Brodak ARF's ?

I heard a rumor last weekend at the Dayton contest that John Brodak is working on a line of ARF's. Can anyone confirm this?

No I can't confirm it, but he would have to have his head examined if he didn't come out with an arf.

>No I can't confirm it, but he would have to have his head
>examined if he didn't come out with an arf.

I predict he will do well with these if he does. It's a logical idea, and I think John is a logical man. We'll see where it goes.

JAK

>>No I can't confirm it, but he would have to have his head
>>examined if he didn't come out with an arf.
>
>
>I predict he will do well with these if he does. It's a
>logical idea, and I think John is a logical man. We'll see
>where it goes.
>
>JAK
>
>

If the ARF is what the "people" want, then this is what is going to sell. Unfortunately, the flip side is that if the sport flyers start to buy mostly arfs, they will not learn to build AND if the kits don't sell, they will no longer be produced.

I would hope that John would put good hardware into the ARFs, even if it means they will cost more. Produce something worthwhile instead of something that is going to fail, either in strength or in construction. How much more would it have cost TopFlite to have put in a good control system? How much more to add adjustable leadouts and tip weight? I know, each adds to the cost and many of the original people who buy these things won't know the difference or will crash them so soon it wouldn't have made a difference, but I would hope they would look at longivity. Else, the ARF "boom" will soon become a bust as people return to kits which will result in a more suitable and durable flying experience.

Len,

I have had an email conversation with John and you can bet your bippy he will do it right. Given John's background I am a bit surprised you would even think otherwise.

Who cares if the next generation of CL flyers can't build, most of us will be gone anyway. The ones that want to build will but the future of this hobby is going to be ARF's and RTF's with OS LA's and Brodak 40's. I am still amazed that most here on SSW can't see it coming.

>Who cares if the next generation of CL flyers can't build,
>most of us will be gone anyway. The ones that want to build
>will but the future of this hobby is going to be ARF's and
>RTF's with OS LA's and Brodak 40's. I am still amazed that
>most here on SSW can't see it coming.

Well I care for one. I plan on being around for a while yet too. I agree with Len- ARFs and all have their place, but the problem is that our hobby is rather different than most. One major problem that can arise is suppose the supply of ARFs suddenly dries up for one or another reason- could easily happen. If you don't know how to build, you are sunk unless you can find someone else who knows how that you can pay to do it for you. A great deal of the enjoyment I have had in this hobby is learning to build my own and trying to make each effort a little better (or a LOT!) than the last.
There is an old saying: "That which we gain too easily we esteem to lightly".

John

I agree with some of what you said. I also enjoy building (if not finishing) and will do it as long as I am able. The ARF thing has been hashed around in previous threads and see no reason to start that mess again.

I do have what seems more faith in good old American ingenuity than you. I believe if what you are predicting ever comes to pass and the ARF's were to suddenly disappear, modelers will figure out how to build and get something in the air.

It's simple, ARF's are here to stay in both R/C and C/L. I really like to build, it's as much fun as flying. I purchased the ARF Streak and it's a ball to fly and when you compare the ARF to the price of a kit the decision becomes simple. The other thing I like is no emotional investment, if it crashes...oh well. It's amazing how low you can get at the bottom of the stunts when you didn't build the plane your flying. I use the ARF streak to help me learn the new stunts, and for that reason there is no better plane available.

However, in my opinion, it's essential that you learn how to build if you want to stay in the hobby long term. The ARF's are a good short term purchase, but you need to build.....

See Jake, I knew we would agree on something....

>It's simple, ARF's are here to stay in both R/C and C/L. I
>really like to build, it's as much fun as flying. I
>purchased the ARF Streak and it's a ball to fly and when
>you compare the ARF to the price of a kit the decision
>becomes simple. The other thing I like is no emotional
>investment, if it crashes...oh well. It's amazing how low
>you can get at the bottom of the stunts when you didn't
>build the plane your flying. I use the ARF streak to help me
>learn the new stunts, and for that reason there is no better
>plane available.
>
>However, in my opinion, it's essential that you learn how to
>build if you want to stay in the hobby long term. The ARF's
>are a good short term purchase, but you need to build.....
>
>See Jake, I knew we would agree on something....

