Hyper Viper over hyped?

I just checked Tower for the shipment of the Hyper Viper. They had indicated that it was really close. Now, suddenly, it is pushed back to December!

I figured they couldn't do it without Mikey! I wonder how much they will screw it up without him to keep them straight.

Gee, with any luck, it will fly about as well as the last "Hyper Viper" they produced. ( can you spell P.O.S. ?)

Gee, nice tone.

We are getting the final touches put on this product at the moment. One of those things where this products development was sidelined for more pressing concerns.

Final PP samples should arrive within the coming couple of weeks, there were a couple of things to fix. Then there is production and shipping time. I won't hazard a guess as to the on-shelf date

Scott

LAST EDITED ON Oct-10-03 AT 06:59 PM (CDT)
 
Quite right, but I have my reasons Give my regards to Barry.

But enough of that. Frankly, I hope the model will be all it can be. It has the potential to be significantly better than the first version of the Super Stunter if all is done correctly.

The modeling public deserves a model that flies well, and the specifications originally given indicate a real winner. Good luck with your vendors!

I'm wondering why nothing shows on the Estes site under new planes? Looks like they haven't updated since they brought the J-3 back.

SCOTT

THANKS FOR UPDATE. YOU CAN COUNT ME IN FOR ONE.

I am wondering when Estes is going to bring out an ARF Ringmaster

LAST EDITED ON Oct-10-03 AT 07:01 PM (CDT)
 
Bob- you took the words right out of my mouth....Estes need a ARF Ringmaster. If it was a good quality product, it would be cool!

>Bob- you took the words right out of my mouth....Estes need
>a ARF Ringmaster. If it was a good quality, it would be
>cool!

Almost as much as a gorilla needs a set of nail clippers...

Jake

Well, the Ringmaster is THE OT "standard", but there are much better OT profiles out there. The Super Clown comes to mind. And, in fact, even a light weight standard Clown with a hot .099 on it would be a winner.

I'll bet Brodak has the bucks to handle an initial order of ARFs. As I recall, about 1000 units were what C*x ordered at a time. Say $25 mfr price, and $5 shipping average, and he has a landed cost around $35 with duty. Shucks, a dozen average modelers pooling their resources could scare up that kind of money!

Of course Top Flite is the current champeen on the ARF scene, and they have Classic and Profile 40 covered. Now we need some killer OT model!

Last I check the Nobler is OTS legal.
Jay

>Last I check the Nobler is OTS legal.

The Brodak '52 Nobler is OTS legal. The TF ARF, based on the Green Box ('57) is not.

So which one it the Tower Nobler?

The Tower Nobler is supposed to be based on the 1957 version put out by Top Flite or better known as the "green box" version based on the green label..so it is Classic legal, sort of. No appearance points, but if set up right, it flys great.

If Estes were to bring out an arf Ringmaster, do you think it would be the S-1? It would be OTS legal. They really missed the boat when they brought out the Stunting Ringmaster. It wasn't OTS legal! I notice that it is no longer in production.

>If Estes were to bring out an arf Ringmaster, do you think
>it would be the S-1? It would be OTS legal. They really
>missed the boat when they brought out the Stunting
>Ringmaster. It wasn't OTS legal! I notice that it is no
>longer in production.

Imagine my shock...
They (Estes) might get somebody in the Pacific Rim to crank out a decent jig built S-1 tho! I mean people will do ANYTHING for money- even build 50+ year old designs that were really sad when they were new (and there are a whole BUNCH of those out there!, not just the Ring')...

Jake

The Estes Stuntin Ring was just horrible kit. Plastic wing tips, etc....really bad quality. So the fact that it is out of production is no real surprise. I'm building the RSM S1 and the kit is top notch, goes together as quick, arf like you might say.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-10-03 AT 09:36 PM (CDT)
 
>The Estes Stuntin Ring was just horrible kit. Plastic wing
>tips, etc....really bad quality. So the fact that it is out
>of production is no real surprise. I'm building the RSM S1
>and the kit is top notch, goes together as quick, arf like
>you might say.

