ARF Nobler flying

Flew the first 5 flights on the ARF Nobler today.
Dry wieght with Brodak40 was 38.3oz. Flys great, rock solid level and inverted, good corners and smooth rounds.
Stock tank is too small, 3.2 oz. Run time about 4:30 using 10% nitro. Need to figure how to get a 4 ounce tank in there. Does anybody know the dimensions of the Brodak Nobler tank??

>Flew the first 5 flights on the ARF Nobler today.
>Dry wieght with Brodak40 was 38.3oz. Flys great, rock solid
>level and inverted, good corners and smooth rounds.
>Stock tank is too small, 3.2 oz. Run time about 4:30 using
>10% nitro. Need to figure how to get a 4 ounce tank in
>there. Does anybody know the dimensions of the Brodak
>Nobler tank??
>

Looking in the Brodak catalogue, the tank for a nobler is #BH-531. It is a 4 ounce tank with dimensions of 1"H X 2"W X 4"L. Should be the same one that I used in my Brodak nobler. I used the same tank in my Brodak oriental. You can also use #BH-541, which has the same dimensions and capacity. Hopefully it will fit as I ordered a TF nobler too.

>Flew the first 5 flights on the ARF Nobler today.
>Dry wieght with Brodak40 was 38.3oz. Flys great, rock solid
>level and inverted, good corners and smooth rounds.
>Stock tank is too small, 3.2 oz. Run time about 4:30 using
>10% nitro. Need to figure how to get a 4 ounce tank in
>there. Does anybody know the dimensions of the Brodak
>Nobler tank??
>

Don't know the dimensions, but the tank of my flying partner's TF Nobler measures out at about 3.3 ounces. Rats - We had planned to put a DS 40 in it. However, the DS needs a good four ounces to fly the pattern.

Has anyone thought of the OS FP 25 (or LA 25)? I think Pat Johnston had one in his Nobler before that ship lost a fight with a flight box. Brett Buck mentioned that it had more than sufficient power. Is anyone else planning on going the FP/LA 25 route?

I definitely plan to use the OS .25 fp. I have one in my Flite streak, and it is way overpowered. I ended up plugging half the ventui and use a 4" pitch prop. Still loads of go!

when I had the venturi open and put on a 9x5 prop, it clocked at 83 mph!

I think it will lug a Nobler very well indeed.

>Is anyone else planning on going the
>FP/LA 25 route?

I'm currently flying a 38oz Sig Twister with FP 25 and 9-4 prop. On 56.5' lines I get 4.9 second lap times and solid tension everywhere. Fuel is Sig Champion 10/25 all castor. This is the ABN (newer) style FP but std front NVA and stock muffler. Very quiet setup.

If you use the OSLA25 you can also use the Hayes 3oz clunk tank. I use 2.25 oz to do the full pattern and run time on 2.25 oz is about 5:25. using an apc 9x4 on a primary force. More than enough power.

Bob Smiley
A Lancair 360 builder/flyer trying to be a modeler.

A 2" wide tank will not fit in the new ARF Nobler.

Yep, a 2" wide tank will not fit, darn it. I am going to try to find an R/C type round 4 ounce plastic one and try to nestle it down between the motor mounts enough to center it behind the needle valve. If that doesn't work I will probably put an LA .25 in for power.

So far I have changed out the lead outs, belcrank, and control horns; all for better wear qualities.

I am glad to hear it flies well. Does it turn the same both directions or does it turn inside a little quicker?

Dee

I just got a new Tower Hobby flyer, and the Nobler ad (see p14) suggests an OS LA 40 for the Nobler. Should we suggest to them that the 40 may not be the best choice?

kdheath, There isn't a thing wrong with the LA.40. I am and have been using them for over 5 years along with the LA.46. secret is that there's no secret to running them aside from using at least 25% oil and installing an FP venturi and NVA. You will gain from experimenting with the size of the venturi choke area and various head spacings. If you really want to have one ready to roll right out of the box, correspond with Duane Cowan of Bethel, PA who is the absolute master with setting these up. If you buy from him your engine will have no less than one hour running time on it as delivered! That's about how long it will take for all the parts to become happy with eachother.As long as you don't over tighten the back plates plastic is fine. You'll probablly want to remove the funny arm if the one you get still has it. The newer ones have a metal carb mount and there all you do is remove the carb!