Dear Bob and Circleburner, I think that is what I was trying to say in my own poor way. I wholeheartedly support the ARF idea as long as it gets more people into the hobby. My gripe was (and is) personal with Grate Pains and their rather tackey behaviour in the past.
As far as models, I get attached to all mine- somebody somewhere had to put effort and their sweat and labor into it and I appreciate that fact. I didn't build most of my rifles either but I sure don't go out and toss them in the mud and say "Who cares, I didn't build it and I can just buy another one anyway".

>Len,
>
>I have had an email conversation with John and you can bet
>your bippy he will do it right. Given John's background I am
>a bit surprised you would even think otherwise.
>
>Who cares if the next generation of CL flyers can't build,
>most of us will be gone anyway. The ones that want to build
>will but the future of this hobby is going to be ARF's and
>RTF's with OS LA's and Brodak 40's. I am still amazed that
>most here on SSW can't see it coming.

Bob, soooo...you're saying that the rest of the world is out of step because they do not see things the way you do???

Ya Billy you got it.. I know everything, just ask anyone that really knows me.

I have it straight from the horse, yes John is going to do ARF's

Hi Bob,

Any idea what John has in mind. The TF Nobler my son and I have flies so well I would love to see a larger model in ARF form.

The first 3, the Profile Cardinal, the built-up Oriental and the Baby Clown.

The Goldberg Shoestring Stunter would be a good one to compete with or even complement the Flite Streak. After looking through his catalog, it would be nice to see an ARF of the Thunderbird, Olympic, Ares, Legacy or even, oh say, a Vector, yea that's the ticket!! Can't wait.

How about a profile Cardinal?

Hey Leonard, are you listening? Ole Richard may be more right than you and others think. Since all the hoopla I decided to check with my guys that make my R/C ARFs and I can do a piped 60 ship, on weight and all the whistles and bells, for a selling price of 200.00. Control line is a lot simpler than the R/C whistles and bells to mfg. That would be covered or uncovered. I am still against doing it but....The train is coming round the bend!!! Pics are of one of my ARFs that I had made last year from plans of an Ace Super Pacer. It is built more like a C/L plane than most ARFs. It has maple motor mounts and cowled in to a spinner. I send plans and 6 months later I have a kit. I sell this kit for 90.00.
Richard Oliver

>Hey Leonard, are you listening? Ole Richard may be more
>right than you and others think. Since all the hoopla I
>decided to check with my guys that make my R/C ARFs and I
>can do a piped 60 ship, on weight and all the whistles and
>bells, for a selling price of 200.00.

Of course you can.

It was simply a matter of time.

Richard: I say DO IT!!!!

Rick Campbell

Len,

There are a lot of things about CL that you understand. Producing an ARF CL model at a profit is not one of them.

Maverick,

I wish you would not resist, especially as I am in the market for more expensive stuff from you (where is my $100.00 pitch gauge, for example?) and you are one of only a very few who could actually have a decent PA model produced to specifications which would interest me.

I'm serious. Great Planes did a terrific job with the Flite Streak, but you and I each know, in addition to ourselves, probably 20 to 25 people who could pull off that act, given the resources and backing of Hobbico. The Nobler raised the bar a bit, from what I have seen of them, but still hardly a real difficult project.

But now we're talkin' a real-deal PA model. If the first one out of the gate is junk, there won't be many to follow. I mean, how many people do you and I know who can even supply the specifications and to the proper level of detail? In my case, three. Including myself.

I hope you do it. I want a practice model. My ARF should be be nekkid, no covering at all. But ready for it. All wood, of course. Versatile when it comes the powerplant installation. 'Cos I don't know which direction I'm going to jump next. I want it straight. I want it rigid.

