plane for .12

Hi
A friend just aquired a .12 and needs a plane for it, anyone know a good wing size,nose and tail moments for this size engine?
Thanks
DW

Nose and tail moments are going to vary with the type of plane and even engine. Same with wing. As noted on another board where you posted the same question, we need to know which .12. there can be a vast difference between engines of the same size, although I would guess this is an older, perhaps, milder engine.

If it is just a matter of you wanting to put a particular engine in a plane because you just want to see that engine fly again, that is one thing. Otherwise it is really better to determine the size of plane you really want or need and then get a suitable engine to run it. If cost is a problem, which it is for many people, there are good, inexpensive, used engines in most sizes readily available, and a lot of people using this board are flying with just that kind of equipment.

It may not win the Nats, but for just plain enjoyment, it suits their needs just fine.

LAST EDITED ON Apr-26-01 AT 11:51 PM (EST)

DW > A friend just aquired a .12 and needs a plane for it

The only 12's I'm familar with are relatively expensive BB-shaft Schneurle types optimized for very high rpm's in RC road racing. The horsepower figures bandied about seem pretty extreme, but some of these machines are using a direct Nitrous Oxide boost to run on, so maybe the large numbers are based on boosted operation.

(Note: there are so many modern .12's being made for cars that I more or less ignored the old ".11" size that probably more or less led to the choice of roughly 2 cc's for one of the Gas Car sizes - so few of those were imported over the years, and now it seems that the car people have embraced the internet with both arms. eBay is literally FLOODED with stuff for RC cars in the Hobby auctions! The OS .12's seem to be 2.1 cc sizes instead of 2.0, also.)

I haven't had occasion to play with any of these (new) screamers myself, although I am somewhat interested. Thus far, the high buy-in cost is discouraging me from experimenting (new comment added in edit on 4-26: if the deal goes through, I just won an eBay auction for a new, never used "CV-A," which is an airplane-head version of a very hot OS Max .12, at an extremely reasonable amount). Based on some experience with 21's from the same Car Racing environment, however, we can rank the .12 with older engines close to twice its displacement, such as baffle 25's.

It should have the power to handle planes intended for the 19-29 displacements among old type engines, such as Skyray 35's, Super Clowns, Veco Tomahawk II's, etc. These buggy engines are so much heavier than any of the engines that the "Junior" size kit planes were designed around that you'd need entire new scratchbuilt fuselages to use any of those wings, and then the results would probably be overweight *and* over- speedy (most likely).

Even in NW Clown Racing, the result would be an extremely nose- heavy plane for moving through any traffic, unless you added a veritable ton of tail weight!

P.S. A major part of the extra weight and bulk of the Buggy type 12's, 15's, and 21's is a very large "heat sink" cylinder head, which is needed because there isn't much airflow around a buggy engine. For the OS brand 21's, one of the currently produced FP 20 heads is a bolt-on replacement (but the buggy head bolts were too long and needed to be replaced on the 21's I found). So it does seem possible that there may be a .10 or .15 size "airplane head" available that will swap onto the .12 referred to here and save some of that weight, and a huge amount of the excess bulk.

The K.

In case the engine in question is a normal 2cc engine (such as an MVVS diesel) I would say a Brodak Flite Streak Jr. or a SIG Akromaster would be good.
George

Hi guys
Sorry I havent been around in a while busy busy, anywho the engine in qestion turned out to be of all things a Toro! It has a pull starter on the back witch prety much renders it useless for airplanes but thanks so much the intrest and replies.
Dwayne

> ... It has a pull starter on the back
> ... useless for airplanes but thanks

If it was an OS, Traxxas, or Thunder Tiger, the backplates are interchangeable with similar models of engines that have no pull starter or other rear end attachments. The CZ-A that I have has the same crankcase as some buggy and helicopter style models with pull starters, so it could be converted.

K.

OK, airplane folks, the version of the car motor with an airplane head has arrived for examination, at least. I need new clamps for my test stand, so I can't run it yet.

But something just happened that I haven't experienced in a very long time, and my typing is suffering some as a result! The .12 arrived dried out, and difficult to turn over. Looking for a can of sewing machine oil I used to keep as a very light weight oil and substitute for WD40, I picked up my Norton Sharpening Stone Oil, thinking it was fairly light.

The little engine seemed to be loosening up nicely; I had bolted on an old Power Prop 7-4 with a 15 cent price tag still attached, and was flipping the prop with one finger, cupping the engine in my left hand. The reason I don't use WD40 didn't rise out of knowledge that there was a gummy residue left behind after all of the oils evaporated, but because the solvents in the mix would ignite without benefit of a glow plug. That can be surprising, and potentially dangerous.

I don't know what is mixed into sharpening oil, but I just may lose a fingernail, because it exploded diesel fashion and whipped the prop around into the root of my fingernail in a rather ferocious manner! This little critter has very high compression and resists turning over strongly for an engine its size. Most likely, I'll need 6-3's for it instead of 7-4's, though.

Dwayne, did your friend with the .12 ever come back to town?

Kiwi

Kiwi,
I'm not sure what's in Norton sharpening oil. I usually use, Smith's, Remington, Buck, or Smoky Mountain Knife Works sharpening oil. Some use a mixture of kerosene and machine oil.
In any case, the properties built into sharpening oil is to prevent particles from getting imbedded in the sharpening stone while allowing the metal (blade) to be worn down by the stone. Since it's purpose is to ALLOW friction, you might want to flush it out after the parts are freed.
Perhaps you already know all of this, but someone who doesn't use much sharpening oil might not.
Good luck with your new .12. Keep us posted.
George

I just now read this note, curious as what the heck an .11 or .12 was. I have heard of .09, .14, .15 etc and even owned a few, but never even saw an .11 or .12. Now I know why. As to Bucks sharpening oil, I was using some to sharpen my #11 blades and it says on the can "do not use for lubrication". I use WD-40 initially to loosen up old engines, then fresh fuel. It will dissolve the gum from the old castor, won't hurt the engine, and will burn out when you start the engine. Of course with the very high price of fuel, I don't use much, just enough to loosen up the gum and varnish. When I was twisting wrenches for a living a few years back, one of the ways we would get a car into the bay with fuel problems or had the tank removed, was to spray WD-40 or carb cleaner into the carb or throttle body or intake manifold and the engine would run on those until it was in the bay. We fed it through a long fuel hose. So WD-40 is very combustible in an internal combustion engine 2 or 4 stroke cycle.

BB...,

The .11/.12 size engines are more popular outside the US for the 2cc class events. I think they run FF competition for this class. I don't know what else.
Can someone else shed light on this class?