Flying Lines

OK, gang, time for another lesson in my effort to learn to do a few things right....I tried to wrap some flying line ends per the AMA rules tonight and made an unholy mess. Someday I will find all the lost thimbles-probably in my foot in the middle of the night. What are some of your favorite hints kinks materials and tools for making this task easier and neater?
TIA,
Kelvin

Do either of the following:

1. Just keep on doing it until you get better at it. Yes, you will actually get better.

2. Buy your lines already wrapped from Mr. Tom Morris at
327 Pueblo Pass, Anniston, AL 36206. He has some really nice looking wrapped ends too. Just as nice as Pitkin's were.

Jim Pollck

>Do either of the following:
>
>1. Just keep on doing it until you get better
>at it. Yes, you will actually get better.
>
>2. Buy your lines already wrapped from Mr. Tom Morris at
>327 Pueblo Pass, Anniston, AL 36206. He has some really
>nice looking wrapped ends too. Just as nice as Pitkin's were.
>
>Jim Pollck

>Do either of the following:
>
>1. Just keep on doing it until you get better
>at it. Yes, you will actually get better.
>
>2. Buy your lines already wrapped from Mr. Tom Morris at
>327 Pueblo Pass, Anniston, AL 36206. He has some really
>nice looking wrapped ends too. Just as nice as Pitkin's were.
>
>Jim Pollck

Tom also sells a line tying jig that is the greatest thing since sex (well almost).. It is built by Warren Tiahrt and works wonderfull.. A tad expensive at $59.95 and yes you could build it yourself with about $10.00 in material and a free day.. You just have to judge what your time is worth.

Anyway.. I bit the bullet and bought one, my first ever wraped set of lines came out pretty darn good if I do say so myself and the jig makes it a snap to do.. I saw some mention of it in either the last issue of Stunt News or Model Avation and the author liked it also...

I mailed a couple of short pieces of lath strip on either side of an old wooden mitre box I was going to throw away. I took a screw eye and cut it to where I could slip a grommet in and screwed it into one of the lath strips. I took a small C-clamp and wrapped it with some masking tape. Put the grommet on the screw-eye and put the line around it, pull the line tight and use the C-clamp to hold it tight on the other lath strip. Then wrap away.

Cheap, effective, easy. Ability to easily make up new lines, cut off lines and redo the ends will make life much better for you. Basic idea is to hold the grommet and keep the line tight with some device. I spent maybe 4 minutes making a gadget to do so.

I find that the stuff that I try to create usually ends up with a giant knot and usually about 4 inches too short.

I buy my line stuff bulk and have a flying buddy create them..... he gets to build all that he wants, too!

BTW: crimping, done properly, is stronger. But not sexy.

See Ya

>BTW: crimping, done properly, is stronger.
> But not sexy.

A while back Nils Norling did a piece in "Stunt News" about finishing line ends with crimping. Instead of using a thimble, however, he used a piece of 1/16" brass tubing bent into a narrow teardrop shape (with the open ends at the point)and heat-shrink tubing over the ends of brass tubing to a little past the end of the crimp tube to remove stress risers and prevent fouling. They looked pretty "sexy"!
I have not tried them yet, but intend to do so when I get some of Tom Morris' 19 strand lines.

It has been noted that crimped line ends are as strong or stronger than the line, itself. If the ends are terminated properly, you can pull straight out on the crimped lines and the line will probably break elsewhere. The problem with crimps is that anything that flexes will, eventually, break, and the flex is usually right on the crimp. So, in use, they will flex at that "stress riser" point, and, eventually, break strand by strand at the crimp.

Putting the heat shrink tubing over the crimp may help alleviate or even stop this problem entirely. If so, it could be a "good" solution.

The "bad" is that, with the tubing over the crimp you are unable to see if the lines are starting to let go strand by strand.

If you can't see the point where it breaks, you may continue to use the lines thinking all is well. Shortly after that a second and third strand could let go and that's when it gets "ugly".