Sorry, Phil, I didn't make myself clear. I was just wondering if the 40 might not be a bit much, weightwise, for the Nobler. If it does well with the 25, would it take a hit from the extra weight of the 40? No criticism of the 40 intended.
K

>kdheath, There isn't a thing wrong with the LA.40. I am and
>have been using them for over 5 years along with the LA.46.
>secret is that there's no secret to running them aside from
>using at least 25% oil and installing an FP venturi and NVA.
>You will gain from experimenting with the size of the
>venturi choke area and various head spacings. If you really
>want to have one ready to roll right out of the box,
>correspond with Duane Cowan of Bethel, PA who is the
>absolute master with setting these up. If you buy from him
>your engine will have no less than one hour running time on
>it as delivered! That's about how long it will take for all
>the parts to become happy with eachother.As long as you
>don't over tighten the back plates plastic is fine. You'll
>probablly want to remove the funny arm if the one you get
>still has it. The newer ones have a metal carb mount and
>there all you do is remove the carb!

The 4oz square Sullivan "flex tank" is 2" wide, but will squeeze in because it's flexible. On this forum, Alan Hahn suggested this. Although the tank is too tall to center vertically behind the engine, Alan says he can adjust the upright/inverted speed by bending the uniflow tube up or down. Paul Walker mentions a similar idea in his Impact article - must work!

Sullivan 4oz round (cylindrical) tank: This one fits between the fuse sides no problem. However, It still won't line up vertically with the needle valve. Dave Cook runs one of these in a Fox 35/Brodak Nobler - runs terrific, but Dave builds the nose of a ship specifically for these tanks and grinds the maple bearers down to get proper tank height. He's been doing it this way
since the 60's!

BH-482 Medium Wedge Uniflow 4oz (1" H x 1 3/4" W x 4 3/4" L)
This one WILL fit between the fuse sides, and line up with the needle just fine. Problem is it's too long! You'll need to open up the firewall to fit this tank in. This is the route I will take.

I plan on running a Max-S .35 first, then playing with the Brodak 40.

Hope this helps somebody.

Link to Brodak Tank:

http://www.brodak.com/catalog/detail.cfm?myproduct=BH-482

I am also considering an OS .35s for mine. I have several of these and have never flown one. Question: Do you know of anyone who offers the tongue style muffler for these? The tapped holes are down inside the exhaust stack on each side on my engines> Ed

My tongue muffler is an SST unit, produced by Bob and Rolland McDonald a few years ago. I don't think they do it anymore. They were sold by Tom Dixon, so it might be worth a call to see if he has any left. Other than that, see if you can find another (more current) engine with similar bolt spacing and adapt a tongue muffler from that to fit your OS.

I have 3 Max-s 35s and one had the hole drilled in the exhaust stacks, but not by the factory. I drilled the one I wanted to use and installed 4-40 helicoils. Muffler installs very cleanly this way.

You can drill the taped holes in the exhaust stack all the way through and bolt an FP-25 tongue muffler on from the back side. This requires milling a few small fins off for screw head clearance but it doesn't hurt the engine. After this is done you can even bolt a Big Art FP-25 tube muffler on.

Mine turns the same inside vs outside. No complaints what so ever with flying characteristics. CG came out about 3/4" forward of spar and thats how I launched it. Added no weights anywhere.
Still running the Brodak 40 on rich side as it only has 40 minutes bench time before the 5 flights yesterday. Using 60ft eye to eye .012 solids at about 5.6 sec laps and pulling a soft corner into a wingover it goes right over the top still in a 4-cycle with only the slightest of "assistance". Can tell it will be just right when I get the 4-2-4 going. Expect to go 62ft lines and lap times around 5.3 - 5.4.
I made 2 modifications: replaced the leadouts and beefed up the motor mounts. The beams were 5/16 x 1/2 vs the usual 3/8 x 1/2. Spacing was a perfect fit for the B-40 case but the screw holes fell close to the outside edges of the beams so I epoxied on an 1/8" piece from the firewall forward so the blind mount nuts would have a full contact seat. Other wise the flanges of the nuts were hanging over.
Took me about 12 hours all total, 5 just on fitting the cowl. Beginners will have problems with the controls.
Just remembered, 1 other minor mod. I extended the fuse cutout for the stab all the way back to make a slot to facilitate stab/elevator installation.

hey allan did you build it stock or did you do any modifacations?

Alan, Did you change the leadouts, horns, and other stuff or just use it as it came from the vendor?

Some 40+/- years ago I built a Green Box Nobler because it was so famous I thought I'd better find out what all the fuss was about. I took the opportunity to use a Kometa 29, the Russian ST 29 copy. This had a very discouraging engine test in Aeromodeller at the time, (about 0.24bhp?). I was sure mine was better than that and it was, it had plenty of power. Mind you, it needed priming with a 50% oil fuel to start it!! Had to build a special tank for it, about 1.75"(?) wide and about 6"(+?) long. The engine turned out to be one of the loudest engines I've ever heard, and the tank, despite being a Palmer uniflow, was the only Palmer style tank (baffle 1" from the back of the tank) I've ever had which while being o.k. was not perfect. Little blips during the run. Anyone have any similar experiences with long thin Palmer tanks? And any advice? Regards, Ian R.

