Mike Palko's electric stunter

LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-03 AT 06:02 PM (CDT)
 
Unfortunately Dan Banjok doesn't do the net. Maybe Bob Zambelli can talk about this. I arrived late to Brodak and missed the flight. I heard he did the pattern with voom and zoom. I'm out of Philly for the next week, if no one else says anything, I'll get an update when i'm home. (Probably see it do its thing at our local field.) Maybe it's a quiet revolution. But yeah doesn't Mike Palko's electric plane deserve discussion and a look.

Could also fly that in doors during the long winter months.

I saw it fly at Brodaks and it was awesome. It did the pattern as well as a glow plane does. I think he said he have an AXI brushless motor on it with 10 cells. I fly electric RC planes, but never tried an electric CL yet.

I saw it fly too, and it was SUPER COOL! I believe he did every maneuver, but not necessarily in the right order or correct number of them, as I didn't see the takeoff. I was curious myself as to the run time as it's configured. Flew every bit as well as a glow plane. As for indoors, it was on regular 60' lines I think, so would only be better indoors since it isn't noisy, still a fairly large plane, flying at regular speeds, probably around normal weight.

Drew a very large crowd of onlookers when he landed, surely someone here was in that group asking questions and could tell more.

I attended an R/C electric meet last weekend in Andersonville, GA (it is called SEFF) and was amazed at the progress the electrics have made. (I was also amazed at how much $$ I dropped there....) With the new brushless motors (like the AXI which swings a big prop with no gearbox!) and the new lithium-poly batteries, there is nothing an internal combustion plane can do that an electric cannot do at least as well (at least R/C anyway). The biggest problem is that the brushless motors and lithium batteries are relatively expensive. Call it $80-100 for the motor and about the same or a little more for the batteries, it does get a little pricey. But the brushless motors almost never wear out and the batteries last a long time. Horizon Hobbies is going to start handling Thunder Power Li-poly batteries and for the first time a larger distribution network will have them Should bring the price down eventually. I suspect with the right setup, a full pattern could be done and done well.

>I saw it fly at Brodaks and it was awesome. It did the
>pattern as well as a glow plane does. I think he said he
>have an AXI brushless motor on it with 10 cells. I fly
>electric RC planes, but never tried an electric CL yet.

I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to talk Keith Shaw into working with me to develop electric CL sport/stunt models. Glad to see that somebody is making progress! Does this model have motor speed control, or at least on/off?

I caught a flight and timed it from start to end. It ended up being just a hair over 5 minutes with a good deal of stunts during that time. He did not do a complete pattern and seemed to perform more of the rounded maneuvers than those with tight corners. I overheard that the initial problems were with current draw during periods of high load that really limited flight times.

Seems to me that if the electric stuff were to catch on, a deviation from the current pattern might be a good idea to make sure that the airplanes can complete the specified maneuvers. As long as everyone is doing the same thing it will be interesting.

Will say that it was quiet, but certainly not silent. Guess there is a bit of noise generated by the propeller alone. I hope that he continues to develop this flying option.

SUPER COOL
man i want one
i think it is a twister but not positive

he uses a ztron to control the motor to give it a little more juice towards the end of the flight or something along those lines

i think windy taped it and some info about it so u may want to try to get that tape for an in depth look.

I'd like to see someone adapt the new Park Flier power trains for indoor/no wind CL. This is the cheap way to go with electrics - I envision something pretty lightweight (4-5 oz) flown indoors using lightweight Spectra lines. Perhaps no more than 30 foot lines.

I've experimented with electric a couple times with the following observations:
1) Use a fuse or you will burn up the motor when it hits the ground.
2) A speed controller is really needed for control line. The motor/battery gives a fixed power, so any maneuvers slow the plane down a lot. That means that square corners make the motor slow down a lot and draw horrendous amps. We would really need a controller that keeps the motor spinning at a constant speed by adjusting the voltage. Sort of a programmed 4/2 break.
3) Lithium polymer batteries are a must. NiMH can't provide enough current, and NiCad are too heavy. Make sure you have the right kind of charger. LiPoly batteries die very quickly if the voltage goes up too much during charging. At $100 a pop for batteries it could get expensive.
4) If you don't want to spend a lot on batteries, shoot for a high voltage/low amp set up. I got a car type motor with a gear reducer to spin a 10/7 prop for 3 minutes at 9000 rpm- more than enough to fly a plane pretty well. 10 NiMH cells to keep the amps under 20 and not fry the commutator or overheat the batteries.