Oh I don't know about the kit being all that horrible. Mine had fairly decent wood although it could have been lighter. As to the plastic wing tips, it sounds like there was a lack of experience in working with plastic here. I made mine a flush fit on the ribs and they look fine. This was one of the first planes thatI put together when I rethreaded back to C/L. It has Monokoted wings and painted everything else. With a K&B 28 Sportster/Davis head and a 11/4 prop it literally had over a hundred flights on it in fairly quick order.
If it was too heavy well I really didn't notice it as it did all the old time pattern fairly well.
Incidentally I still have it hanging on the wall, never wrecked it so as far as I'm concerned it was a winner

What I find lamentable with Estes is that they bought 2 old line companies and promptly abandoned their core market to concentrate on toys.
Sterling kits while not the best quality were some truly interesting designs. To let them fade into oblivion and to dissolve the company was tragic. Why did they even bother with it. Given the nostalgic nature of the C/L community the market would have been stable or as is being shown now that it could be larger then before.
Cox is another story. without even a whimper they abandoned their dominant role in the sport to the Russians and have degraded their line to basically toy status. No fight, no improvement to the line just complete abdication.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-10-03 AT 09:48 PM (CDT)
 
>What I find lamentable with Estes is that they bought 2 old
>line companies and promptly abandoned their core market to
>concentrate on toys.
>Sterling kits while not the best quality were some truly
>interesting designs. To let them fade into oblivion and to
>dissolve the company was tragic. Why did they even bother
>with it. Given the nostalgic nature of the C/L community the
>market would have been stable or as is being shown now that
>it could be larger then before.
>Cox is another story. without even a whimper they abandoned
>their dominant role in the sport to the Russians and have
>degraded their line to basically toy status. No fight, no
>improvement to the line just complete abdication.

I couldn't agree with that statement more, right on. Not sure what the intent was on Estes part, makes no sense! They really should have stuck with the rocket deal leaving the airplane hobby to the people that know what to do with it.

Circle: I also disagree with your characterization of the Estes R. kit. The ones I have seen had decent wood, fits, etc.

I disliked the plastic tips too, but that is a relatively minor issue. Just make some balsa ones.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-10-03 AT 11:13 PM (CDT)
 
Dominant?? Competition??? Cox???? Since when? A long time ago, maybe, but not for over 20 years. Sure, a lot of people were still using Tee Dees in Free Flight 1/2A/A Power and 1/2-A Combat, but long before Estes bought Cox, there were already engines out there that could beat the pants off them, just that they weren't cheap (yet). The Tee Dee is an anachronism. Resting your laurels on a design that dates back two or three decades is definitely NOT keeping up with the competition, and Cox stopped development of contest engines LONG before Estes bought them out. Don't really blame them, either. The ones that make money selling competition engines are the Henry Nelsons of this world - small volume, high price, specialty manufacturers. Unless the competition scene is large (RC Pattern) or the engines are also being bought by sport fliers (also RC Pattern).

>What I find lamentable with Estes is that they bought 2 old
>line companies and promptly abandoned their core market to
>concentrate on toys.

On purpose - their glorious leader, (the afforementioned Barry) has, or at least had, "toy company" as the business plan. I don't think it has worked out all that well.

I could be wrong (and Mikey probably knows), but Tunick's previous claim to fame was some "must-have" toy from a Christmas past- something like a Cabbage Patch doll.

BTW, it's really Centuri (not Estes, Cox, Sterling, etc.) - another proud and glorious model rocket company from the heyday. Lee Piester sold Centuri off to Damon somewhat before Vern Estes did the same. They were operating as two separate companies for a long time, which led to some oddities - for instance, the Estes Astrocam rocket camera actually fit into a Centuri tube (ST-13), not the nearest Estes equivalent (BT-55).

>Cox is another story. without even a whimper they abandoned
>their dominant role in the sport to the Russians and have
>degraded their line to basically toy status. No fight, no
>improvement to the line just complete abdication.

When was Cox a leading competition engine company? That was probably over in the late 60's or 70's. Long before Tunick came along, I'm sure.

The trouble with using words in a non visual conversation really means that we need to have the skills of an ambassador, in verbal communications
By using the word dominant I meant the largest selling line of 1/2A motors sold,not their contest performance which I concur was long gone from the scene.
You competition people are simply going to have to start thinking outside that window. OK?
Norvel is now the motor of choice for anyone doing any flying in RC and C/L and if they ever make a self contained small tank system similer to the Black Widow with decent vents, no reed valve to worry about Cox might as well disappear from the scene forever.
One other thing what makes a Cox 049 plug worth $10.00 Dammed if I know. Dennis

The StartUp combos pretty much qualify. They run every bit as good as the Black Widow (and a lot stronger).

THE thing that allows Cox to keep selling engines is the RTF plastic airplanes. I'll bet they sell several times as many engines as part of the plastic planes as they do discrete ones.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-11-03 AT 08:38 AM (CDT)
 
I just looked at my Estes Ring kit just to make sure I remembered the wood quality. Yep, still looks bad. I guess I'm getting picky after building RSM and Umland's kits and it wouldn't be right to compare Estes to those kits.
The plastic wing tips is just a cheap way to go in my opinion.

I was looking at the Cox glow heads the other day and was surprised at the price. What's the deal with them be so expensive?

>The StartUp combos pretty much qualify. They run every bit
>as good as the Black Widow (and a lot stronger).
>
>THE thing that allows Cox to keep selling engines is the RTF
>plastic airplanes. I'll bet they sell several times as many
>engines as part of the plastic planes as they do discrete
>ones.

