NOBLER CRASH

ok, i admit it was kinda my fault for not taking peoples advice, I crashed my new arf nobler.. I went out to the flying field (Tulsa glue Dobbers www.tulsacl.com) to test fly me newly finished nobler, it took my dad and I (im 14) 20 minutes to get the motor running. so after we got it running i walked to the middle of the circle and gave him the signal, he launched it and it went about ten feet then flipped over, when I walked back out to see what I had done. (Nothing) my dad asked "why did you give it full down" i told him i didn't and we brushed it off thinking the down line got caught in the grass. so we moved it back to my flight box and started it again, (it didnt take as long) my dad launched it for me again, when it got in the air I realized it was very nose heavy,(Stock Fp .35 w/ muffler) the airplane did one or two more laps and I felt a cracking in the handle, the airplane did one more lap then all the sudden a leadout broke giving my airplane full down but at the same time the "UP" line (not leadout) broke which suddenly jammed my controls. I yelled, LINE BROKE LINE BROKE!! the airplane did another lap then suddenly got full up again and did a loop and a half. the motor mounts were broken and the cowling is destroyed. Of course the leadouts were also ruined. all of this happening ruined my all time fovorite handle, HOT ROCK, and ruined my good set of lines. the wing on the airplane isn't hurt so i think i will put it in a profile sometime. JoeBellCrank- the reason I had to leave our conversation so quick was because my dad said lets go fly your nobler and I couldn't resist... now i wish I would have stayed and talked.. BEN

Hate to hear of your bad luck , try to get it patched back up.It could turn out to be your best flyer

Do you have any pictures of crashed plane ?, It would be interesting to see the construction. and how well it held up to the crash

Will Davis ( Carolina Gang)

Nope, no pics yet, it held up better than I thougt though.. BEN

Ben:
Somehow I am not following this episode.
What was the cause of the first nose over? Tall grass or a suggestion of impending control problems?
Why did you feel it was nose heavy in level flight? Just real sluggish or ??.
If the down leadout broke, the airplane should immediately go into an inside loop, if the up line somehow broke also at the same time, it would seem the ship would fly away out of control.
Why is handle ruined? I used to always use hot rocks but have discovered there are much better handles for stunt.
You and your dad usually have your act together pretty well insofar as starting and equipment. Was the starting problem somehow related to the airplane or??

Inquiring minds want to know as I'm still contemplating a Nobler purchase. Was this a flaw with the ARF controls or??

The Tower web site says out of stock until end of August which is likely optimistic. I figure the LHS should have them in stock in two or three years.

I am a little confused about which part broke. Did the handle break or the leadouts inside the wing broke?

Could the lines have been connected wrong??

sorry for not being tottally clear, the hot rock was ruined because the line that didn't break pulled so hard it ruined the device that holds the line in place, its hard to explain, the lines were connected wrong. I am not sure what caused the first nose over. i think grass, i knew it was nose heavy because i did do some mild climbs and dives.. the only reason i had engine trouble is because this is my first inverted engine and i dont know how to run it,, the controls I put in the airplane were tottally stock, the leadout didn't break, the ring that holds the lead out to the bellcrakn broke.. the handle broke because of the line break, also, i dont know which broke first, lines or leadouts.. hope i've answered everyones questions.. BEN

>the lines were connected wrong.

I saw that happen at a contest to a flyer who certainly should have known better. He had nicely done Sig Super Chipmunk with a hand buffed dope finish. After flying a couple of practice patterns, he signalled for his official and ran out to the handle - which he promptly picked up upside down.

Nicked the prop a couple of times during the takeoff roll (up handle raising the tail) then it looked like he gave it full down. The model went vertical for about 15 feet then did a beautiful hammerhead stall nose first into the asphalt. He was yelling, "No, no, no" all during the escapade. The model was totalled.

I've seen other people change the handle in flight but am sure that is not recommended.

Scariest scene I've ever seen though, was in a hobby shop. Two young guys came in and bought a C/L 35 type profile kit with engine and lines. When the sales person asked if they wanted a handle, they said, "No, we'll just hold onto the lines - one in each hand." I sincerely doubt (hope) they ever completed the kit.

I'm with you, Steven. It sounds like the cracking in the handle was the plastic splitting and allowing the cable to run amok. Hot Rocks are known to do that. Howard lost his first Impact to Hot Rock failure. FAA-type investigation data would be very good info for all of us who have signed up to buy these ARFs. Maybe those who (like me) will receive theirs from later batches will benefit from passing along any info the crashed model(s) can provide. Good info should be sent to TF...but don't be too critical. Constructive ideas would go far, I believe. They might well send you a replacement if you provide good info and are nice. Photos would help. Steve

it was not the handles fault, tottally the airplane.. I am sure of this. the handle leads just slipped when one of the lines got over loaded and that made it not hold its adjustment anymore, the leadouts are what broke.. I will contact TF about this,, BEN

Ahhh, Ben.

I'm sorry to hear of your loss. At least the wing is salvagable, and you can build a fuselage for it.