Hi guys, I hope some of you got to see the ELECTRIC TWISTER fly at the GSCB contest this past weekend! If not windy has three flights on tape. The setup/airplane i am currently flying is just a test bed. I am currently designing a new stunter with a lot of improvements and trying to improve the power system. Windy is also designing a stunter of his own. He is working with Sergio Zegras working on some electronics for ELECTRIC C/L so i/we can get rid of the Z-TRON glitch!

I saw Mike's Twister fly at GSCB and I was impressed- not that it is a barn-burner stunter, but that he has put together a workable, USABLE, CL sport electric. It's a 45 oz. modified Twister. I guess an AVI outrunner style brushless motor, a 10 cell NiMh battery controlled by a standard brushless controller and a Z tron to turn it off and on. It is about equivalent to a weak Stunt 35.

The plane flies just fine, does nice stunts, and appeared to be really flying, not just barely making it through the maneuvers. The brushless motor does a great job of keeping constant RPM, as opposed to my experiments with a standard DC motor. A couple of key things, besides the brushless setup- you have to use Sanyo 3300 NiMH batteries. Apparently nobody else's batteries can deliver enough current reliably. They gave him 5 minutes of useable power, which was just enough to do a complete pattern and a pretty quick speed. Also, somewhat shorter lines, maybe 55 ft or so, and solids to boot to keep down drag. The battery can be offset for tipweight as needed.

Get a cheap 3 channel car radio and use it to run the brushless controller through a battery eliminator circuit. that would work better than the Ztron. Maybe even 12 cells to allow more watts without hugh amp draw, and start experimenting with props. Plus a little streamlining by building everything into a fuselage would help!

Designing a current sensing regulator wouldn't be that difficult. It should shut down if the prop stops but give a little boost when the motor is under load, like in a sharp corner. Piece of cake...

To All:

Don't want to dump on anybody's parade, especially as I would like very much to see successful electric CL models, but some of the comments in this thread mirror the credibility problems which have existed in electric models of all sorts for many years.

We start off with the model doing the pattern with voom and zoom. Uh, that would indicate the entire pattern, would it not?

Then someone says it was awesome. Did the pattern as well as a glow plane does. Again, full pattern? And exactly which glow plane is used for the comparison?

Toss in a comparison to RC models and the patently untrue statement that the electrics are fully equal to glow motors. Jeez, I might not fly a lot of RC lately, but I'm still in touch. For example, Bob Benjamin is a heavy-hitter in the electric RC Scale stuff. Way back when I made the introductions which resulted in Bob painting a whole bunch of Model Builder covers. And I still see him at least twice a year to hear his once-every-six-months plea of how much better electrics are today than, say, eight years ago when he was saying then-current electrics were soooo much better than two years previous.

(Several times I have told Bob that if the electrics have gotten so much better each year, to match his rhetoric we'd be using the things to launch satellites into orbit.)

Finally we hear that the model only flew for five minutes--still significant, granted; and good job Mike!--and that, well, it didn't actually fly a full pattern with the truly entertaining stuff, square cornered, bangin' corners left off the schedule.

Again, I would like to see good electric CL models readily available. Especially now that we have the attention of companies like Hobbico with the ARF Flite Streak and Nobler.

But we've got to be realistic about it if this source of power is to gain credibility at the flying field, to be taken seriously as an option to our beloved internal combustion engines.

Keep in mind here that this whole business is still at the bottom of the developement curve. To get a regularly sized (not 1/2A) CL plane to fly for 5 minutes and do any sort of maneuvers at all is something that would have been impossible just a few years ago. The energy density of batteries has jumped a couple of hundred percent in the last 5 years and likely needs to go up a bit more before an E-stunter can compete on equal terms. Highly efficient motors that can pull stunt sized props without heavy gearing are a relatively recent developement as well. Things are looking up. I wouldn't be surprised to see E-stunters being roughly competitive with glow power in 3-5 years. It's a tough standard to which to aspire but I think it's much more likely to succeed than, say, battery power in automobiles. The requirements there are just too onerous, even with wildly better batteries, to be reasonably practical. We're not looking for practical we're looking for performance--and only about 6 minutes worth not 4 hours and 200 miles of it.

Impossible a few years ago?
Tony Nacarado of T&A hobbies was flying small electric powered C/L models in the seventies. The limitation then, as it is now, are the batteries. Anmother problem is adapting the newer batteries to existng electric motors, controlling the voltage, developing a reliable on-off-reostat control at the handle(other then Z-Tron).

