How to entice new blood into control lin

Tonight, I flew the Primary Force at our local park in a small community, Kingston,Wa. It was an elementary school when I was a kid and it is there I learned to fly the pattern with the proverbial ringmaster fox35 combo on a dirt hardpan and rock filled field back in 1954. Now it is nicely grassed over a sand and loamy base soil with no rocks and the parks department was gracious enough to allow me to fly there and to mow the grass for a takeoff strip provided it is no shorter than 2 inches. What a blessing to fly on a prepared and manicured turf supplied with our tax dollars. All I did was talk to the maintenance manager for site schedules, indicated my intentions and purpose and permission was granted.

Well, while flying, a young fella came by as we have all experienced and a conversation was struck up and we chatted between flights, (about 4) and then we parted.

It has struck me that we should carry a 1/2 a something or other or another suitable plane in our stable to take to the field every time so we can take the opportunity to entice young people into the sport. If I had a plane we would still be at the field.

What is your experience with this and do you think it is worthwhile and/or are we too self centered and focused on our own achievements and advancement not to participate in this or similar ideas?

Last year was my re-introduction into competition flying and I can count on one hand the young men, (under 18) that I have seen. This is a dying hobby from my perspective from counting all the grey hairs and beards in the bunch.

Bob Smiley
A Lancair 360 builder/flyer trying to be a modeler

I think the idea of having a trainer along if you fly in a public place is an excellent idea. Best if there are at least two of you; one to launch the airplane, the other to hold the new flyer's hand for a bit, and take back over if the dizzies set in.

I'm beginning to wonder whether, instead of building up a couple or three of the conventional trainers (I have three Guillows and one of my own design), we should be using RTF's and ARF's like the Bratco airplanes or a Ukie. Maybe that is the way to go with the interested spectator, rather than telling them about how they have to build their own and order supplies by mail. Maybe we ought to point Newbies in the RTF direction and hope they recover later on.

Jim, that was and is the general purpose of an ARF and it's real value is that you can have a large number of interested individuals try it and see if they like it. Fun without pain.
You get to have new members by having a large number of people sample your wares, not everyone will stay but a few will. Hasn't it always been that way. Dennis

I agree with Jim. ARF's are a sure way to get a kid interested. I am waiting for the Top Flite Flight Streak to come out. I'd like to get two for my niece and nephew.

My brother-in-law has been bugging me to organize a once a week model building for 7-12 year olds. He has a Gymnastics studio and can sublease a room to me. He swears the parents will pay for something like that.

Steven Yampolsky

"You know the world has gone crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the Swiss hold the America's Cup, France is accusing the U.S. of arrogance, and Germany doesn't want to go to war."

>Last year was my re-introduction into competition flying and
>I can count on one hand the young men, (under 18) that I
>have seen. This is a dying hobby from my perspective from
>counting all the grey hairs and beards in the bunch.
>
>Bob Smiley
>A Lancair 360 builder/flyer trying to be a modeler

Bob, youre idea has merit for introducing new people to the hobby, but just because they had a chance to hold the stick doesn't mean they will take to the hobby. And I would hope that you would have someone at the field with you launching your plane so that you can go to the center and hold the newbie's hand while he takes to flight for the first time. This is not something were you hand them the stick and let them go at it.

However, you comments about this being a dying hobby because of the lack of pre 18 flyers at a contest, I believe, is without merit. As I have often stated, you need someone with the ability (to teach) the desire (time) and financing (willingness to spend money on the kid) to sponsor the youngster or he will never be a part of it at that age. In the same vein we could then say that RC flying or amateur radio or home built airplanes (like your Lancair) is a dying sport because you don't see many under 18 participating. Mist kids that age don't have anyone helping them (teaching them) supporting them (driving them to and from the flying fields and contests), or funding them. And there are so many other things tugging at them from outside.

