Gieseke Nobler Question

Gieseke Nobler question:

Recently I’ve been flying a scratch built Gieseke Nobler from a set of plans of the 1968 model. Even with a lowly Fox 35 the 38 ounce model is by far the best flying model I’ve ever had, with effortless round maneuvers and nice crisp squares. I promoted it to be my PAMPA plane as well as classic, and it has moved me from mid pack in Advanced to several podium finishes. Definitely a great little model, it does everything well, and is by far my best plane for windy conditions, too..
I understand that the modern Bear is the evolved Gieseke Nobler. But on the way from Bob G’s Fox 35 powered job of the 1970s to the piped Bear of the 2000s, was there ever a ST 46 sized Nobler???(and do any plans exist if the plane ever did?) I don’t necessarily need the latest NATs weapon, but I would like a Gieseke Nobler amenable to using the LA-46 for a good midsized PA job with an easily obtainable low cost powerpant. Was there ever such a bird way back when?

Steve: We have been flying with Bob G. for over 10 years here in the Dallas area, and I know of no 46 sized G Nobler/Bear. My brother and I have been to Bob's house several times and have only seen 35 or 60 sized ships.

Bob's first experiments with the piped setup were in a G Nobler with (I believe) either a Super Tiger 34 or OS 32. This is the only one he ever painted a color other than red (yellow). He still has this plane on the wall in his workshop; very cool.

I believe that from there he went right to a 60 size ship, at first using a ST 60; and not really caring for it. The 97 Bear/Nobler is actually a small plane compared to most of todays 60 size stunters. The wingspan is just under 56 inches and the wing area is 657 sq. in. By comparison the Buccaneer 746 has about a 58 or 59 inch span and 650 sq. in. and is designed to use a 46 - 60 size engine. I believe that a 97 Bear could definitely be built light enough or just slightly downsized to be powered by a motor such as the OS LA 46.

Bob's current Bear uses a Billy Werwage Geo/Bolt wing with about 62" of span and 715 sq. in. It has a longer tail moment and stab/elev. It looks huge and flies great. It also looks great, as Bob placed on the front row at the Nats concours judging.

I beleive Bob shoehorned a ST/46 in his stock 35 size Nobler many years ago for a Nats out west. At that nats every one went power crazy and supper light as they thought the high elevation would have a large effect on there flights. Those super light planes weren't needed and most flew there stock planes. I used ST/46's in a few Gieseke Noblers bach in the 80's and I had to enlarge the tail to around 22% to get a sharp corner.Also getting in a 5.5 oz tank was a problem and I had to make a sump on the tank to get enough fuel.They flew very good for what I wanted at the time.

Eddy's right, and you may want to ask Bob on this for the details, but at the Reno Nats Bob put an ST 46 on his Nobler and never looked back. That was the beginning of the evolution to the larger engines.

Now, from our own experiences, We put a Magnum 53 onto Matt's 35 FP powered ship (570 square inches) and it flew great, 13 inch 3-blade prop and all. I don't see why (other than concern for balance and fuel load) you coldn't just put a 46 in the Gieseke Nobler and have at it.

>> Was there ever such a bird way back when<<

Steve,

Yeah, I had one with a ST/46. The year of the Reno Nats, whatever year that was. The problem was fuel shortage.

I actually had two. The second had a larger tank and was going to the Nats until I broke the nose off on t.o. on our bumpy circle! That one flew exceptionally well. It was total Fox 35 size with 46 power turning a low pitch prop. That was the end of the 46 experiment. I had 46 sized planes with 60s in them.

Bear

I wonder what Stan Haugarth was running in his at the last Texarkana Contest? I noticed he had a large Super Tigre decal on the nose.

Thanks Gentlemen for your replies! Looks like I can approach the problem in two ways. Enlarging a Gieseke Nobler fractionally, or shrinking a Bear a bit. I'll get the UHP plans for both and study the issue. I'm not in a hurry, but it will be an interesting project to think about while I'm still enjoying the G Nobler I've already got.

PS Elwyn that is an awesome closeup picture there. Guessing its a tigre 46 from the decal and the amount of the cylinder sticking out of the cowling. That must be monster power for that plane!

Steve,

You are such a good pilot that I really believe that you should investigate building a Bear with a Geo-Bolt wing and powering it with a PA or one of Oliver's 61 or 65 engines. You would definiely be someone to be reckoned with in both Advanced and Expert not too long after puting that kind of plane in the air.