Now that I am retiring and moving to Tucson July 18th, it might be fun to help develop a workable alternative to Glow engines.

Quite right... anyone who has owned a sequence of portable computers over the past decade years has to have noticed the dramatic improvements in battery life, and it's not just because the power-saving features are getting smarter. But this stuff really is in its infancy.

I wonder if the real breakthrough will be when the battery is replaced with a fuel cell? This is going to happen over the next few years with portable electronic devices, but could fuel cells handle the higher current draw of a motor?

This thing actually FLYS! It's not being tugged around....Mike is an Expert level flyer, and he flew in the Expert class last weekend...he was chugging along and probably doing better than lots (I would venture 1/2 the Exp. field?) until the sunlight xapped the Z-tron...he explained the flaw.

Pretty nifty, except that he had to drop down several places in the flight order second round because his batteries weren't fully charged......
Dead George would be delighted!

See Ya

Lucky I still maintain that 5 years ago putting together an electric power package to fly a full size stunter for 5 plus minutes while manuevering through the pattern would have been extraordinarily difficult technically if not an actual impossibility. The advent of the very energy dense new lithium polymer cells may have finally changed the equation enough to usher in e-power's practicality. One salutary effect of the developement of successful electric power packages would be the expansion of flying site possibilities that don't exist now because of noise considerations.

>But we've got to be realistic about it if this source of
>power is to gain credibility at the flying field, to be
>taken seriously as an option to our beloved internal
>combustion engines.
>
>Dan Rutherford

Dan,

Did anyone honestly say electric power should be "taken seriously as an option to our beloved internal combustion engines"?

Just as an aside, I think electric CL is a great idea. Maybe a shorter pattern? I know there is a ton of interest in park flyers. Of course why fly CL in a park when you can fly RC... right?

I guess i should jump in here and say a few words. The ELECTRIC TWISTER flys very well for what it is. It will do the entire pattern. Sure it isn't NATS level and some menuvers are rounder than they should be, but you have to think how long it took to get the glow engine to where it is now. Electric's have a long way to go before they even come close to replacing glow engines.

If you don't believe or are trying to dump on my parade go right ahead. I'm not out to prove anybody wrong, or convince anybody that electric can work. It seems that some people are getting the wrong idea. There is no reason to say anything negative about electric unless you have tried it yourself and found it impossible to do. I am yet to find this to be true. For me this is a very enjoyable challenge and a great way to make new friends as i already have.

Mike, more power to you for trying something outside the box. One of the things that makes this hobby/sport fun is playing with new ideas.

Mike...
Please continue with your experiments. Don't let anything or anybody get in your way. The time is at hand for the EPA to start looking at the 25cc and under reciprocating engines and their particulant discharge. This means gas powered model aviation will be examined closely and probably found at fault.

Your work and the work of others in adapting electrics will be the saving grace for model aviation and control line in general. Meeting other modelers who are versed in electrics and share their knowledge only leads to new innovations and that final breakthrough relating to battery consumption and weight.

I personaly look forward to any progress articles you may produce for Stunt News or any of the other modeling magazines.

A while back, I ran across a sort of tongue-in-cheek prediction by an RC modeller that at some future time, given population growth, EPA, etc. that all that would be left of modelling would be electric CL. Might as well prepare for the future.

I just posted a picture of the awful thing on my web site:
http//www.richpeabody.com

See Ya

LAST EDITED ON Jul-02-03 AT 12:34 PM (CDT)
 
I went to the website. Where did you post the pic? I looked all through the photos and more photos and didnt see it?

Can someone post a pic of it here? I would really like to see it and it's setup.

I cant find it on Rich's site.

I think Electric would be cool. No mess. I love flying my RC glider. When I am done there is no clean up. It is great!

Someone else was pioneering this stuff in SN a couple of years ago. He said something about a bunch of negatives from people so he kept it to himself. I guess there is always naysayers in every crowd when it comes to new things. Hmmmmmm.....the pipe brings back some memories....and I wasnt even there for the real introduction of it.. Why this has to be I will never know.

More power to you Mike!

Hi Mike,
What setup are you using? Brushless? Lithium-Poly? Other? My guess is that a Hacker brushless with the new Thunder Power Li-Poly batteries would be a good setup. Expensive, but new technology always is. I met Charlie Wang, who runs Thunder Power at the SEFF meet in Andersonville last week. Nice guy and very knowledgable. I suspect he may be amenable to building some special packs if asked. One of his packs is in this Hacker powered electric "Helicopter"....