I started into model airplanes before I was in high school. I was a "stay at home" kid. I had a paper route where I delivered papers on a bicycle. I built "Stick and tissue" rubber powered planes that cost a dime. Big money, but, once in a while I "splurged". When I went into powered planes I got a Scientific kit (Li'l Devil) that cost $1.50 and an engine I had to assemble myself (OK Cub .049). That cost me almost $4.00--a lot of money to me in those days. Paint was one color of dope. No base coats, no clear coats. I couldn't afford all that. And I might add I didn't have a computer in those days, no remote control cars you get at Radio Shack. We didn't even have a television. So I had the time, and the opportunity, and there were a couple of others around who helped. (When in high school I flew combat with the principal in a neighboring high school. Didn't you always wish you could "kill" the principal?) But by then I had a real job.

First I mowed lawns for a dollar an hour. But I bought my own mower and paid for it through the mowing jobs that I got. I was always fascinated with radio and read up on everything I could find. By the time I started my junior year in high school I got a "real job" as the bench repair man in the local TV shop. I worked after schools till 6 and all day on Saturdays. I earned my own money to pay for my "hobbies" and even put money away for college. (In fact, I continued to work in this TV shop during vacations and every summer for the first 6 years I was in college. Oh, yes, I also started my own repair shop in my dorm room, but that is another story.)

What I am trying to say is, I had to earn the money I spent. Today's kids want Mama to fund it. They want the ARF so they don't have to build it. If it crashes on the first flight they want her to buy another. They won't know how to fix it. And if they don't have a mentor, they won't stay.

And even if they do stay, even if they learn to build and to fly, will lthey have the time, dedication, and means to accomplish all this before they are 18? (I only went to one contest before I was 18--came in second--but it was only because the neighboring principal was willing to take me.)

That's why you don't and won't see many youngsters at our contests. But that doesn't mean it is a dying hobby any more than it was when I started out. I don't believe the kids are the lifeblood of this hobby, any more than they are for radio control airplanes, amateur radio, or home built real airplanes. For the most part the newcomers are going to come later in life. Only they can afford it financially and time-wise.

Still, I would commend you with the thought of bringing a simply 1/2A plane to the field and offering to teach a youngster who shows up. I would encourage you to take someone up in your "real" airplane and show him the controls. That, too, was a goal of mine--to own and fly a "real" airplane. But I had to wait until I was out of college and I could "afford" the $1400 it cost me to buy my first tail dragger and learn to fly. (And by the way, you don't see a lot of people learning to fly these days, either, because of cost. When I totaled up the cost of buying my first airplane, gas, oil, maintenance, instructor cost, etc., and then sold it afterwards I found out I had made $27 learning to fly. You don't do that too much these days, either.)

In the little we have done so far with the Stanzel Museum, we have required that the kid be accompanied by a responsible adult. Two reasons for this; First, the kid is going to need the support of an adult to participate on his own. Secondly, the responsible adult is a potential convert; a twofer, so to speak. You can think of some other concerns as well, I'm sure.

Unfortunately very few of our youth today build the skills in childhood that allow them the luxury of building a model airplane, or anything else for that matter! RTF's are of course an answer to that difficulty, unfortunately it is RTF's that, in my opinion, have ruined the hobby to begin with. How many of us began in this hobby by buying and attempting to fly one of the Cox airplanes? You know...the one that always says "For eight years and older." So you buy it thinking "Hey, if an eight year old is supposed to be able to fly it, why can't I?" Yeah right....it crashes first flight because its a lead sled and you think if an eight year old is supposed to be able to fly it and you can't, you must be nineteen thumbs and not cut out for this hobby. Luckily todays RTF's are much better and actually fly! I gave up for at least five years before trying again! Luckily I found some guys that were willing to help and teach me. This is the essential ingredient. Mentors. People willing to go that little extra mile for a young person that is willing to learn. If you have to, teach them how to make extra money (get them to mow your lawn in trade for a 1/2A kit) so they can afford the hobby. Kids today are at a deficit because of different learned skills than we "older" modelors. Yes, most of them have everything bought for them by mom....so what? They are still just kids, they need a mentor to nurture that modelor in them. Don't be afraid to have one in your basement. I have more darn kids down here than I work with during the day! LOL I have virtually given away every 1/2A kit and engine I have ever owned, and some fifteen size ones as well....I draw the line at bigger! No I haven't got huge numbers into the hobby, but I have got some and thats what its all about. I only wish I had more stuff to give away! Come on guys, the only way to get more is to give more; all it takes is time and a lot of fun!