The Brodak BH-627 4oz Large Profile uniflow fits very nicely. It is the old Veco style profile tank. Fits good between the rails and lines up with NVA with plenty of room for adjustment up and down. Only problem is the uniflow vent may bump and rub; however once the fuel tubing is in place, this should not be a problem. This is the tank I intend to try first.

>The Brodak BH-627 4oz Large Profile uniflow fits very
>nicely. It is the old Veco style profile tank. Fits good
>between the rails and lines up with NVA with plenty of room
>for adjustment up and down. Only problem is the uniflow
>vent may bump and rub; however once the fuel tubing is in
>place, this should not be a problem. This is the tank I
>intend to try first.

Sorry but I just can't imagine how you are going to get this particular tank to work. It's a profile tank!!! How are you doing this?

Yes it is a profile tank, and yes it fits very well. As I said in my earlier post, the uniflow tube may bump a little; however, this will be cushioned by the fuel tube. And all fuel lines fit through the firewall access hole.

Well that certainly answered my question.
Thanks

Rick,

I've got one of the Brodak 4oz profile tanks on....a profile job. But the venting arrangement has the uniflow out the top of the tank and the pickup out the bottom. There should be enough room between the engine bearers in the tank compartment for the top uniflo to clear them, although it might just rub against the outboard bearer. In theory the vent and pickup lines could then run forward and out the little hole in the firewall. But I think the spec size for that Brodak tank is 2" wide, so it shouldn't fit. I'm guessing the tank is out of spec, which sometimes happens with the Brodak tanks I've seen. So in this one case it might be a-ok.

I'm leaning toward an LA-25 when I get around to getting one. My flying partner's model seemed very light when we got it out of the box, so I'm guessing the LA will fly it and then I can use the cool looking factory tank...

Steve,
Thanks. That's a better explanation, but I'm still unclear as to how that profile tank sets in the tank compartment. A photo would be worth a thousand words here.

I'm going to use a Brodak BH-489 medium wedge uniflow all tubes forward. It's 1.75 wide and 4 oz.

I will have a pic for you this evening. The tank fits very well.

Thanks Lou, that would be great!

Bingo: went to my box of tanks and found an uncommon brand that drops in like it was made for it; perfect fit between side walls. Don't even remember where or when I bought it. Hayes 4 oz slimline.
Hayes #148, can be seen on Tower Hobbies website; their # LXK833. And it saves .6 oz compared to the stock tank. Will install and test next weekend.

Just a question....why not build a tank that fits the compartment? They aren't hard to make and don't take much time? I've made many tanks over the years for specific planes and never had a problem with any of them. Course they weren't near as pretty as the factory jobs but thats mainly cause I'm not that fussy.

Brodak have what they call the "medium wedge" uniflow tanks. Order one with all tubes forward. They are 1.75" wide.

The Sullivan round four-ounce plastic tank fits in perfectly with only a small beveling of the inside corners of the engine mounts. It will line up with the provided fire wall hole which lines up with 1/2" high needle valves. I think the cost was $3.95. I will set it up for uniflow venting. They are a little lighter than metal tanks. Even though I have used plastic tanks before I generally use homemade metal tanks. I know a lot of expert fliers that prefer plastic tanks and I plan to retrofit a six ounce round Sullivan in my original Oriental Plus because I can use a little less nose weight.

>The Sullivan round four-ounce plastic tank fits in perfectly
>with only a small beveling of the inside corners of the
>engine mounts.
Hey Dee: I have setup a 4oz Sullivan round for uniflow. How will you get in there to bevel the motor mounts?
Allan Perret

I noticed on the most recent Tower montly sales catlog, that they are listing the Nobler (even tho out of stock), and with it listing the OS .40 LA, Sullivan handle (crap) and Sullivan .018" x 60' lines. I would expect longer lines would work, particularly if .015's are used, which are legal, of course. Moral of the story is to watch out for those R~C blokes, they don't know much about CL. Steve

>Just a question....why not build a tank that fits the
>compartment? They aren't hard to make and don't take much
>time? I've made many tanks over the years for specific
>planes and never had a problem with any of them. Course
>they weren't near as pretty as the factory jobs but thats
>mainly cause I'm not that fussy.

Ron B.
F4Fguy

What he said.