I'm afraid the energy density comparisons between model fuel and even the most exotic batteries tell the whole story. In spite of the enthusiasm for a solution, the laws of physics do not yield.

Yes, I know that electric motors are quite good (they've always been quite efficient), and that electronic power regulators are quite good (again they've been so for some time).

And I know that with careful energy management, something more pattern-like might be accomplished. But not the kind of pattern we are accustomed to seeing.

So, if we haven't already, we can next talk about powering through the lines, and discuss the difficulties of doing so, Ohm's law getting in the way badly for 65' lines and all.

Personally, I don't look for any battery powered solution in my lifetime. We might try a fuel-cell, perhaps it has more potential.

This doesn't mean we can't build and have great fun with electric CL planes. It just means not to expect them to do stunt or carrier or racing.

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"None of us can boast about the morality of our ancestors. The records do not show that Adam and Eve were married." -Ed Howe

Can the Blah-Blah, everybody. Mike "Paco" Palco is to be commended for the ongoing experiment he is doing with electric flight for control line. The Twister has been an developmental thing and has had a number of powerplants and the current setup is the best so far. I'm sure it won't be the last... thing is, Mike is having fun and doing something different. If you're going to blast it, you're jealous because nobody's making a fuss over the same-old same-old that you preach for gospel. Mike is part of a crew that likes to have fun and that's that. As far as I'm concerned all the adjectives apply, "awesome", "novel", "interesting", "different" all work. Mike also had the (insert anitomical reference here) to put it up in a sanctioned contest, but had a little glitch caused by the sun. That's a first, as far as I know. So if I can make a prediction here, when the time comes and a control line ship on batteries finally makes a successful contest flight it'll likely be Paco at the handle. Banjock will be standing on the sidelines with a grin from ear to ear and we'll all know that it worked.

Right-on, Paco!

Let's make a hybrid trimotor ship with two electrics and a four-stroke in the middle.

"current setup is the best so far"........shocking!
See Ya

Peabody.....

Rich,
Do you have visiting rights with your computer? That's "shocking".

A

As usual, there are those out there who do not readily or easily comprehend the written word.

I'm with Larry Cunningham on this issue and I believe he and I both would very much like to see successful electric-powered CL models, whether for sport or competition. But we need to be realistic about this and there ain't no black-magic batteries just around the corner.

Unless such is demanded of me, I will not be detailing all of my background in electric-powered models. Suffice to say that back when my family was racing 1/8-scale RC cars we also raced 1/12 scale. Yes, gas cars, one class for reed-valve 1/2As, the other for Cox TD-powered cars. I was there to see and be active in the electrics taking over in 1/12 scale racing. I may have been the very first consumer on the planet to have a production delta peak-detector charger. (Designed by Kevin Orton, manufactured by Delta Mfg., leading to all sorts of confusion.) I have flown a great many electric RC planes, been around many more. I was involved in a turn-around situation involving Model Racing Products and about all we made were electric-powered models, boats and cars. Yadda, yadda, yadda... (Yes, there's a lot more to the story.)

So. If those involved in electric CL models would like to have some unsolicited advice, what you need to do is establish a new class of Stunt which is geared to electric-powered models. No, not a national class, just a regional thing, maybe limit it to a couple local contests a year.

I say this for two reasons: 1) There is nothing like competition to bring the development of such models to a high(er) standard. 2) I saw over and over again how development of sport RC models was limited by the fact that all these guys would do is go to "Fun Fly" sorts of gatherings. If it flew, it was okay. But no way to determine the best in any category. Again, I have volumes of anecdotal evidence to share.

And won't, except to mention again the delta peak-detector charger. When these things were still new I showed one to Mitch Poling, at the time the Electric Power columnist for Model Builder. He snorted! Said it was impossible for this charger to do what I claimed. It was YEARS before Mitch came around and began using what is so extraordinarily common today. Mitch was not a special case; indeed, he and his approach was, and still is, quite mainstream in the world of electric RC airplanes. That changed to a certain extent, but not fast enough and with less than stellar results.

Ya gotta have contests, some relatively stable set of rules.

I'm ready for it; start the music, let's dance...

Come on Dirty Dan! You can do it. We need a good nickname for electric power on a par with "Pond Scum" for 4-cycles.

I guess electrics are ok if you want to fool with them, but the internal combustion model airplane engine is what I like the most about model airplanes. If we ever have to fly only electric airplanes, I will find another hobby.

