Cloth hinges and CA

On smaller planes with thinner control surfaces, slotting and installing nylon hinges doesn't seem practical without replacing the wood with thicker stock. So I'm using cloth hinges and thought I'd try using CA to put them on, instead of the old fashioned glue that takes too long to dry. Any thoughts on this? Am I looking for problems by trying it?

Tried it once with medium CA. Didn't work too well, fingers stick when trying to put a corner down, messy, hard to sand. Testors extra fast drying works real well, sands OK, and drys in less time than it takes to write this. It may be a little hard to find locally, but Brodak's has it.

Dope doesnt really like to go over CA.

I like Ambroid. Even yellow carpenters glue should work well.

Just my experiences.

OK, I suppose I should have posted this question last week. Now it's actually 'after the fact'. I used thin CA to put the cloth hinges on the recently completed Jr Flite Streak. It seemed to wick throught the cloth and into the wood just fine, and acually flattened out the cloth as it soaked in. No stuck fingers, just a little hardened glue on the finger tips. Don't stop moving your fingers when wiping! Sanded o.k., just required a little more effort than the rest of the tail surface. I wasn't aware that dope doesn't stick well to CA. I haven't noticed any problems yet with the clear, but the color isn't on yet. I guess for future builds I'll try to stick with the other glue types. I'll let you know how this turns out.

Thanks
Tim

I put on cloth hinges with Balsarite. Brush on the Balsarite (I thin it with acetone) & then iron the hinges on. Once they're all in place brush a coat or two of thinned Balsarite through the cloth.
Any time you use CA in a place where you have to rub it in (fiberglass for one example) put a piece of plastic baggie (or equivilent) over your fingertip. You can work it around all you want & it won't stick to the plastic wrap at all.
In my experience, most of the time (not always) when people say paint, dope or whatever won't stick to something, it's because they didn't properly SAND the something first!

Nils Said:
>In my experience, most of the
>time (not always) when people
>say paint, dope or whatever
>won't stick to something, it's
>because they didn't properly SAND
>the something first!
>
>Nils

As usual, Nils is absolutely correct! Most paint systems we all would ever use, depend upon a mechanical linking to the substrate. Sanding is really the only easy way to get this surface roughness to "key" the new paint to.

My comment regarding dope over CA wasnt really about it not sticking though. Every time I've tried to do it, sanded or not, it seems to make the dope kindof fish-eye away from areas covered with the CA. Like Nils said tho, Could be that I havnt dulled up the CA well enough. Almost appears like I waxed the CA area.

Please do let us know how it ends up however.

Curt

PS: Nils: Wouldnt ya know it: just when I went and ordered the Macs muffler and Tornado 10-4 three bl for the FP .40, everyone is out of stock? Did finally get the muffler after three weeks--props due mid july?

LAST EDITED ON Jul-13-01 AT 08:35 PM (EST)

Curt- Don't look now, but I think this IS mid July My LHS has the 10-4 three blade Tornado's in stock (did have not long ago anyway), if you don't get one fairly soon I can send you one.
In the mean time you might try an 11-4 APC two blade.

Thanks Nils:

I've got an 11-4 APC and I've been running an 11-5 APC. That was the emergency plan. I'll get to try it this afternoon or in the AM. I'll also call Brodaks since the list them in catalog.

My LHS' dont stock ANY Grish products! Not expensive enought I guess!

I'll let you know, but thanks for the offer.

Well, the Jr Streak is ready to go. The dope seemed to have no problem sticking to the CA'd surface. I guess sanding is the key to that problem. Plane finished out at just a hair under 17 oz., ready to fly.
First flight may be tonight. If the elevator departs the rest of the plane I'll be sure to let everyone know.
I got some good advice and ideas from posting this question. Thanks to all of you who replied.
Tim

Tim,
I seem to remember having used cloth hinges and CA on a slow combat ship a number of years ago. The elevator parted with the airplane while it was still fairly new. In all fairness, the elevator was quite large and the airplane was moving along at 85+mph. All subsequent models used the 3/4" fiberglass tape from CG. I have not had any problems with this combination.
Nils does make a very good point about using a bag over your finger for rubbing in the glues-prevents the dreaded CA skin..
The Granite State iron-on hinge has given me very good luck on various CL models. It seems to work best on the tail surfaces and seals the seam as well. I had a Twister on which I did full length hinges with this material. Very difficult to keep everything in line. On a subsequent build (Banshee) I used 3 smaller pieces to attach each flap with great success. Just some food for thought.

