2 Busters

LAST EDITED ON Jul-25-03 AT 10:45 PM (CDT)
 
Just got back from a session with the Buster, couldn't really do any stunts that were recognizable. I can fly ok but, the plane is a turd.

I built 2 Busters for Foxberg racing, one from a kit (not Brodak or Goldberg) and, one from scratch. The Kit built plane is the one I was flying. It has no rudder or engine offset, it has a small tip weight but, maybe not enough and, the balance point/ tether point is acordding to the Goldberg plans. It weights 40 ounces with no fuel, which I suspect is the problem. The engine (Fox 35) runs fine (5.6 sec/lap) and the loops are big but, when I go into a manuver the plane slows down and, goes slack on the lines so bad I have to step back or run. Can't do a good wing over untill it starts leaning down at the end of the tank. Why do I need so much speed to do stunts? Do I need some engine offset or, is the plane just to heavy? I will eventually build a third plane with CL stunt in mind but, I want to get something out of these Busters first.

I have flown the three Goldberg planes in the past, and with their thin airfoils, I can't see flying them as slow as 5.6. I had best performance on 60', or slightly less, lines and 4.8-5.0 lap times.
With the 40 oz weight, I think this would make flying them slower even worse. What prop are you using on the Fox? Maybe more pitch is needed. On my last one, a Cosmic Wind, I used the Fox and a 10-6(true)Rev Up wide blade, 60' eyelet to eyelet, and launched in a very fast breaking 4 cycle. As you say, it will do the wingover when it leans out, so I would get the airspeed up on the plane.
HTH
Bill

I was using a Yellow Grish Tornado 10-6 turning 9,000 on the ground. The engine was inbetween 2/4 stroke in level flight and maneuvers. It doesn't break into a 2 stroke when I pull up for a wing over, there's no 2/4/2 action going on. I have the tank about 3/8" above the center line and, it still goes a little rich on outside loops. I put the balance tube about an inch ahead of the pick up tube and, it runs very consistant through the tank. It would probably solve a few problems if I lean it out a 1/4 turn. I was going to try a 10-4 thinking that it would pull better in the turns, I don't know.

I can see where wing loading is a big deal with these stunt planes. What can I do to keep it out on the lines? I think the slower I can fly, the easier it will be to do the stunts. Should I just add more side thrust/rudder/line rake/tip weight?

Move your leadouts forward 1/4 inch.
Andrew R.

LAST EDITED ON Jul-26-03 AT 12:31 PM (CDT)
 
At just about 400 square inches, plus or minus, aerobatic models shouldn't weigh 30 Ounces, let alone 40. For that much weight, you need over 500 squares to fly at more ordinary aerobatic speeds, no matter the engine, IMO.

Fox 35 stunts don't turn up enough rpm's to use 4" pitch props; they work well with 9-6's, 10-5's, most 10-6's, and a few with some 9-7's (some will handle those for FoxBerg). A good ground speed for such engines is closer to 10,000 rpm's than to 9,000.

.
Kiwi

>I have flown the three Goldberg planes in the past, and with their
>thin airfoils

Most Sterling CL profile stuff WAS "thin", and of course some really old stuff like Zilches and Stuntwagons had the thin wings, but CGM's profile Goodyears were "medium" in comparing all the profile kits sold right up to the nadir of CL in the 1980's. It was only (comparatively) recently that the Streak got bumped from "thick airfoil" to medium, actually.

>With the 40 oz weight

That's really the crux of it right there, and while it seems there's seldom much that I don't disagree on with BB, the Buster does gain less lift by a small amount by having a lower aspect ratio wing than its stable mates. But this difference is quite small. After all, it's only 2" less wing span.

.
Kiwi

Giffy...Kiwi basically nails it(your kit Buster's problem). It is just too darned heavy. I'm curious, which kit did you use that builds so heavily? Or, what did you do that added so much weight ? Kit Busters with Fox Stunt .35s usually end up at 26 to 28 ozs. For your next Buster, a 9x6 or 9x6.5 is great for barnstorming and a 10x5-10x6 is fine for stunting. Do not worry about 5.xx sec laps, please...nor do you have to consider a 4x2x4 engine run essential either. Keep using your kit Buster in Fox Racing events;40ozs won't effect your top speed, but it will retard your acceleration
a bit. How much does your second(scratch built) Buster weigh? Good luck and have fun with them. Tony

Giffy: No offense intended, but how did it get so porky?

>Giffy: No offense intended, but how did it get so porky?
>
>Currell

You have WAY too much wing loading for the power/wing area available. I.e. you can't pull the wing fast enough thru the turns to avoid having it stall (to some extent), and start to fall off into a spin. I have seen this happen before, and had it happen to me.

John

>Giffy...Kiwi basically nails it(your kit Buster's problem).
>It is just too darned heavy.

That's a big part of the problem, but an additional factor is the very low aspect ratio of the Buster wing. This makes the drag in the corners even more onerous. To get the same performance, a Buster will have to be much lighter for the power and the wing area than another airplane with a higher aspect ratio wing.

The kit was from Control Line Classics out of Anaheim CA. All heavy wood, very hard fuselage and, I had to carve the leading and trailing edges to fit the height of the ribs, what a pain. I beefed up the motor mount alot and, it has 2 coats of monocote on most of the wing from various large patch jobs. I'm going to strip it down and see what I can do with it. It will probably resume it's racing duties if I don't scrap it.

>The kit was from Control Line Classics out of Anaheim CA.
>All heavy wood, very hard fuselage and, I had to carve the
>leading and trailing edges to fit the height of the ribs,
>what a pain. I beefed up the motor mount alot and, it has 2
>coats of monocote on most of the wing from various large
>patch jobs. I'm going to strip it down and see what I can do
>with it. It will probably resume it's racing duties if I
>don't scrap it.

Hi again Giffy, That CLC Buster was actually conceived as a Big Goodyer race machine..Morrie Leventhal probably had a bit to do with the decision; since he was primarily active in control line racing and the Goldberg Buster was a favorite design for that event back then...also Morrie was a co-partner with Tony Drago in running the CLC business( before they sold out to Brodak). I never closely inspected that particular kit, so I can't comment on kit quality; but I have many,many of their other kits and have built several too... My CLC Tomahawk weighs 22.5 ozs and my CLC Super Clown weighs 20.5 ozs..Powered by diesel .15s
they fly well and had excellent wood..my other unbuilt CLC kits have excellent wood, but I don't know about their fit. they are: Tom-Tom,Oriental,Pow-Wow,Viking and the Super Chief(Dixon design).Like I Suggested in a prior thread, use your Flitestreak. Best Regards; Tony

Brodak Buster, 28 ounces, flies great with Fox 35 and APC 9-7 on 60' .018. Has adjustable leads but holds line tension good with them in plan's position.

LAST EDITED ON Aug-02-03 AT 03:59 AM (CDT)
 
>Brodak Buster, 28 ounces, flies great with Fox 35 and APC
>9-7 on 60' .018. Has adjustable leads but holds line tension
>good with them in plan's position.

Buster joke...

Why do they call 'em Busters?

Because everytime I fly one, I ---- ---.

Groan.

Currell (who actually has done this to B's more than once).