I wish we could have talked more before you had to leave. How did you finally get your engine starting accomplished?

One good thing to come from your experience is that it may help several others avoid what happened to you. No great help to you in the short run, but valuable over the long haul.

I suspect a few pictures and a letter to Top Flight might help. I suspect that individule parts may be available in the future. At least you could ask them.

Best wishes. john Miller AKA Joe Bellcrank

Had to get a picture of this belcrank assembly. The Bellcrank looks like a stock Fox or Veco aluminum unit, I have read about folks using these type of connectors somewhere on the web, but I'd wire straight to the belcrank. Some racers use internal wire connectors so that isn't unheard of.

I think everything could have been saved with a pull test, you did do a pulltest didn't you?

Ya, I never do either:-(

Anyways, here's the connection in question out of my ARF Nobler

OK, this answers some questions from people. It is the clip that goes through the belcrank, so it is not the leadouts themselves. This should prevent the leadouts sawing through the belcrank or visa versa. However: we have now heard of one failure of the leadouts (one of many to come I would expect). I would be interested in learning where, exactly these leadouts failed. And maybe this also speaks for the wisdom of those who planned ahead and replaced the leadouts while assembling. It may add 30 minutes to an hour to the job, but if it saves the plane from failure, well, it is good insurance.

Sorry about your loss, but any comments of these natures can prevent future losses to others.

Wow Ben, sorry to hear about your mishap.. Russ still has a couple that are not spoken for yet I would sure contact Top Flight and let them know about the leadout failure.

It's really too bad that TF didn't simply use a nylon bellcrank.

That one even looks like it has an abrasive texture on it.

And the links for the leadouts sure look wimpy to me.

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"Instead of getting married again, I'm going to find a woman I don't like and just give her a house." -Rod Stewart

Ben-
I'm very sorry to hear of the mishap. I'm sure that by now you're familiar with my post regarding the control arrangement in the ARF. Seems that my wry sense of humor made my post seem more like a slam at Top Flite than some easy prevention and safety fixes. One thing about modelers is that much like Hot Rodders and other tinkerers, most of us do mods to enhance performance first and safety second. The biggest safety issue with CL is the possibility of a fly-away or an errant person walking into the flight circle.
Truth is... I'm ##### impressed with the overall quality and ingenious manufacture of the new ARF's. But when something is a glaring problem, it behooves me to make it known. I don't care if most model manufacturers have ignored CL for 25 years. We should always consider safety whether we have constructed a ship ourselves or some underpaid Indonesian worker did it. Safety first. That's all. I have had the misfortune of seeing not one, but three different people struck by control line airplanes. If changing a worthless metal clip can make an otherwise good model exponentially more safe than it was before, it can and should be done.
Your post is very important and thank you for being honest and getting the word out there.

Regards, Alan

Ben,
Sorry to hear this. I went back out to the shop last night after reading your post and did another 40lb pull test. Everything held, but man this has definitely got my attention. May have to change my mind and invest more time than I wanted to to make mine last more than one flight.

Bring your nobler to the field Saturday and we will take photos to send to TF. I have a feeling we can convince them this was due to bad design flaw and probably get your money back or a new plane. Since you didn't MODIFY anything they may honor the warranty on the cover of the instructions.

Rick, you could just swap their wimpy clips with good clips if you want to use the lines in the box.

BEN

SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR NOBLER. I'VE SEEN THE PHOTO, I THINK I'LL RUN THE CABLE THROUGH COPPER TUBING AND THEN WRAP THEM LIKE TOM MORRIS' BELLCRANK SET.

SAY HI TO JOE GILBERT FOR ME. JOE CAME DOWN IN MID JUN WITH HIS CHURCH GROUP. WE GOT A COUPLE OF FLIGHTS IN, BUT UNFORTUNATELY HIS FOX 35 DID NOT LIKE IT HERE. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS THE HUMIDITY OR BEING AT SEA LEVEL.

THANKS

STEVE GRENOT

>Rick, you could just swap their wimpy clips with good clips
>if you want to use the lines in the box.

I thought about that as well while I was picking up the .032 wire from the LHS this evening. Still haven't made up my mind. Probably won't till Saturday when I start putting it together

Thanks buddy

Rick,

Change the leadouts!

:+ The Tulsa Gluedobbers have clamed a place in the history books. Our club members were first to crash both the Flight Streak and Nobler ARF's. Are we good or what

What does that say about Tulsa Gluedobbers flying skills?

I couldn't resist....

>What does that say about Tulsa Gluedobbers flying skills?
>
>
>I couldn't resist....
>
>Steven Yampolsky

Oh I don't know...G.Aldrich was a Tulsa GlueDobber...his skills were considered pretty good by some

Next time you see Jim Carpenter at a GX combat match look at his hat

I've got a Glue Dobbers sticker for my flight box. Luckily I didn't get it on the box cuzz last week I picked it up and ended up with just the handle in my hand.

Time for a new box! He, picked this one up used for 2 bucks.