ARF Nobler upgrade:

Can I get a list of upgrade parts and brand name hardware to upgrade a arf Nobler, specify lead out lines, bellcrank, conecting rods gas tanks Ect. I would like to get one of these but looking at everyones post I can see many added quality better upgrading parts then what comes with the kit. Also any trim specs. Thanks!

>Can I get a list of upgrade parts and brand name hardware to
>upgrade a arf Nobler, specify lead out lines, bellcrank,
>conecting rods gas tanks Ect. I would like to get one of
>these but looking at everyones post I can see many added
>quality better upgrading parts then what comes with the kit.
>Also any trim specs. Thanks!

lots of views but no ideas?
I'm thinking of Tom Morris rods and belcrank. If you change the bellcrank and lead out wires, is it needed to install an adjustable lead out guide? And how much of the covering do you have to cut to do that? Please anyone know

Change the leadouts (get from Sullivan, Sig, or Brodak--I think the 75 lb stuff is ok- or go to solid music wire), slip a carbon tube over the supplied rod, put on engine and go fly!

GSCB member Doug Bennadetti made the installation of an adjustable pushrod fairly easily. He added external horns nd uses a cf rod that had a clevis on one end.

See Ya

LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-03 AT 09:33 AM (CDT)
 
I flew two of the ARFs a couple week ends back and neither one needed a lot in the way of upgrades to be fine flyers. What both did need was the same thing that scratch built ones need, accuracy of assembly and attention to detail.

The most important single thing that a buyer/flyer can do to maximize his chances of a good flying machine are: 1 Be absolutely critical about alignment when gluing the big pieces together...a jig would be nice but careful measurement and a few levels and incidence meters while doing so are almost mandatory; 2. be very critical of the hinge installation ... preferably, replace the stock hinges with pinned ones that don't cause control drag and when you glue them in, separate the flaps and elevators from the wing and stab with about two playing cards between each hinge to insure a constant hinge gap and, more importantly, to make sure that the surfaces are far enough apart to allow full control movement.

The two airplanes I flew suffered from one each of the above problems and will need to have them corrected before the ships will be remotely competent flyers.

The suggested changes are worth discussing, but these two items are musts because the key word in ARF is "almost".

Oops, just remembered.

One last item. Be sure to cut a large enough air outlet in the cowl to insure adequate airflow for cooling. The outlet should be near the back of the cowl and be at least twice the area of the inlet. This is because you'll heat up the incoming air with engine heat and that causes air to expand so it needs more area to exiet than to enter.

Trapped air will simply get hotter and hotter and will cause engine run problems.

Ted,
The instructions show a photo as to what the cowl openings should look like. They seem to be as large as any that I have seen of other installations (like the "real" Nobler!).

>2. be very critical of the hinge installation ... preferably, replace the stock hinges with pinned ones that don't cause control drag and when you glue them in, separate the flaps and elevators from the wing and stab with about two playing cards between each hinge to
>insure a constant hinge gap and, more importantly, to make sure that the surfaces are far enough apart to allow full control movement.

After installing the hinges be sure to seal the hinge lines, based on wind tunnel tests I've seen a small gap the size Ted is describing decreases the control forces by up to 50%.

>The two airplanes I flew suffered from one each of the above
>problems and will need to have them corrected before the
>ships will be remotely competent flyers.
>

Did Jerry's plane turn significantly different insude/outside? I know, simply from watching, that Jim's airplane turned drastically harder outide. But Jerry's seemed reasonably decent.

Good post Ted,

After having built (put together) one ARF Nobler, flight trimming it as best I could and discovering what I did wrong, I now know what it will take to make my second one great. The first one isn't that bad but can be better.

Replace the fuel tank with a 4 ounce tank of your liking. You can check the past threads for what some of us used and how we did it. The control system is fine as-is with the exception of the leadouts. The easiest is to replace them with .032 solids. Put a carbon fiber rod over the elevator push rod. I didn't do this on my first and have not noticed any ill effects but will do it on the second one just to be sure. Follow Ted's advice on alignment and hinges. Get some help with flight trimming from someone that knows and go fly the heck out of it.

Curious, since no one mentioned adjustable leadouts, but are there holes in the ribs only, and not enough space to allow for adjustment? If someone were recovering the wing I would consider this essential, and would still be a good retrofit if one is replacing the leadouts (also essential). I would also think adding some kind of tip weight box (remove any weight already there) would also be good. Otherwise it is hard to trim when there is nothing to adjust.

Oh, maybe add a wart to the outboad flap if adding the tip weight box. Did anyone mention adding a wart?

You would almost have to completely replace/rebuild the wing tip, plus take most of the covering off the inboard wing to open up the rib slots in order to install adjustable leadouts.

The factory tip weight is really close and I didn't change it one bit. One can get as elaborate as one wants but off the board it will fly better than most Intermediates have ever known so why bother.

I did move my leadouts forward and closer together during final trim but used the old cut (actually heat) and re-glue method to put them just aft of the final CG. The only trim issue mine has is caused from me not checking the incidences of the wing, engine, and stab when I put it together

Hi Greg. The only name brand item I used was a Brodaks fuel tank, part #BH-489. (not BR-549) It is a 4 oz tank and too big for my Brodak .40. It is so economical on fuel that I got in a ten minute flight at our fly in, and got dizzy and almost sick to my stomach. Of course 4 second laps for that long will make most old men dizzy.
Of note is the comments about getting the wing and stab true to the line of thrust. Mine has just enough incidence to cause it to constantly climb. Loops become overheads. My intent is to get another and do it more carefully. I was too impressed with the way the ARF went together and did not really apply any care, just threw it together with contempt, now that I look back on it. Which explains why it flys so "contemptedly" (is that woid?).

I know this suggestion isn't "ideal", but can't you just adjust the elevator to flap pushrod to offset some of this climbing tendency? I assume you mean the insides are much more open than the insides. Likewise you could also shim the engine to the wing incidence.

I am curious as too how far off people are finding the incidences to be. I would be surprised if it is so far off that you couldn't make some type of kludge to get the flying characteristics in the ball park.

In my case my wing is take-apart, so I could always adjust it if necessary (or you could argue that I have a different airplane everytime I take the wing off ).