Carsten's plans copyright

John

I am trying to find the official reference. Post '78, the rules are much, much stiffer, in favor of the designer. Currell

Now, they go 70 years past the death of the author. Currell

It's been MANY years since my one engineering law class,but if I remember correctly,unlike patents,copyrights can be renewed indefinitely.I wouldn't make a move in that direction without knowlegeable legal advice.Unless they've recently dropped them,Carstens still offers these plans for sale.I can't imagine they'd do so if they didn't own the copyright.

Proceed at your own risk!

Just last night I was looking through the AMA book on old time and classic designs and saw a few that I liked. Some of them were Model Airplane News plans. Off the top of my head, one of them was George Aldrich's Magnum. I went to the MAN plans website but it is not offered. Now that I think about it, I have never seen any them offered in the special "plans" edition of their rag they produce every year. Anybody know the story on those old MAN plans???

Sure as hell stops all mis-understandings and clears or blocks the intended use of the plans.

Best suggestion on the subject so far.

As stated earlier, since '78, there are some major changes in copyrite laws.

Most of our plans are copyrited as art work. The copyrites continue, for up to 95 years, with the rights extending to the surviving members of the originators family.

It is no longer necessary to file with the copyright office, or even have copyrite data, symbols, or notifications on the documents, though clearly in the originators best interest to include them.

The document, in this case, plans, are automatically copyrited at the moment of creation.

If the information contained on, or in your document, is important to you, you should, at the very least include the Copyrite symbol, along with your name and the date on the document.

There are a lot of special rules and such, but this is the main information we need to know about present copyrites.

You can often, by creating a new "work", with substantally, enough differences in layout and data, bypass an earlier copyrite. That's often why new drawings are made for kitting an old design. Tracings of the originals usually won't get around the copyrite, as they do not differ substantialy from the original.

More information, more closely related to the internet, and digital documents, is available at this site.

www.fplc.edu/tfield/copynet.htm

My feeling is that most copyrite holders would be open to the use, in the case of kits, of their documents. Contact them and ask permission. The worst that could happen would require you to purchase each set of plans from them. And buying them in bulk might end up costing less than copying.

I'm wondering why everything is spinning around?

John, and others, doesn't the right of first sale apply to these plans as well?

Paul

Paul , you ask a good question, and though I'm not a lawyer, (nor do I play one on TV) from what I've read on the subject, I'd answer yes.

There's one phrase that comes to mind from the Government copyrite site.

"Mere ownership of a book, manuscript, painting, or any other copy or phonorecord does not give the possessor the copyright. The law provides that transfer of ownership of any material object that embodies a protected work does not of itself convey any rights in the copyright."

Additionally, I've read that in many cases, works copyrighted proir to '78, but not having been renewed because they were still under the original copyright, were automatically extend to the 95 year limit.

As I see it, One should be very careful with this subject as most plan sets are most likely still under copyright. Those created before 1950 might have had their rights run out, if they hadn't been renewed.

Now, for a taste of reality. Though most model airplane plans are likely still protected, it may be still possible to use them for this kind of purpose. Unless the copyright owner specifically forbids the use. Most of the OT and Classic designers are just happy that their work is getting notice.

It's also a fact that some of the companies that manufactured kits, or were holding copyrights are defunct. They or their principles are no longer around. Few people will complaign when the plans for these kits are used.

There are some of these old companies that have been purchased by others. In some cases they may hold the rights, but I think it more likely that they don't as the original company possibly never owned the copyrite. This was held by the originator, and unless he sold the copyright, or produced the work "for hire", he retained the rights.

The best policy would still be to ask, in the first case in this post, Carstens. In the case you mentioned, I would think the fellow could have some problems should the copyright holder decide to pursue it.

This is one of the reasons I mentioned creating a new work, with enough differences in layout and data, as being one way to work around the original copyright.

I'm wondering why everything is spinning around?

I have that article, by the way. Nice model.

Larry is WAY ahead of me on this it seems. Considering the quality of the work he does, it would be a great loss if the Kawasaki Ki-61 (Tony) profile never was kitted by him. Nobody else has ever done this particular model- it is, as Currell pointed out, a very pretty airplane.

All that great info. is integrated into the design as published by FM. The model is an EXACT scale-down of the 35-size model with the exceptions of the internal structure of the rear fuselage, landing gear angle (mounting is correct, just swing the gear forward instead of aft for the original position) and wingtip construction.

If I was to build another one, I would scale my plans up by about 10% to be powered by a .061 instead of a .049. That would put the area up around the 250 sq.in. target that seems to work well.

BTW, everyone who got to fly my original loved its performance. (When the engine worked....)

I really liked my ME-109 from about the same time. It, too, was powered by an Enya .35. I flew mine with the R/C carburetor still on it and used three lines to control the engine speed. Slow speed stunt and touch and go as well as full stop landings were great fun, but the real show stoppers were the wingovers where I chopped the throttle at about 75° to 80° on the way up. The spectators would gasp (thinking that the bird was about to drop out of the sky and onto my head) as the plane flew over the top and continued slowly downward, pulling out at four feet to land in a quarter circle. The plane is still flying (flyable) and is now hangared in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley. See:

http://www.geocities.com/dwwsmw52/page4.html

We had some good times here flying with Dave Wittich, Tom Stelter, Ken Snyder, Gary Fancher and others. Although I have some good, new flying buddies, I would certainly like to fly with that group again. Alas,it will not happen, though. Sigh!

Sorry about the disconnect from the topic, guys.