Black Hawk Models?

Check out this item on E*ay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3139903630&indexURL=1#ebayphotohosting

These look like clones of some of the old Scientific 1/2 A control line models, with full carved fuselages. I'd love to have a source for those models, since I never got to play with them. Is "Black Hawk Models" for real? Can they provide carved fuselage blanks for the old Scientific line?

What's going on here?

Andy,

I think the guy selling these is the manufacturer. In his first listing he elluded to just that.

>Andy,
>
>I think the guy selling these is the manufacturer. In his
>first listing he alluded to just that.

I was just wondering if he had the old Scientific machine(s) for making carved fuselages. If you could buy just the fuselage blank(s) you'd be able to clone the old Scientific line, which would be a lot of fun.

>>Andy,
>>
>>I think the guy selling these is the manufacturer. In his
>>first listing he alluded to just that.
>
>I was just wondering if he had the old Scientific machine(s)
>for making carved fuselages. If you could buy just the
>fuselage blank(s) you'd be able to clone the old Scientific
>line, which would be a lot of fun.
>
>Andy

I can't find this company on the internet, but here is a snail mail address for them:

Black Hawk Models
300 East Arbor Street #64
Long Beach. Ca. 90805

It would be fun to see some of their stuff. The models in the photo look a bit crudely made, but nothing a little more carving and sanding wouldn't cure.

Just out of curiosity, I bought an assembled Golden Hawk (a Scientific design) from Black Hawk. It was done pretty well, and the price was modest. He also sells "Scientific like" 1/2As, too.

Interesting business model this guy has. Currell

For the NVCL club, there are 71 eligible Hollow Logs in 1/2A size; that is, solid wing and hollowed solid fuselage (the Bel Air is the exception, being a two piece, hollow wing).

If you build light enough, it is amazing how well these little fellows fly. Some of the better flying models are: Stuntmaster, Bullet, Golden Hawk. The Little Mercury makes a great Team Racer, due to its stability.

>For the NVCL club, there are 71 eligible Hollow Logs in 1/2A
>size; that is, solid wing and hollowed solid fuselage (the
>Bel Air is the exception, being a two piece, hollow wing).
>
>If you build light enough, it is amazing how well these
>little fellows fly. Some of the better flying models are:
>Stuntmaster, Bullet, Golden Hawk. The Little Mercury makes a
>great Team Racer, due to its stability.
>
>Currell

So am I to understand that this firm is offering the old Scientific line for sale? Do they have a catalog? Are they providing the old machine carved fuselage blanks? Enquiring minds want to know...

Thanks,

More: The Cyclone is a good stunter, owing to its (relatively) large 23" span.

Just to be different for the Concours, try a Triplane, or Waco Cabin, or a Kellet Autogiro.

Another way to get in touch with this outfit/seller would be to use the eBay option shown at each eBay listing, "Ask Seller a Question." You might get the answers you seek faster that way.

It has worked with Currell a couple of times.

>Another way to get in touch with this outfit/seller would be
>to use the eBay option shown at each eBay listing, "Ask
>Seller a Question." You might get the answers you seek
>faster that way.
>
>It has worked with Currell a couple of times.

I had noted that. I just didn't want to have to register with E*ay to do it, since I have no interest in buying/selling. Perhaps I should reconsider...

LAST EDITED ON Jul-23-03 AT 12:23 PM (CDT)
 
Andy,

These are NOT Scientific designs, they are only sorta look-a-likes, the maker made this clear in his first auctions. I doubt he has the Scientific equipment or he'd be cutting the airfoils too. Hollowing the fuses as Scientific did could be accomplised with a router and a simple fixture.

I'm not sure this guy is a real modeler looking at his sample models and their square edges etc. I'd just E-mail him and see what he has to say.

Not a big deal to register, it only costs to sell.

>Andy,
>
>These are NOT Scientific designs, they are only sorta
>look-a-likes, the maker made this clear in his first
>auctions.

Randy: Some of the models are the original designs, and some are not.

Golden Hawk, for example, is an original.

You have to do a little sanding to get the models the way you want them. Currell

I guess that you got all of the answers that you needed without my help. There once was a time when I was a very good modeler but those days have long since passed, now my eyes are bad, the hearing is going, my hands shake and more. No I will never again be able to buikd the beautiful SCALE planes that I use to, with corragation and rivets, nor the scale scooners that graced my mantle, but in my heart I love the hobby. So, yes my models look rough but do not look for them to improve. I have more planes coming out soon and NONE of them are Scientific, Sterling, Top Flight or anyone elses. Larry

>I have more planes coming out soon and NONE
>of them are Scientific, Sterling, Top Flight or anyone
>elses. Larry

Nice to hear from you Larry! And I'm looking forward to your new kits.