I retire my lines after 500 flights, just to be on the safe side. No problems so far. I make up my belcrank-leadout connections using the same basic method & have 800+ flights on one airplane set up this way. No problems with it to date either, although the CSC flap horn pushrod bushings have worn out & I've had to JB Weld them in place twice.
I have the article & pictures in my computer & will be happy to email the info to anyone who sends me an email request for them.
Nils

Nils was kind enough to forward the above referenced info to me, and I dare say it looks pretty interesting. It looks to me that the likelihood of a fatigue failure isn't especially greater than with any other method I have seen, and better than the sloppy commercial crimps. Even the wire wrapped ones have a point at which they can flex to failure. Does anyone else use the 500 flight retirement age? As little as we fly, we could take one of Nils' retired sets and get another 20 years out of them.........

I have no idea how many flights I put on my lines. I inspect them every 2 or 3 flights and if there is anything that even looks suspect, the go in the can. I have one set I've used for 3 or 4 seasons. Another went into the can after 5 flights. Just depends on the condition. Of course, I wrap my lines and usually use heat shrink tubing over the wrap.

Small Parts have a pretty neat little cable thimble, U-MCT-1, for cable from .015" up to 3/64" dia. The dimension in the catalogue looked wrong to me and the company confirmed that the overall width is 1/8", not the groove.

>Small Parts have a pretty neat
>little cable thimble, U-MCT-1, for
>cable from .015" up to
>3/64" dia. The dimension
>in the catalogue looked wrong
>to me and the company
>confirmed that the overall width
>is 1/8", not the groove.

Deep sea fishing catalogs (e.g. Capt. Harry's) carry plastic
thimbles, which should be about the same size. Not particularly
cheap, though.

>
>
>>BTW: crimping, done properly, is stronger.
>> But not sexy.
>
>A while back Nils Norling did
>a piece in "Stunt News"
>about finishing line ends with
>crimping. Instead of using
>a thimble, however, he used
>a piece of 1/16" brass
>tubing bent into a narrow
>teardrop shape (with the open
>ends at the point)and heat-shrink
>tubing over the ends of
>brass tubing to a little
>past the end of the
>crimp tube to remove stress
>risers and prevent fouling.
>They looked pretty "sexy"!
>I have not tried them yet,
>but intend to do so
>when I get some of
>Tom Morris' 19 strand lines.

19 strands? Hmmm..

The more strands, the less the breaking strength. Might want to check into that.

Gang --

I'll put my Big, Strong, Handsome Wife up against the fanciest jig you can build. There are many advantages of a BSHW over a jig:

*The BSHW has eyes, and can help find little eyelets when they leap away.

*The BSHW can be trained in less than 4 minutes.

*The BSHW has given birth and raised children, so is calming and helpful in times of crisis.

*The BSHW can, with one hand, put a band-aid on your finger if you wound yourself.

*The BSHW understands the process and can fetch tools and parts as needed.

*The BSHW has strong opinions and will notify you if you are doing something stupid, bad, or ugly.

*Although maintenance and replacement costs for the BSHW are high, these are sunk costs.

*The BSHW is a universal jig, and can be modified for many model-building activities.

*No matter where you leave her laying or how you handle her, you will never get a splinter from the BSHW.

Folks:

Larry helped me do a set of lines tonight, then I read all this thread. I don't like the idea of crimping. Wrapping is easy, takes 4 hands, but the airplane won't fly away when we wrap. We used a landing gear from another plane to hold the eyelet, and I took the tape off (Larry had masking tape on the landing gear for "right") so the eyelet would go to the middle of the wire.

What we did was keep the lines taut and use the other hand to wrap. Works fine.

Linder F

I would NEVER put heat shrink over the ends of the lines, If a single strand breaks (the first one going toward complete failure) the heat shrink will keep it hidden. Then the next one breaks and is hidden NEXT??? If you can see the wrapped (or crimped) ends you can see or feel when one strand breaks.
Some years back when they allowed cable in Rat Race, I was in a race, and actually saw one strand break at the wrapped end on the handle end of my lines. I warned the other three fliers in the circle with me. This was before the days of shutoffs. The other three flew low and I went as high as I could to ease the pull on the lines. It worked and we all got down OK. I have seen many times that people were running down their lines and found a broken strand at one end or the other. So Think about this before you put heatshrink over your line ends.
Bigiron
PS Putting it over the crimp or wrap on the HANDLE cable is not as hazardious as the cable usually breaks first there at the handle outlet holes not at the connector end.
B

I think the main issue is continuous careful examination of lines no matter how the ends are terminated. At our field we routinely take two flights for each turn on the circle. I walk out to the handle with the lines between my fingers on each flight and if I feel anything suspicious I check it out before I take off. When I return my ship to the pits I judiciously clean my lines with alcohol on a clean rag. Careful monitoring of the condition of my lines is a basic part of pre-flight inspection and post-flight maintenance and I hope no one has to lose an airplane before deciding to adopt a similar routine.

