have me wondering. Is it possible that there are different variants of the Prather pitch gauge? Ours has 14 stations on the face plate, but, only 13 stations on the base. Measuring from the center of the last station (13) to the edge of the bar used to measure the pitch, I read 5 5/8 inches. That would make it 11 1/4 inch for the prop diameter. If you hang the slider off the edge to try to (somehow) use the 14th station, the distance still measures only 6 inches on our gauge, making it 12 inches as the maximum that could then be read (accurately or not.)

If yours, or someone else's out there in cyberspace, is different than the one we have, I would be interested to know. (All right, everybody, let's all go out and measure our Prather Pitch Gauges.)

Leonard Neumann

The Kiwi · Mar 21, 2001 03:28 PM

RE: Tachometers - the Royal #14 source
>. . . the one that had the 5 different scales and
>the push button options on it.

Actually, it has one switch, a three-way. Position one is OFF, two is two-blade props, and three is three-bladed props.

>. . . it was made to lab quality specs. even to
>having o tolerance resisters, even the meter had a
>jeweled pivot point for the needle.

Mine has a digital readout, not an analog needle.


Kiwi

Peter Hess · Mar 21, 2001 12:07 PM

#10 source
Thanks for all the comments that followed the initial ones by Leonard and Brett. They are very helpful. And, Nils, you might have saved me $20, although I have not yet reached a decision about which model I will order.
Leonard, your saying that you were flying just the other day makes my heart ache. In this part of Connecticut we still have snow on the ground and the forecast is for 4" - 8" tonight and tomorrow morning. Well, enjoy your relatively good weather fortune. It must be one of the rewards of being the author of the 3,000th post.
Peter

peabody · Mar 21, 2001 03:19 PM

#13 source
Brett, as usual, has provided sage advise!

I have fooled with the less expensive units (cheaper) in effort to be able to offer reasonable alternatives to new guys. I have ended up pitching two into our swamp!

The TNC unit is terrific!

I opted to buy the one that displays to 10 rpm simple because it made sense. These are really good units!

See Ya

Peabody

Howard Rush · Mar 22, 2001 12:49 AM

#15 source
Here's another vote for the TNC. It works in extremely low light. We were getting readings through the prop at post-sunset glow that was a bunch weaker than the street light we were using to see what we were doing. Another virtue is that it uses a common 9V battery, rather than something rare and expensive.

The 100-RPM version is plenty adequate. Engine RPM wanders around +/-100 RPM anyhow.

Currell · Mar 22, 2001 08:09 AM

#16 source
The Hobbico needs a "lot" of light to work at all. (Kind of like me these days, trying to read the 4 point pica in the newspaper, which is telling me how much $ I lost on the Nasdaq evening last. Or maybe I don't want to know).

Anyway, in fading afternoon light, the nose of the Hobbico practically has to make love with the spinner to get any kind of reading. Which isn't good, and not aconducive to long tach life. So when the H. sheds its mortal coil through (hopefully) normal means, I'll go to one of the recommended (albeit pricier) tachs posted here.

Another Hobbico whine: Whether you store it in its little box or just throw it in the field box, it is easy to inadvertantly move the on/off switch to ON.

More: the rectangular shape doesn't fit the hand in any ergonomically correct way that I am familiar with. Picky, picky. But Dubbya doesn't care about carpal tunnel.

Still more: the averaging algorithm needs to be smoother. (You have to decide: do I read that peak rpm figure that I think I saw flashing and teasing me for a millisecond, or do I take that steady value that was lower, but hung around for, say, half asecond? When you're trying to pick your best Cox 1/2A (such as it is), this is "important".

Currell (not tacky)