John

I sew the hinges using an elongated " W " pattern, got it from " Aeromodeler " many years ago.
I use light nylon fishing line, I have heard of people ( Jim Thomerson ?? ) using dental floss, which sounds promising.
I know a lot of you don't like this, VERY hard to hide, but it could be done.
Me, I don't care what it looks like as long as it works.
Different strokes for different folks.

"Veco" Joe Wagner has used this technique for MANY years, says it is his favourite (calls it "baseball stitch hinges"), It does work well, I will grant.

I almost always use cloth hinges on everything. Sigment works WELL, so does Ambroid and Testors. Forget about CyA, and the water-based glues; the cellulose-based "old-timey" model airplane glues are the only way to go with cloth hinges. Pre-glue (if you don't know what this means, return to class) the hinge area, install on one half (elevator usually for me), then on the second half (the stab). Use masking tape and a flat surface, and you will get a neat, near gapless joint. Cover the surfaces with silkspan and dope, and it will last as long as the model will (LONG time, done correctly!).

Say JAK,
I've had fine luck with Duco as well. What are your thoughts on keeping from getting too much dope in the hinge line and fouling the hinges? Once or twice I've had a hinge break because the paint made the cloth stiff enough to fracture. If there is a gap between the groups of hinges, I may run a sliver of sandpaper through the slot to keep things as free as possible.
Kelvin

>I almost always use cloth hinges
>on everything. Sigment works WELL,
>so does Ambroid and Testors.
>Forget about CyA, and the
>water-based glues; the cellulose-based "old-timey"
>model airplane glues are the
>only way to go with
>cloth hinges. Pre-glue (if you
>don't know what this means,
>return to class) the hinge
>area, install on one half
>(elevator usually for me), then
>on the second half (the
>stab). Use masking tape and
>a flat surface, and you
>will get a neat, near
>gapless joint. Cover the surfaces
>with silkspan and dope, and
>it will last as long
>as the model will (LONG
>time, done correctly!).
>
>JAK

Work 'em back and forth, all the time as you go.
I have an AJ "Firebrat" many years old (just one example), and cloth hinges (Sig dope), you can push the tip of the elevator gently with the tip of your little finger, and the whole control system will move with ease through the whole range, and return to start when you let go. It had several rubbed in coats of glue (on the hinges) and many coats dope. NO friction, NO sticking.
Sanding the gap is an extreme measure if needed. If you cover with silkspan, and dope it right, and keep moving the "hinges" as you go, you will be surprised at how free the controls will be in the end.

Oh by the way, I forgot, but if you want a real trick set up for using the nylon hinges on thin surfaces (say 1/8", although actually they will work GREAT on any of them); just use a laninate of two pieces of 1/16" balsa, with a core of 1/64" plywood (just happens to be near the same thickness as most of the nylon hinge tabs) notched at appropriate places for the hinges. VERY stiff, light too, and you have a "built-in" centerline when sanding so you can get an even shape.
It is REAL simple, and you can install the hinges after finishing, they are accurately aligned, and no slotting headaces.

Jak,
That is a great idea for all sizes and Thicknesses of stab, elevator, flap and wing TE. I use 1/32 balsa in mine and it seems to be the correct thickness for the r/c pin hinge types. I sand the hinge line and cut the slots for the hinge barrel after it's all together.

Jak,
That is a great idea for all sizes and Thicknesses of stab, elevator, flap and wing TE. I use 1/32 balsa in mine and it seems to be the correct thickness for the r/c pin hinge types. I sand the hinge line and cut the slots for the hinge barrel after it's all together.