>As usual, there are those out there who do not readily or
>easily comprehend the written word.

Ahhh yes.
(BOWING)

Maybe we should package all the Da Dirt's stuff into written scrolls and bury it in the desert. Should really screw with someone's head in a couple thousand years.

Thanks for the support everybody! I would never let other's discourage me (besides it's not the PHILLY FLYERS way)!

Peabody, i looked on your site for a picture of my twister and did not see one. The picture with the caption (electric twister) is Jack Weston's twister.

Larry,

For some reason all of us have fixated on the "pond scum" reference to four-strokes. Which leaves another, and equally applicable, comment used in "those articles" available for electric power as it applies to CL models: Bottom feeders. I like it already.

Don Jones reminded me of another way--a simplistic way, mind you-of looking at electric power versus internal combustion. That four or five ounces of fuel in your tank has a certain amount of energy, and it is not inconsiderable, even when we waste a good deal of the energy by, for example, blowing a lot of it out the exhaust. Unburned. One of the challenges for electrics of all stripes is to pack the equivalent amount of energy into at least approximately a package of the same weight. I'll let Larry C. do the math for you. (I'm at work and while on the premises we are not allowed to perform any tasks requiring education or smarts.)

Mr. Palko,

I know of which you speak. I was just recently given a Philly Flyers T-shirt. It's amazing the transformation which takes place as one slips it over his head.

I understand that methanol is the hot ticket for fuel cells at the moment. You think 4 oz will be enough to get through the pattern?

Sony is supposed to start selling a
"fuel cell" powered laptop this fall. Instead of batteries you clap in a canister of methanol.

Wonder what kind of current draw it can withstand or how much enough batteries to get 24 volts will cost and weigh?

>Sony is supposed to start selling a
>"fuel cell" powered laptop this fall. Instead of batteries
>you clap in a canister of methanol.

I wonder if, when something goes wrong, they'll dribble water all over your lap..

Lithium Polymer batteries, on paper, have enough power to weight ratio to power stunt planes anyway. Running around 15 volts(4 cell voltage)the power package would be similar in weight to a Fox 35 with 4 ounces of fuel(15 ounces or so) and have a similar run time around 6-7 minutes. Take a look at the RC plane above.

Kicker is cost. When I checked a few weeks ago the cells were around $30 and you'd need 8 of 'em. No guarantee how long they will last pulling 15-20 amps. Also, they require special chargers because they are very sensitive to charge voltage, unlike NiCads and NiMh.

Actually, with the right NiMh batteries Mike's pioneering shows that a decent electric sport CL is doable right now. I've got some batteries, so this looks like a good way to burn them up!!

The methanol powered fuel cells do seem promising.

[photo not recovered: 3f04a10953f779e3.jpg]

Here is a slide from Battelle for the U.S. Department of Energy, which will give you some idea of energy density for the best current batteries versus a couple of fuels we use in our model airplanes (kerosene and methanol). Notice how high kerosene's energy density is!

And a methanol fuel cell needs only 10% system efficiency to beat a battery.

But don't get too excited yet. The fuel cell technology can be expensive, and finding a way for it to deliver multiple amps of current to a miniature electric motor will not be trivial.

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"Anything is possible, but only a few things actually happen." -Richard Rosen

Larry,

When I back you up it is always with your name mentioned prominently. I am slightly miffed that you are not returning the favor.

Good information, thanks for digging it up. Some will continue to think we are being negative, but a little real-world data does help. If nothing else it puts into better perspective Mike's current and future accomplishments.

LAST EDITED ON Jul-03-03 AT 05:22 PM (CDT)
 
But Dan,

We openly agree on things which are immutable scientific facts.

I'm not deliberately ignoring you, please don't get that idea. I didn't think you really needed that much stroking to feel right.

(Plus I still haven't quite gotten over that remark from the California Dream from you: "Cunningham, you really don't know that much.." It still rings in my head.)

How's this? "On this, I'm in agreement with Dan Rutherford. I also know that he, like I, would love to see a viable electric CL model airplane."

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"Half of the American people never read a newspaper. Half never voted for President. One hopes it is the same half." -Gore Vidal

...lots of discussion about the discharge power curve of a battery pack and the lack of power near the end of the pattern where the current pattern sequence needs it the most. True enough.

Maybe a solution is excess duration available from the battery and a simple shut off timer...

Hi guys,

Yes, I remember Dirty Dan's stuff in Model Builder. He sorta reminds me of my Dad, who would take the opposite side in a conversation just to keep things interesting. Difference is, nobody seemed to get PO'ed at my father. I think Dirty likes to be disliked. The biggest insult is to ignore someone, maybe he is afraid to be forgotten.