Kelvin --

The Big, Strong, Handsome Wife and I made another set today. She made a couple of improvements:

* Cut a coat hanger in half. Bend "ears" on the half to use as a handle. Slip the eyelet over the coat hanger handle and it is easier to hold.

* Use 24 ga. hobby wire for wrapping. She had some stashed away, and it works well.

The whole drill is:

1. Slip the eyelet over the coat hanger.
2. Using all four hands, make a double wrap around the eyelet.
3. Cut off a foot of 24 gauge copper (forget waste).
4. Let BSHW hold the lines taut and make three wraps of the copper around the lines, about 1/4" from the eyelet. Leave the short end of the copper with 2" of loose wire.
5. Wrap down (away from the eyelet) a little, then use needle nose to slide the copper wrap towards the eyelet.
6. Wrap the short end of the copper up flush to the eyelet, then clip it off.
7. Wrap the long end down so the total copper topper is about 1/2" inch.
8. Bend the CL cable back over the copper wrap.
9. Wrap the copper back towards the eyelet so it is a solid two layers thick with no gaps.

Can I borrow your wife for the weekend? She really has the right spirit for this business. Mine says, "You want me to do what????"
I've been using some 28G brass craft shop wire I had around. I'll try the coat hanger trick, I like that.
Thanks,
Kelvin

>Kelvin --
>
>The Big, Strong, Handsome Wife and
>I made another set today.
>She made a couple of
>improvements:
>
> *
>Cut a coat hanger in
>half. Bend "ears" on the
>half to use as a
>handle. Slip the eyelet over
>the coat hanger handle and
>it is easier to hold.
>
>
> *
>Use 24 ga. hobby wire
>for wrapping. She had some
>stashed away, and it works
>well.
>
>The whole drill is:
>
> 1.
>Slip the eyelet over the
>coat hanger.
> 2.
>Using all four hands, make
>a double wrap around the
>eyelet.
> 3.
>Cut off a foot of
>24 gauge copper (forget waste).
>
> 4.
>Let BSHW hold the lines
>taut and make three wraps
>of the copper around the
>lines, about 1/4" from the
>eyelet. Leave the short end
>of the copper with 2"
>of loose wire.
> 5.
>Wrap down (away from the
>eyelet) a little, then use
>needle nose to slide the
>copper wrap towards the eyelet.
>
> 6.
>Wrap the short end of
>the copper up flush to
>the eyelet, then clip it
>off.
> 7.
>Wrap the long end down
>so the total copper topper
>is about 1/2" inch.
> 8.
>Bend the CL cable back
>over the copper wrap.
> 9.
>Wrap the copper back towards
>the eyelet so it is
>a solid two layers thick
>with no gaps.
>
>Larry F

Modify # 6. Do not clip off the short wire.

#10. Twist end of short and long wire together, clip off excess.

Jim --

I like your way better and will do it that way next time.

Kelvin --

No weekend visits. BSHW loves me (fool) and won't dally with other modelers. She's right fond of the way I build.

I want to report that I whipped up a jig along the lines of Jim T's (using some 2x4 scraps), got some 24g copper (though I later found some that had been on the wall all along), and wrapped away. I twisted the ends of the copper wrap wire together, tucked them in and sealed with a drop of medium Zap. They aren't works of art yet, but I flew the lines several times without problems. Thanks, gentlemen. Now I'm gonna order some lines from Tom Morris......

Incidentally, would anyone be interested in .008 solids? I'm getting in a HUGE amount of .008 single strand wire (304 Stainless). It's legal to use in Stunt up to .15s, and might be interesting to use on 1/2-As. I'll bring it to the Nats, and sell it real cheap per set (you'll have to bring a spool and do the measuring). I'll also have .012, .015 and .018 7 strand wire for sale.

I might be getting more than one spool of the .008 solids - if so, I'll sell off one or two of the spools (again, real cheap) if anyone wants to get into the business.