That has pretty much always been true- far more RTFs were sold thru the years than separate engines- so many in fact that Carl Goldberg went to the expense of designing (and having the moulds made) to produce an aftermarket bracket mount for the Cox 290 series so it could be used on his kits (and others) once the plastic RTF died (quickly).
The TDs were designed by Bill Atwood, and their era extended a long time- probably into the '70s until motors like the Shuriken started coming along. I think nobody else wanted to mess with the 1/2A market (competition), and that is what kept them viable for so long.
Today it is different- and the Russian rockets just blow them into the weeds. The Russians make some cranked-up stuff and can sell it over here at a resonable price.
This is off the subject of models, but here is another neat example, and since Christmas is coming up, for those of our members into firearms, check out a Bumble Bee (nifty toy!):

http://www.bbgunsforsale.com/airpistols2.html

Jake

Is the Bumble Bee the Drozd CO2, Electrically Fed, Select Fire Automatic Machine Pistol?

Yea, The kids will have fun with that. Nothing says "Christmas" like a Automatic Machine Pistol.

I think I'll be buying skateboards, clothes, and CD's again this year. I just can't get my kids interested in shooting things. I must be doing something wrong.

Don't worry, the world needs Commies too.

I just can't lay out 200 bucks for one, looks like fun though. I can see balloons popping rapid fire with thta sucker. Yes, I pop the things with or without an airplane, afterall, I am the Balloon Bust KING!!!!

LAST EDITED ON Oct-11-03 AT 04:17 PM (CDT)
 
>Don't worry, the world needs Commies too.

What does this mean? Please explain this comment.

You know, for donkey's years, there have always been these compressed air powered BB machine gun booths at county fairs. I've always wondered where one could buy one of these. Back in the 80s someone was selling Freon-powered ones, but those are gone (along with the ozone layer.. )..

No, I don't see these as toys for kids, but there are other uses for them. Getting rid of your mis-burned CD-Rs is one. The RC Warship Combat people could likewise use them. They build their own, as it is.

It's called humor, goes with the sarcasm in your previous post.

My oldest son is in the United States Army (3rd). He just got back from Kuwait. If you watched TV you may have seen him in Baghdad.
I'll ask him if he's a communist. I don't think he is though, as he just re-enlisted.

My youngest son isn't old enough to join, Although he talks about joining the Air Force. His grades are good enough and he also likes to build flying models. He's not a commie, I asked him.

As for the balloons, you might want to type "Balloon Fetish" in your search engine. Believe it or not there are more like you.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-03 AT 11:37 AM (CDT)
 
Well tell your oldest thanks for his service. Tell your youngest that it is an honorable and needed service. And tell yourself to lighten up.

Jake pointed out a cute, albeit useless toy also made in Russia, little off topic but so what. Most of us are generally friends here and we do things other than just talk serious stunt issues, you have too, I've seen it.

As for my 'Balloon Fetish', your just going to have to tough it out man, it's a Rule Book Event #333, one I happen to enjoy. So if we do go all restrictive on this here board and only talk about things control line, I'm in safe with popping balloons.

Now, I could have come in all nice and cozy and tried to smooth things over saying, 'Oh John, I'm sorry I didn't mean it to be taken so seriously. I apologize for having upset you with my harsh and callous statements. Please forgive me."

But I'd much rather just tell ya ta stick it and come back later when you've seen your making a big deal out of nothing that you started in the first place. But then thats Leonard's job.

In all seriousness though, if I'd known that you would have gotten all nasty about it, I probably would have changed my statement from the original 'the world needs commies' thing to 'Don't know, looks like fun to me. My 15 year old would probably like to play with it. And my brother. And my father.'

But no, you've been too nasty for that. Anyone who has a seperate view of yours is to be belittled or called some kind of balloon pervert, so STICK IT.

If'n you wanna talk model airplanes or other things, don't think that I hold a grudge about anything and post it. Most of these 'disturbances' are just the misunderstandings of the web and would never happen face to face.

Come-on, you didn't think the "Balloon Fetish" was funny? It was at least as funny as the Commie thing.

I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way. I'll try to be more careful with comments that I make about other people, their kids, etc.

I think I understand the "Stick It" part, (balloon reference right?)

Once again, I'm sorry and I apologize.

LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-03 AT 01:40 PM (CDT)
 
Works for me. Ever get in town I'll split some Sweet tater pie with ya.

Hey, speaking of balloons, the wind is way low today so come to think of it, I think I'll take the sticks and balloons to the field. With any luck I'll get some of the park kids out on the handle and we'll go after them suckers.

