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Building foam core wings

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Jim Brooks · Sep 03, 2003 10:47 AM

#0 source
I've tried searching for instructions re building foam core wings without much luck. Can anybody direct me to a discussion, or instructions about building light foam cored wings.
What I know now. 1# foam (but where do I get it)
1/20" sheet covering. Mounting bell crank and joining wing halves.
Core out after attaching sheeting with Titebond. Finish with 00 paper and Min Wax
What I don't know.
Spar dimensions. When, how to install spar. How to mount wing mounted gear. Leading edge methods (solid, or wraparound sheet)

Help !!!

Jim Brooks

LNeumann · Sep 03, 2003 11:34 AM

#1 source
>I've tried searching for instructions re building foam core
>wings without much luck. Can anybody direct me to a
>discussion, or instructions about building light foam cored
>wings.
>What I know now. 1# foam (but where do I get it)
>1/20" sheet covering. Mounting bell crank and joining wing
>halves.
>Core out after attaching sheeting with Titebond. Finish
>with 00 paper and Min Wax
>What I don't know.
>Spar dimensions. When, how to install spar. How to mount
>wing mounted gear. Leading edge methods (solid, or
>wraparound sheet)
>
>Help !!!
>
>Jim Brooks

Much of what you are asking is choice. I would agree with 1/20 sheeting, but others use light 1/16 or even 1/32. I would not agree with the MinWax finish, but that is choice. I definitely do not agree with using Titebond for attaching the cores. My choice would be epoxy, although there are other glues that do work well (And those using them can chime in.) Although you can probably purchase foam at your local home center or lumber yard, mail order is not too efficient. (Hey, if they pack other things in styrofoam to ship it, what do they pack styrofoam in?) And if you have never cut wings before, expect to ruin a bunch before you get it down. My suggestion would be to order a wing from one of the suppliers who cut foam wings. They will cut the spars for you and will even install the plywood spars if you so desire. And, although wraparound leading edges can be used on built up wings, I don't know of anyone who does this with foam.

Check with someone who makes foam wings and he can probably answer all of your questions.

F4FGuy · Sep 03, 2003 04:32 PM

#3 source
>>
>
>Much of what you are asking is choice. I would agree with
> And, although wraparound leading edges can be
>used on built up wings, I don't know of anyone who does this
>with foam.
>
>Check with someone who makes foam wings and he can probably
>answer all of your questions.

Ron B.
F4Fguy
I've been doing this since my first foamies in ~1960/65it's easy and fast,but does require a great deal of care to avoid warpage.It builds light,strong and fast.I've used both 1/20"and 1/32" 5-6#balsa and have never had a failure I could ascribe to either the wrapped LE.or the skin thickness.I have had some delam failures using epoxy or aliphatic.

As far as adhesives go,I've used epoxy,several different contact cements,and aliphatic resin.Properly applied I see no difference in the end product.Any of them can get heavy in a heartbeat if over-applied.The one I like best is 3M auto trim cement in an aerosol can.It is a little harder to use but is much stronger than 3M77,and has a longer open time.It also allows straightening MINOR warps while not fully cured.When cured it retains some flexibility to transfer the stresses to the foam.I know most people like epoxy in this application,but IM(NS)HO it's subject to delamination due to the extreme difference in strength and hardness at the bond line,and the fact that if you apply enough to penetrate the crevices of the foam you have applied tooooo much.Aliphatic has much the same problem to a lesser degree.I've tried the "iron on"method with aliphatic,but again, to get a reliable bond,you have to apply too much adhesive.

Lately I've been using"Spider Foam"for cores it's heavier(~2#vs1#)than bead foam,but it cuts more accurately and since it's almost four times as strong in compression,will accept higher bagging pressure.Because of the higher strength it can be cored much thinner so the core weight is comparable to 1# bead foam.

For sheeting I use only 4#-6# A grain.The grain is Very important,especially if you decide to wrap the leading edge,but even if you don't it's still important.Light C grain is too brittle for this application.Since the major stresses are spanwise,A grain is the only choice.

Regardless of which method you choose,I would advise laying out the skins with the leading edge at the angle of the core LE and the trailing edge lined up with the core TE,then piece in the center of the skin running spanwise.This gives a useful increase in torsional strength.