His point is valid. The electrics never will take the place of fuel powered propulsion. How many electric free flights do you see? For fast climbs and high G manuevers you don't have the power to weight. Look at the electric R/C planes, boring. The few that have relatively high performance are not exactly low tech or durable.

That said, I can see a place for the electrics. Noise is the biggest problem we have. Ask the average non modeling person what they think of the constant droning of a ukie. Why not an event for electrics only, but as part of a bigger "regular" contest? You need competition to get people's interest. Maybe when I go to T&A today I'll ask Tony about what would be appropriate manuevers.

The problem of constant RPM could be easily overcome with existing technology. Jomar had a sync system for twin R/C planes that sensed the RPM of the master engine and adjusted the carb on the slave to match. Sensing was done with Hall effect devices and magnets on the spinner backplates. Same general idea could be used for single engine with feedback to a speed control in the plane. No external IR or radio controls. Dr. Spark could set this up in his sleep.

It's easy for me to have an opinion since I am not burdened by excess knowledge. Anybody wanting to discuss the electric stuff further off list can email me.

John in the PRC [email protected]

Never?

It just occured to me...

"Let's make a hybrid trimotor ship with two electrics and a four-stroke in the middle."

...would that be a "Double Bottom Feeding Pond Scummer"

A

Well, hardly ever.

Who dislikes Danny Dirt?

I'm certainly one of his biggest fans, and I read almost everything he writes. (I don't necessarily AGREE, but..) Dan's use of the term "high zoot" (straight out of Dirt Bike magazine) first brought him to my attention.

Yes, I do pick at him like a scab at times, and he has a perpetual prune in his whiskers when it comes to politics, but most folks recognize that as soon as Dan buys me that dark beer he owes me, he'll be back in my good graces. (Or that sermon/jobation Dan promised me many months ago would do.)

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"I belong to no organized political party -- I am a Democrat." -Will Rogers

Check out the Lynntech website, new products, for information on their fuel-cell powered microaircraft. 15 in wingspan plank-type flying wing, 6 ozs, 15 minute initial flight. They use the fuel cell for part of the wing stucture. Be interested in comment about power output of their fuel cells.

Whoa there MR. Uninformed...
If you'd have seen one of the ARC Welder types of Electric planes, and I forget teh FAI class of them, you wouldn't make such a statement. I have seen a 2 meter plane rip itself from the pilots hand to virtually disappear vertically in less than 15 seconds, after 30 minutes of soaring around on negligable lift, he came swooping by at about 100 mph to do 3 minutes of aerobatics to bleed off energy ending with a 5 mph glide by at eye level. He hit the switch and diappeared again. I believe he said he was limited in the event to a little over one and a half minutes of motor run, which he had. In 15 second bursts his flights lasted quite some time. BUT, it was a 450 dollar motor with a 200 dollar controller and a 10 cell flight pack that was also in the 100's of dollars for being zapped and matched and treated with precision. The kit weren't cheap neither.

There is plenty of performance there, if you match the application to the equipment. There will be electric control line for the masses some day, probably sooner than you'd think. But I'll still puddle around with the gas cuzz I love it. Then again, I play with electric RC as well.
From somewhere near Parkville, Mo
William Crane
AMA 6733

About electric stunters.

Just for your info. An US rc-pilot (Jason Shulman) is flying at the moment in the FAI F3A worlds champs with his electric pattern plane. Use google or other search engines, if you are interested about his plane and technology.

Maybe it is not yet there, but it is getting very close.

regs, Jyrki

>Just for your info. An US rc-pilot (Jason Shulman) is flying
>at the moment in the FAI F3A worlds champs with his electric
>pattern plane.

For Those interested, here's a web page:

http://www.aeroklubpolski.pl/modelarstwo/23ms/index.htm

To all the na sayers of electric control line planes.

If man were ment to fly God would have given us wing. Since God didn't give us wing he chose to give us the Wright brothers.

If 50 years ago someone told you you would have a computer with the capabilities that you now have, would you have belived them?

We will never have an electric cl plane if some one dosn't try.

I (you) can't will never gt anything done.

Didn't Tom Swift have an electric stunter??

Don't look now, but an electric powered plane flown by Jason Schulman (who probably could fly a baseball bat) has taken fourth place at the World Champs in R/C Pattern.....

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140138&perpage=15&pagenumber=2