Larry the Red Baron is making, by hand, some replica Scietific kits for some local kids and also selling mail order. I have the Golden Hawk, and a Silver Hawk ( a profile Golden Hawk). Haven't built it yet. I am flying a real Scientific Golden Hawk and Air Champ biplane. Neither can do a loop. But it's kicks. I started in 1956 with those planes.
Larry has been invited to the Cypress (CA) Community Festival where the Knights of the Round Circle will fly demo's for the public. Sat July 26, Oak Knoll Park 5700 Orange Ave, Cypress CA, 9 to 5. See you guys there?

>Larry the Red Baron is making, by hand, some replica
>Scietific kits for some local kids and also selling mail
>order.

Here's Larry's reply to my inquiries:

Andrew,
I am always glad to hear from other modelers. Black Hawk Models was reopened with the idea of doing something for the kids, I feel that it is important to give young people something constructive to do and this is a great hobby for them.
Scientific made a very good product and they were able to mass produce them as they had a much larger market back then. Their fuselages, which I admire, had their flaws; they were made of soft balsa and they had a mass of extra wood on the tail to be cut off. Our fuselages are band sawed and sanded hard balsa. Scientific had a special tool made up to hollow there fuselages, we use forester bits to hollow ours. All of our balsa is hand selected hard balsa. Their hardware left a lot to be desired, wood wheels, no way to hold them on the landing gear and no wing weight. All of our kits include "Perfect" rubber wheels, wheel collars, wing weight, nylon control horn, nylon bellcrank, hinge tape, and screws.

If you send me your address I will be glad to send you our catalog. Shipping is $5.00 for one kit and $4.00 for each one after that.

Thank you Larry

So there you have it, a nice fellow, and a nice source for some hollow logs. Of particular interest is the fact that he does *hollow* them out. I would guess that the "Golden Hawk" could easily be re-worked into a "Little Mercury", "Little Devil", etc.--any of the solid wing types, starting with the basic fuselage from Larry. And his Fokker DR-1 looks like a real gem.

You can EMAIL Larry at [email protected]

Have Fun,

>Larry the Red Baron is making, by hand, some replica
>Scietific kits for some local kids and also selling mail
>order. I have the Golden Hawk, and a Silver Hawk ( a profile
>Golden Hawk). Haven't built it yet. I am flying a real
>Scientific Golden Hawk and Air Champ biplane. Neither can do
>a loop. But it's kicks. I started in 1956 with those planes.
>Larry has been invited to the Cypress (CA) Community
>Festival where the Knights of the Round Circle will fly
>demo's for the public. Sat July 26, Oak Knoll Park 5700
>Orange Ave, Cypress CA, 9 to 5. See you guys there?

Hi John...I'll be there, I hope he brings some kits too. I remember
Larry and Blackhawk Models from the early 1980's...I bought a replica
Jim Walker Fireball kit from him back then. He was kitting some other
stuff then, along with selling old stock Tornado .049's.
Larry sent me a brochure(ebay inquirey). The Kits are a steal at
his asking prices, I will turn them into Scientific lookalikes if
possible...I hope to talk with you before then...Tony Gallegos

Send me your email address and I'll forward you a scan of Balck Hawk Models catalogue - [email protected]

If you are really interested in Scientific "hollowed logs", why not go to the source and get in contact with Walter Musciano himself.
You can write or call him about getting the plans to just about any of the 1/2A planes.
Walter A. Musciano
133A Dellglen
Lodi, NJ 07644
(973) 340-9410

I doubt you can e-mail him, as he still uses a typewritter to write his books. By the way you might want to check out the website for NVCL. They have a list of most of the planes and also hold a contest each year for 1/2A Scientific "hollow logs".
http://nvclclub.tripod.com/index.htm

Along with the Musciano Contest legal kits and designs there are a bunch of fabulous built up wing models by Scientific that fly super and are many times a little larger than the solid jobs. I believe most are available though Walt.
Chris...

As most of you are aware, I have copies of over 70 Scientific plans available, along with original decals for about 27 kits. I still have hundreds of decals left.