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LA/FP-25 questions for Leonard

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DJMalott · Apr 12, 2001 12:37 PM

#0 source
Leonard,

I just cleaned and reassembled the LA 25, and I notice some little differences. It has just two bypass ports, and I don't remember for sure from yesterday, but I think the FP has more than two. They eliminated two head screws, but they did go up to 3mm on them. The crankshaft counterweight is different...not as much material machined away. And of course, the plastic backplate with no gasket. The LA is new, so the rod was a snap to remove and reinstall. The one on the FP was really tight on the pin, but I got it loosened up nicely.

Questions: The LA uses a thin steel shim/spacer/washer/seal behind the drive washer. Am I missing that part on the FP, or did O.S. not use one on the FP. I miked the head gasket on the LA at .015". I didn't mike the FP gasket; is it the same?

Denny Malott

The Kiwi · Apr 12, 2001 01:20 PM

#1 source
(Hmmm? Would one of two answers from someone other than Leonard be OK, Denny?)

Fact is, for about 20 years or so there has been a separate thin thrust washer behind the drive washer on OS engines. I have a 1993 OS publication containing "Exploded Views" with parts numbers for all of the engines available at that time, plus quite a lot of other engines that hadn't been discontinued for very long.

The FP25-S picture shows that separate thrust washer, and so does the regular RC 25 FP drawing. All of my "F" series OS Schneurle BB engines have had that extra item also (21, 25, 28, 32).


K.

~

DJMalott · Apr 12, 2001 03:11 PM

LA/FP-25 questions for Leonard or Kiwi#3 source
>(Hmmm? Would one of two answers from someone other than Leonard be OK, Denny?)

Thanks for the answer, Bill. Leonard and I had been talking by phone yesterday, about the 25's. I have a used FP and a new LA, and I'm mounting them on Russian (GRS) FAI combat wings. But first, I thought it would be a good idea to tear them down for cleaning.

Now for a followup question.

Are the FP40 shafts, and hence the thin drive washers, the same diameter? I have a used FP40 around here somewhere, and if they're the same, I'll hunt it up and scavenge the washer. That's assuming the 40's is not missing, as well.

Denny Malott

LNeumann · Apr 12, 2001 03:09 PM

#2 source
Yes, that washer is called a thrust washer, and as "K" said, they have been on all OS engines for many years. Tower lists these at $1.89 discounted, but OS parts are high. You can get the thrust washer for the Tower 40, part number LXJB45 for 99 cents and Tower will ship it to you at no cost for shipping which they do for parts for Tower engines, only. And, since the LA and FP series use the same crankshaft diameter for .20-40 (.46 on the LA) engines, the Tower 40 part will fit on your FP.

The first LA engines had three bypasses as on the FP. They went to two bypasses on the 46 LA and on all later versions of the other sizes as well. Was it another cost saving measure, or was it, as OS says, because they got higher rpm from the engine without the boost port??? The boost port, the one opposite the exhaust, was added to the Schnurle design boost the high end rpm. I block it off to boost the low end torque at the expense of the high end rpm which we don't want or need. I don't think you can have it both ways unless you also then change the timing on the sleeve. So, and without measuring we can't tell, I do wonder if the timing has now been changed on these engines as well.

The early versions of the FP engines had fully machined from barstock crankshafts. And then they went to skipping a couple of the machining operations which certainly did NOT improve the quality of the engines. Then, with the LA series, they went to a cast crankshaft with only a couple of machining operations. They used this same crank on the last run of FP engines and it kept the FP number with the LA series. This is not an improvement. The liners on the first LA engines had extremely poor plating. This they have corrected with later models, but there were a few FP engines that used the same technique as well. I shipped a number of them back as unacceptable. One thing you may not have noticed is how thin the liner is on the LA. This has only one word of explaination: "COST". Brass costs more than aluminum. So they use more aluminum in the case which also has a word connected with it: "heavy". You should probably put washers behind the heads of the screws that hold the back plate on. Otherwise, these are going to dig in and the back plate will work itself loose. Then you will tighten it up and, with the head digging into the back plate, run out of threads in the case and strip the case. Not good.

Not good.

Leonard Neumann

Larry F · Apr 12, 2001 03:11 PM

#4 source
Denny --

You are obviously doing better at "playing well with others".
Rumor has it you are now "running with scissors".

Larry F

DJMalott · Apr 12, 2001 03:18 PM

RE: LA/FP-25 questions for one and all.#5 source
Larry, I am NOT doing better at playing well with others...AM NOT...AM NOT...AM NOT! Yeah, I do run with scissors, but my wife only lets me have the ones with the round ends. Running with them keeps me from eating so much paste.

Leonard, as you were typing your reply to me, I was typing mine to Kiwi. Thanks, everybody, Larry included.

"Doesn't play well with others"
"Does run with scissors"
"Does eat a little paste"
"Still bites Ambroid off his fingers"

Denny Malott

denlip · Apr 12, 2001 03:37 PM

#6 source
An interesting tidbit of info for the 46LA. According to a repudable source in the trade the first 46LA with the boost port was out turnning the 46FX. This is not a good thing to have your cheap motor doing this. Leonard laments the cheapness of the LA series and with a certain justification on his part. However, I imagine that OS has it's back to the Wall in trying to compete with the Chinese engine Industry which can and has flooded the market with a variety of really substandard but cheap motors.
The OS booklet that comes with the LA gives good advice on fuel and oil content but you cannot regulate what the consumer buys so he buys a bargan fuel and fries the motor and it's junk. So perhaps that explains why the motor is such a minimal example from OS. It's a shame really that most of the major motor manufactures have been destroyed by the Chinese invasion. One bright spot is Thunder Tigre, yes it's Chinese but it has been consistantly upgrading it's quality to the point that many of their motors are superb today
The few LA's that I've run or been exposed to haven't been really stellar when new but with Fox Super Fuel and a little patience and care with the needle valve they should be adequate motors

Steve Helmick · Apr 12, 2001 10:54 PM

#7 source
LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-01 AT 11:06 PM (EST)

Thunder Tigers, Tower's and MECOA's are not Chinese, they are from Taiwan. I sure don't see anything wrong with Magnums, and the ASP .53 I just got from Leonard (no, Leonard, I haven't taken it all apart!). They're made in China. GMS engines are available from MECOA also, and they are made in Hong Kong, now part of the mainland. Hope this lessens any possible (!) confusion. Does anybody know for sure what the blue finish is on the LA's? Paint, powdercoat, other? If they are trying to save nickles on the cost of the engine, why would they do this? Does it cover up flawed castings? It cannot aid in cooling, that's for sure. I plan to glass bead my .46 LA. Model engines should not be blue, nor should they have purple anodized cylinder heads. Leonard is very correct about the .46 LA sleeve being super thin, but so is the Magnum/ASP .53. I think they are just making the engine as large as possible with the basic casting, but I sure don't like the 4 head bolts or the heavy "weedeater styling". Steve