Edge glue the skins on a FLAT surface(top,bottom,& LE if wrapping)and trim to no more than 1/2"oversize re the core.Do all your sanding with the skins flat.If you have a good core with no ripples,this will yield the most uniform skin after installation.This operation is almost mandatory with 1/32"skins to avoid localised thin spots.
Note:For wrapped LE,be sure there no joints within 1"-1 1/2"of the LE center.

The procedure for solid LE has been thoroughly covered by others.I'll try to describe the way I do the wraparound.
(1.)make sure the core is smooth.If not,sand with a sanding bar at least as long as the core until it is.If your'e using bead foam,you'll need fairly coarse paper,80-100 grit.
(2.)Vacuum the core until NO dust remains.
(3.)Mark the centerline of the leading edge skin on both sides of the skin(use a water proof marker)being careful not to score the outside.
(4.)Wet the outside of the LE sheet only,and turn it over(if your work surface is absorbent,lay a strip of wet newspaper under the LE areato keep it damp.
(5.)Apply the adhesive of choice to the entire skin and core.If you're using contact cement,allow it to gas off thoroughly,usually about 5-10 min.When its tacky to the touch,but doesn't pull up from the skin,its ready.Lay waxed paper over all but the LE sheet.
(6.)With the skin flat on the board,line up the center of the core LE at the root with the corresponding centerline of the skin(be very careful to only allow point to point contact).Then line up the tip centers and slowly lower the core to contact the full length.
Note:at this point you only have line contact ,so repositioning is still possible.
(7.)While applying light pressure,slowly rock the core back and forth chordwise.The skin will begin to wrap around a little bit with each rock.Go slowly,to ensure an even wrap.
(8.)When you've almost reached the waxed paper,start moving the waxed paper as you go until its out.
(9.)Trim the skins to the cores, place the assembly back in the shucks and weight as evenly as possible for at least 24 hr.Or place the assembly in a vacuum bag at ~10-12"vacuumfor 12hr.
(10.)Trim and sand the TE and glue on the balsa TE.Applymasking tape to the skin adjacent to the TE and shape the TE remove masking and final sand.

One final note:If you do the wrap with other than contact cement,be watchful for the core trying to"squirt"out of the skin leaving a void at the LE.This is especially a problem if bagging.For other adhesives,use lower vacuum,i.e.5"-7".Also be sure to blot or squeegee off ALL excess adhesive.

Ron B.

Jim Brooks · Sep 04, 2003 10:15 AM

#7 source
Ron

Thanks for this info. In all my searching I came across a picture of the spar you used, but , how do you mount the gear?

Also, someone alluded to a photo or description of your shock absorbing gear. Can you tell me where to find this discussion?

Thanks

F4FGuy · Sep 04, 2003 01:03 PM

edited#9 source
>Ron
>
>Thanks for this info. In all my searching I came across a
>picture of the spar you used, but , how do you mount the
>gear?
>
>Also, someone alluded to a photo or description of your
>shock absorbing gear. Can you tell me where to find this
>discussion?
>
>Thanks

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Jim:
The spar your'e refering to was for an all composite laminate wing which was molded over a foam buck,but was not a foam wing.The photo shows the spar assembly with the gear blocks and four ribs that make up the entire internal structure.In a foam wing it's hard to beat the "two clips and a block" that Bobby Hunt designed years ago.The only "improvement" I add to that is another short block at the top to extend the torsional lever arm.

The shock gear is on my Zero.It consists of a molded carbon fork,and two telescoping tubes,a spring,and an"o"ring.Two end caps serve to seal internally and externally.The outer is also the mounting to a stub wire in the wing.It is very much a development project,and still has some bugs,the main one being stickiness.I'm going to try plating the inner tube to cure this.All in all I wouldn't recommend trying this unless you can put up with a lot of fussiness.

Ron B.

Jim Brooks · Sep 04, 2003 01:49 PM

#10 source
.In a foam wing it's hard to beat the "two clips
>and a block" that Bobby Hunt designed years ago.The only
>"improvement" I add to that is another short block at the
>top to extend the torsional lever arm.

Sorry Ron, but I'm a little too thick to understand this. Is there a drawing somewhere, or maybe a more detailed verbal description of "two clips and a block"?