I want an Impact in ARF form, hold the MonoKote. Maybe even two of them...

Only problem with arf's, in my opinion, is that if they catch on, the kits disappear. When I started flying rc, there were few arf's and a LOT of kits, every company made a .40 size P-51, for example. Now if you want to build your own .40 size P-51, you pretty much have to build the Great Planes P-51, which, by the way, can be had as an arf also. No Dynaflite P-51,no Royal, no Midwest...those are just the ones that I can think of. Now I go to the flying field, and the majority of the planes are ARF's, I don't mind, just an observation. Now I do what so many of you have done for years, I've scrounged (thank you ebay) as many plans for the old, no longer produced kits as I can find, and I build from scratch. (thank you Lonestar) Most of the kits that are still produced, are weigh overbuilt...note the pun. Lots of plywood, a .40 size kit weighs over 5.5 pounds, my .40 size scratch build come in at 3.5 to 4.

Once people stop building, it's hard to sustain a line of kits. The smaller kit makers either disappear, or get bought up by the larger ones, like Great Planes. But, I suppose that's the market at play.

Sorry Austin, I can't agree that kits will disappear.

If that line of reasoning held true, there would be no scratch builders now. If what is being said here is true, John Brodak is going to offer ARF versions of existing kits. Who knows, if he is watching here, he might even take note and offer covered and uncovered.

The Flite Streak and Nobler have proven the market for ARF models, but there will always be people who have more time than money and people who simply enjoy the building phase and get great satisfaction from turning a few dollars worth of balsa into a flying model.

I remember hearing a guy at the local radio glider club bragging several years ago that his new model was $5 worth of balsa, a few sheets of plastic covering that took 5 nights to cut out and assemble and nobody else could have one like it--unless they built it themselves.

Geoff,

I hope you are right, but 20 years ago the rc guys around here all built there own planes too. We all made fun of the few arf's there were, said they were junk. The guys that enjoy building now will most likely continue to do so, but the guy that starts with an arf, will probably stick with an arf. I've done it all personally. I've owned a few arf's (rc, but I'm shooting for the FliteStreak arf for Christmas), I've built from kits, but find most of the quality poor, and now I mostly design my own, or modify from kit plans.

Some of the rc arf manufacturers have made the ocassional uncovered prebuilt models (ARC almost ready to cover), but I don't guess it's caught on, there aren't very many. But I'd prefer this method, you can check the quality of the build before you buy, re-glue questionable joints, and even make some modifications if you desire.

Hey, I got a 6 month old kid, I don't have a lot of time to build, so I say bring 'em on. I'm definitely just a sport flyer, my favorite plane is my old Ringmaster complete with McCoy .40 redhead(cover your eyes Jake,)that I built when I was about 14. It's as heavy as a boat anchor, but it will do loops, lazy eights, outside loops, and inverted, that's plenty for my enjoyment. I have a Sig Mustang, that I didn't build, that's way too heavy also. I've flown it a few times, but didn't enjoy it a lot. Now I have a lighter Fox engine on it, which allowed me to remove some balast from the tail, hopefully I'll get a chance to try it again soon to see if I like it better. If not, I'll stick with the ringmaster, until I can build something better.

I want it straight. I want it rigid.
>
>I want an Impact in ARF form, hold the MonoKote. Maybe even
>two of them...
>
>Dan Rutherford

Who doesn't?
Oh wait, we're talking models here! Sorry!
Sounds like what I said: frame up the base (and do it well) and let the user decide the rest.
Could it be DD and I agree on something? Oh I forgot, he considers me a "whack job". Oh well...

JAK

Wake me up when the Randy Smith planes re aroundd,

I would buy a Deradnought 40.

A Legacy is also OK.

BUT I INTEND TO KEEP BKILDING MY STUFF.

Why?

Only Ion Brazil can build in a way he that p;eases him 100%!

I rest my case.

God bless you!

In Christ,