Fuel Proof CA glue?

Yesterday, I had a conversation with a fellow that works at the LHS. He was trying to sell me some CA glue for general construction. I mentioned that I'd read on the forum that CA was not fuel proof, and the nitro in the fuel would deteriorate it badly. He said:" It is fuel proof. I've been in modeling for 40 years, and I use CA to fuel proof bare wood--it works fine!" I thought that seems passing strange, given the level of experience of most contributors to the forum. Did I mis read something?? Thanks

Ask what the guy uses as a debonder. I think most debonders are nitromethane.

No, you read the posts correctly. The misunderstanding arises by the definition of "fuel proof". The issue with CA is the fuels nitro content. The very companies that produce CA often sell a "debonder" for CA that is mostly nitromethane. Since many fuels don't have a lot of nitro, contact with CA surfaces may not have much of an effect. You probably don't spill a lot of raw fuel on unpainted glued surfaces anyway, so the problem is minimal. But, the bottom line is that a constituent of most model fuel (nitro) will in fact soften or weaken a CA joint with enough exposure. The fact that he hasn't had that experience in "forty years" doesn't mean he's tested the compatibility of the materials under all conditions other modelers may experience.

I would imagine that bigger problem for most people building stunters is the effect of nitro on top finish coats, and the longer term effect of castor oil on structure.

Bill Groman

Greatcircle,

That fellow's 40-plus years of experience doesn't seem to stack up too well against the combined experiences of those on this site. CA is soluble in nitromethane. Fact. That he and quite a lot of people have no discernible problems with low-nitro fuel on CA glue joints does not change things.

In my RC days, I used to quick build kits on occasion. I often used thick CA to glue in the firewalls. Most planes didn't last long enough, but when the occasionally lucky steak occurred, The first thing to fail were those CA'd firewalls. It was the death of the plane as the fuel had soaked in to the point that even with the use of degreasers, I couldn't get a good bond to make the repair.

What does all this mean? CA is not fuel proof to the extent Epoxy is. Using it in the wrong locations, will cause premature failure of the joint.

If you plan on having, and using your model for many flights, use the correct glue for the location.

I'm wondering why everything is spinning around?

The first thing to fail were those CA'd
>firewalls. It was the death of the plane as the fuel had
>soaked in to the point that even with the use of degreasers,
>I couldn't get a good bond to make the repair.
>
>What does all this mean? CA is not fuel proof to the extent
>Epoxy is.

Could it has been simple fact that the firewall was not properly sealed, and that even if it was epoxy'd it still would have failed due to oil soak?

Be very careful of "X years of experience". You could do something forty times in one year and say you had forty years experience, and some have done this in other areas. He is a salesman, selling a product he stocks, so naturally he will "give" you the benefit of his "experience". Don't you just love the play on words or with words to make it sound real or right?

Being a Nitro Burner (Carrier Flyer) I use nitro all the time to clean CA off of my fingers. However I use it to build with. What does this mean? I make sure that any joints that fuel can get to are protected with fuel proof paint.
Bill

I've used CA for a sealer also and never had a problem with it, I've never seen it turn soft, discolor, etc. while I have with epoxy. I don't think epoxy holds up as well when exposed to oil or sun light for along time as well as CA. I think the oil attacking the glue is the bigger consern. Has anybody done any tests?

I don't think CA model glue was around 40 years ago.

Nitro will melt CA but, acetone works faster.

Yep, it has been around for a long time. In fact, the Boeing 707 was partially assembled with Eastman 910. The man that told me this worked for Boeing and said that if the public ever heard of this they would freak out. He told me of the jokes they would play on each other using a drop or two of this ACC as it was then called.

LAST EDITED ON Aug-13-03 AT 04:47 AM (CDT)
 
Eastman 910 was used to repair memory core planes in computers also. I think Satelite City's Hot-Stuff was the first for modeling use though.
I think the key to using CA (or CyA) is to use it in places where it is not exposed to nitro or oil, as mentioned previously.

The
>man that told me this worked for Boeing and said that if the
>public ever heard of this they would freak out.

I worked for Boing and I was freaking out every day at the morons and drunks that work in that place. I'll never set foot in an airplane again.

> The
>>man that told me this worked for Boeing and said that if the
>>public ever heard of this they would freak out.
>
>I worked for Boing and I was freaking out every day at the
>morons and drunks that work in that place. I'll never set
>foot in an airplane again.

THEY're morons and drunks, and you can't spell it right?
Sammy

>I don't think CA model glue was around 40 years ago.
>
>Nitro will melt CA but, acetone works faster.

I have a copy of the 1965 American Modeler Annual issue in which they discuss this tiny bottle of Eastman #910 adhesive ($10 per ounce) which would glue your fingers together in mere seconds.

CA was developed (or at least used initially) for patching up battlefield wounds during Vietnam.

It's been around awhile - perhaps not dedicated for modeling but it was available back then.

>>I don't think CA model glue was around 40 years ago.
>>
>>Nitro will melt CA but, acetone works faster.
>
>I have a copy of the 1965 American Modeler Annual issue in which they discuss this tiny bottle of Eastman #910 adhesive ($10 per ounce) which would glue your fingers together in mere seconds.
>
>CA was developed (or at least used initially) for patching up battlefield wounds during Vietnam.
>
>It's been around awhile - perhaps not dedicated for modeling but it was available back then.

Actually, CyA (or CA) was discovered in 1942. It was re-discovered by Eastman in 1951.
I understand it is currently being used in surgery, mostly in Europe.
So says my search engine

> Yesterday, I had a conversation with a fellow that works at
>the LHS. He was trying to sell me some CA glue for general
>construction. I mentioned that I'd read on the forum that CA
>was not fuel proof, and the nitro in the fuel would
>deteriorate it badly. He said:" It is fuel proof. I've been
>in modeling for 40 years, and I use CA to fuel proof bare
>wood--it works fine!" I thought that seems passing strange,
>given the level of experience of most contributors to the
>forum. Did I mis read something?? Thanks

CA is definately not fuel proof and not really very oil proof.

Ask me how I know. Ever see a motor crutch come out of a fuselage? Twice?

I also use CA to finish props. I still need to dope them if the finish is to really last. Anything near the engine need epoxy.

>
>I also use CA to finish props. I still need to dope them if
>the finish is to really last. Anything near the engine need
>epoxy.

You can also glue a "Caravelle" together

In Christ,

It was used in Vietnam to close up wounds as far back as 1960.I used it in the office equipment business on postage machine belts in 1962.Eastman 910 had a very short shelf life and it was $10.00 for a very small bottle maybe 1/8 oz.
Ed Ruane

LAST EDITED ON Aug-13-03 AT 09:38 PM (CDT)
 
Satellite City brought out "Hot Stuff" just over 30 years ago. They were the first to sell it for hobby use, and at first it was only available direct by mail order, for about $8.50 per 1/2 oz, as I recall. It's still my favorite "thin stuff", but I liked Goldberg's "thick stuff" better. Fresh is important. I've known guys to fix their leaks (chopped fingers, etc) for most that time. But nobody thought it was fuel proof or good for gluing on firewalls.
By the way, epoxy's failing is lack of resistance to ultraviolet.
Steve