And back on topic, still waiting for my Hyper Vyper too.
And waiting
And waiting

I ain't mad, I'm hungry.
From somewhere near Parkville, Mo.
William Crane
AMA 6733

>Well tell your oldest thanks for his service. Tell your
>youngest that it is an honorable and needed service. And
>tell yourself to lighten up.
>
>Jake pointed out a cute, albeit useless toy also made in
>Russia, little off topic but so what. Most of us are
>generally friends here and we do things other than just talk
>serious stunt issues, you have too, I've seen it.
>
>As for my 'Balloon Fetish', your just going to have to tough
>it out man, it's a Rule Book Event #333, one I happen to
>enjoy. So if we do go all restrictive on this here board
>and only talk about things control line, I'm in safe with
>popping balloons.
>
>Now, I could have come in all nice and cozy and tried to
>smooth things over saying, 'Oh John, I'm sorry I didn't mean
>it to be taken so seriously. I apologize for having upset
>you with my harsh and callous statements. Please forgive
>me."
>
>But I'd much rather just tell ya ta stick it and come back
>later when you've seen your making a big deal out of nothing
>that you started in the first place. But then thats
>Leonard's job.
>
>In all seriousness though, if I'd known that you would have
>gotten all nasty about it, I probably would have changed my
>statement from the original 'the world needs commies' thing
>to 'Don't know, looks like fun to me. My 15 year old would
>probably like to play with it. And my brother. And my
>father.'
>
>But no, you've been too nasty for that. Anyone who has a
>seperate view of yours is to be belittled or called some
>kind of balloon pervert, so STICK IT.
>
>If'n you wanna talk model airplanes or other things, don't
>think that I hold a grudge about anything and post it. Most
>of these 'disturbances' are just the misunderstandings of
>the web and would never happen face to face.
>
>From somewhere near Parkville, Mo.
>William Crane
>AMA 6733

It's hardly useless, nor is it a toy either. It's actual intended purpose is as a training device for the Bizon SMG used by Russian (and other) special ops personnel and police. It is used to teach fire discipline and proper target engagement techniques (i.e. don't blast off the whole mag downrange in the general direction of the target and hope for a hit) without having to resort to the expense and elaboration of a range suitable for live ammo.
It might interest you all to know that during WW-2, the US Army Air Corps and US Navy used compressed air powered BB machine guns to train bomber and other aircraft gunners for the same reasons.
It (Drozd) gets the cute yellow "Bumble Bee" scheme so as to be "non-threating" for US import.
My point was two fold: the Russians have buried Cox .049s, and there are devices like the Hyper-Viper which may (like the Drozd) prove useful as stepping stones into the higher levels of PA (or shooting).

Jake

LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-03 AT 07:31 PM (CDT)
 
I'd still like to whail away with some ballons with it, but not for 200 bucks.

We DID do some damage at the park today, fully 8 kids went up on the club trainer, one of them was a repeat from several weeks ago. My neighbor also showed up and after a flight on the trainer, I put him up on my old McCoy powered shoestring which he liked flying much more so. He's supposed to bring my truck back and wants me to lay out the necesittes for an airplane to build. So there's another sucker to the fire. Couple more flights on the Shoestring and I'll get in the circle with him and my other Shoestring, all of a sudden we'll have ourselves some racing.

Anyways back to the kids, we put a balloon each up there for us to go at and we got a little over half of them, got a couple sticks too. The kids loved it.

>I'd still like to whail away with some ballons with it, but
>not for 200 bucks.
>
>We DID do some damage at the park today, fully 8 kids went
>up on the club trainer, one of them was a repeat from
>several weeks ago. My neighbor also showed up and after a
>flight on the trainer, I put him up on my old McCoy powered
>shoestring which he liked flying much more so. He's
>supposed to bring my truck back and wants me to lay out the
>necesittes for an airplane to build. So there's another
>sucker to the fire. Couple more flights on the Shoestring
>and I'll get in the circle with him and my other Shoestring,
>all of a sudden we'll have ourselves some racing.
>
>Anyways back to the kids, we put a balloon each up there
>for us to go at and we got a little over half of them, got a
>couple sticks too. The kids loved it.
>
>From somewhere near Parkville, Mo.
>William Crane
>AMA 6733

COOL!
Can't go wrong there.
Weather kinda lousy here- all I managed to get done was fit together a couple old Guillow's Trainer kits (II and III). I got the fuselages and motor mounts drilled and ready to glue together (ok,ok, so I'm not Al Rabe, or Buck, or Fancher, or etc!) but they do look pretty good so far. I made them for a Fox .19 (II) and a .35 (III). Interestingly enough, the only parts on the II and III that are the same are the motor mounts, rear fuselages, and the landing gear. Everything else is slightly different. Fun stuff, jus tlike the "old daze"...

Jake