F4FGuy · Sep 05, 2003 07:18 PM

#11 source
> .In a foam wing it's hard to beat the "two clips
>>and a block" that Bobby Hunt designed years ago.The only
>>"improvement" I add to that is another short block at the
>>top to extend the torsional lever arm.
>
>
>Sorry Ron, but I'm a little too thick to understand this.
>Is there a drawing somewhere, or maybe a more detailed
>verbal description of "two clips and a block"?

Ron B.
F4Fguy

I hope the attached dwg. from Stan Powell's "Dove" article in Sept.'83 Model Aviation will explain the two clips & a block L.G.mount.As you can see each gear is supported by two lite ply partial ribs slotted into the core,and a standard grooved maple gear block slotted into the ribs and the core.The components are assembled to the core and finished flush to it before skinning.The back ends of the riblets are attached to the stub spar.This mounting efficiently distributes and transfers the loads to the skin.

Hope this helps,

Ron B.

Warren · Sep 03, 2003 12:24 PM

#2 source
>I've tried searching for instructions re building foam core
>wings without much luck. Can anybody direct me to a
>discussion, or instructions about building light foam cored
>wings.

Jim,

Building foam wings is not difficult, it just requires learning a difference bunch of techniques. You will have to do a bit research to answer all your question, but it's worth the effort. They are really quite fun to build.

It would certainly be best if you had someone locally to walk you through the process, or for you to be able to watch someone that is building one. That's the fastest way to learn.

Here is a link to Dan Wihship's web site and his discussion on building a foam wing. Dan is a real craftsman, and this will be a good start for you:


http://winshipmodels.tripod.com/foam_wings.htm

One work of caution. It you use contact cement to adhere the skins on, use extreme care in alignment...you can build in a warp and ruin a form core/skin in seconds. Then, obviously it becomes SCRAP, and you have to start over.

Good luck and have fun.

Cheers.

Warren W

Proparc · Sep 04, 2003 12:56 AM

#4 source
Windy has excellent videos on working with foam cores. His videos do not show you how to make foam wings but everything you need to do once you get the cores. I have made quite a few foam wings from scratch for myself and built a number of stunt ships with them. I find them somewhat difficult to make and my experience tends to coincide with Windy's experience. In order to get about the same strength as a good built up wing, the foam wings seem to come out heavier. Nevertheless, it is hard to beat the dead-on accuracy of a well made foam wing. In addition, once you make them straight, they stay that way irrespectice of climate etc. I was completely amazed as to the rock steady flight characteristics and excellent tracking of my foam wing ships. It took a lot of fancy built-up wing-jigs to equal them.

Steve Helmick · Sep 04, 2003 01:35 AM

#5 source
I am pretty sure that Crist Rigotti uses molded LE's on his foam wings. How he could cut a radius on the core is beyond me. He does sell cores, but doesn't put in spars or LG "clips"; I asked. Good prices!

I bought a foam wing from Jim Duncan (see Windy's website) and would recommend his work. I got it with spars (lite ply). I meant to get the LG clips, but that can be done with a bandsaw. Basically, you put a set of lite ply false ribs in each side to transfer the torque from the LG into the spars and sheeting. The vertical anchor for the leg is alongside the inboard rib.

I'm working my courage up to doing this foam wing, and intend to use the Titebond URETHANE glue, as recommended by Godzilla and others. Even got some bricks to stack on the husks. What I haven't figured out, is where to set all this to cure, as the wing will still not be any straighter than the bench or floor it's sitting on. Steve

LNeumann · Sep 04, 2003 07:52 AM

#6 source
?What I haven't figured out, is where to set all this
>to cure, as the wing will still not be any straighter than
>the bench or floor it's sitting on. Steve

A pool table. I built my first ones on a pool table.

F4FGuy · Sep 04, 2003 12:32 PM

#8 source
>I am pretty sure that Crist Rigotti uses molded LE's on his
>foam wings. How he could cut a radius on the core is beyond
>me.> >
>
Ron B.
F4Fguy

As I said in my earlier post,I've been doing this for years.The LE is molded in situ as the skin is applied.

Cutting the nose radius is also easy.You simply cut the entire shape in a single cut from TE to LE and back to TE.With the single point cutting setup it's a piece of cake.It's even easier with the computerized cutters that some guys have built from scrap plotters.

Ron B.

builditright · Sep 05, 2003 07:45 PM

#12 source