Leonard,

I cannot believe what you said about starting out in the hobby. It is like DeJa Vu. I too had a paper route and funded the hobby with odd jobs and enterprenureal activities. Yep, gillows stick and paper models on the high shelf I could not reach in the Poulsbo variety store. 25 cent models, Fokker D7 was number one. built, papered, painted with red and black enamel and given to grandma. She gave it back to me several years later. The big dream was to buy the 50 cent models. Eventually came. Mentors in the hobby??? There were none. I taught myself. However, I had parents who encourage sis and I to finish cleaning our room and doing our chores before we could play and "anything worth doing is worth doing well", "always finish your task" and that kind of stuff. So youth need to be taught other things besides modeling.

I do believe that teaching, the great profession it is, can be accomplished by us through modeling, or any other activity or sport.

Yes, the first powered plane was a scientific Ryan ST with the proverbial OK Cub .049. First loop and inverted was the American Boy. That was tough. Getting upright was done with a inverted wingover. (last half of the reverse wingover). Eventually on to other things.

I agree, two adults, one good trainer plane, lots of attention to the kids and get them involved.

A probable other reason other than money and mentors lacking in the recruitment of young blood is the present times with many other new choices and easily available products. RTFs, ARFs is years ago you couldn't buy the stuff. The period in the early 50's was very soon after the war. Resources were being directed to building up the housing supply, freeways, construction, consumer goods etc. We were a nation of building and creating. Engineers, Architects, planners, slide rule types.... Remember the slide rule? We were programmed to a greater degree to the sciences, engineering and creating in those days.

I bought the Plastic Fantastic kit which has two 1/2A planes. They look to be pretty much indestructable and from what I have heard they fly quite well. My grandkids and I will put them together and go out into a soft pasture with some deep grass and go to it. Those Fantastics would be a easy pack along to take to the field for the bystanders. They take up no space. Remember how cool it was to put a streamer on the back of your plane. Oh to experience that original excitement again. The excitement of discovery of something new.

The field mentiond above in the first posting is quite interesting. Yesterday while flying the Excaliber (Trimming it out), a man came by and we talked. He builds 1/2a controline models. In fact the whole extended family does and every summer, they get together for a reunion and the guys fly combat. The women aren't too excited about that stuff. They like to talk and visit like all women do but us men have to focus attention on things and usually motors and stuff like that to get our socialization. I guess that is why women say on average about two to three times as many words per day as men. Anyway, we had a good visit and exchanged addresses and will swap pictures of planes.

It appears that through communication, sharing and encouraging others is the way to support and grow the sport.

Bob Smiley
A Lancair 360 builder/flyer trying to be a modeler

It was pretty much the same start for me, and I often wonder if there really is a difference for kids today. Do they really shun this kind of thing now, or are there just so many other choices of perhaps equal merit, like rock climbing or building robots or whatnot? The Playstation culture can be blamed, but I think the bigger reason is the mentor aspect mentioned earlier. It's really hard to get anywhere with model airplanes unless you have an adult to help. And the Cox models turned off a lot of kids over the past three decades... kids who are now parents considering what their kids might enjoy doing. Tell most 30 to 40 year olds about control line planes and they'll say, "Oh yeah, I got one of those for my 10th birthday. Crashed it the first day / never could get it to run / broke the tail thing off..." Buy one of those old toys for their kid? Um... no thanks.

I got interested in models at age 12. I saw a dusty Ringmaster Jr. hanging from the ceiling when visiting friends of my parents, and I begged to see it fly. After that I had to have one, so I got the requisite two paper routes (morning and afternoon, different papers), bought my first kit (Flite Streak Jr., I think) at Floyd's Sporting Goods on Greenwood Avenue. A friend of a friend said his uncle had an old plane with a Fox .35 in his basement... I bought that for $10, and now I had a fleet. I got a job at another hobby shop (I was still under 14 but drawing a paycheck at Webster Supply, cleaning up at night and later clerking). I met some of the local combat fliers who would come in from time to time.

I had a few mentors... one in particular (Don) who still flies up at Arlington occasionally, never competes. I would go off with Don for entire days (to Marymoor Park in Redmond, or Carkeek Park in Seattle, or to remote schoolyards), returning late at night stinking of castor oil and dragging in bartered airplane junk, or stuff I had hauled out of the trash can at the field. To my parents, Don was probably just an oddball in stained overalls (he owned a wrecking yard) who drove battered old cars. (Maybe a good thing they didn't meet Dirty Dan or the "Patience My Ass, I'm gonna Kill Something" guy (the "early Phil") pictured in another posting... at least until a bit later )

Rambling comments... Bob, thanks for triggering the memories. Now, can I beg a ride in that Lancair? I just gotta have one.

>It was pretty much the same start for me, and I often wonder
>if there really is a difference for kids today. Do they
>really shun this kind of thing now, or are there just so
>many other choices of perhaps equal merit, like rock
>climbing or building robots or whatnot? The Playstation
>culture can be blamed, but I think the bigger reason is the
>mentor aspect mentioned earlier. It's really hard to get
>anywhere with model airplanes unless you have an adult to
>help.

Indeed. I always wanted to fly when I was a kid, but I couldn't because I couldn't get a ride. My modeling really took off when I got my driver's license and could go by myself.

I'm about the right age to have friends with kids the right age for model airplanes/rockets. But whenever I mention that their kids might enjoy it, they treat the idea like I suggested burning down the old folks home, or worse! They are shocked that I would suggest that their kids spend time building something with their own hands, or go out flying models. I get the distinct impression that they consider it "beneath" them - although they at least seem to have some minimal repsect for me. Maybe it's me, maybe it's the culture, I don't know, but I have had exactly 0 luck getting anyone involved.

> Indeed. I always wanted to fly when I was a kid, but I
>couldn't because I couldn't get a ride. My modeling really
>took off when I got my driver's license and could go by
>myself.
>
> I'm about the right age to have friends with kids the
>right age for model airplanes/rockets. But whenever I
>mention that their kids might enjoy it, they treat the idea
>like I suggested burning down the old folks home, or worse!
>They are shocked that I would suggest that their kids spend
>time building something with their own hands, or go out
>flying models. I get the distinct impression that they
>consider it "beneath" them - although they at least seem to
>have some minimal repsect for me. Maybe it's me, maybe it's
>the culture, I don't know, but I have had exactly 0 luck
>getting anyone involved.

Same experience here but I have a girlfriend with sons aged 10 and 16. I havent pushed the building issue just yet but she agrees that it is desireable that they learn a little if for no other reason than they gain some about creativity, using tools and some scientific method. The younger one hacked up a bunch of old wood I gave him with an Xacto and some Ambroid of his very own. In general he just enjoyed the attention of an adult male that would spend some time with him doing something fun.

The kids got some RC stick time and were real enthused. We built some hand launch gliders this winter and they enjoyed that. Just got a 1/2 A back together so we can play with that as well. Also plan to bring them to a few contests this summer. Most of all I want them to see that this is good clean fun, that my friends are really a great bunch of guys and that competition can be a gentelmanly affair. Mostly, I think that if they see that I and my friends are having so much fun they will gravitate toward it. Modeling and the guys within have become a refuge as well as a home from the rest of the world for me. When I was a kid and yet to have acquired any building skills, I still had fun piddling and hacking up balsa. It took some time and I learned a bit sooner than some but still did not become a competitor until I was 32. Planting the seeds will yeild us some pay dirt over time I think. Those that get proficient early have parents that foster the interest.