Nobler Design Lineage

The timeless Nobler design has been modelled traditionally in Navy colors. When George Aldrich designed this machine, with all its perfect moments, the C/L Nats were sponsored by the U.S. Navy. Was the original color scheme a gesture by George, as the Nobler possessed a long, un-radial type nose? Some of you fellows are in the know, I would like 'The Rest of The Story', thanks.

Of course it was a gesture to the Navy judges. George told me that painting a stunt airplane in navy colors was a common practice.

I had heard that George was inspired by the Caudron C-460 and that is where the appearance of the Nobler began.

>Of course it was a gesture to the Navy judges. George told
>me that painting a stunt airplane in navy colors was a
>common practice.
>
Before it was blue with white trim. it had been green and gold, and still another color scheme before that. Some minor crash damage (or major hangar rash, whichever) was why it changed colors each time. At one point or another, after it was in a Navy scheme, the entire nose was replaced as well.

I don't know if the white nose was before or after that particular repair. I've seen photos of the Navy trim job in which the nose was self-colored.

.
Kiwi

As others have stated, lots of guys used Navy colors. The Nobler of course followed this trend and the Caudron was blue, too. At one time the Nobler had an open cockpit, was yellow and green with bronze trim. I don't even know if bronze paint is available anymore. I think Pactra (Aero Gloss) made that color. Sig didn't have paint then, just balsa, based on old 1952/3 ads in FM and MAN.
The June and July issues of MAN have the photos of these versions.
This one model has inspired more modelers than the Spirit of St Louis did aviation. My opinion only.

>As others have stated, lots of guys used Navy colors. The
>Nobler of course followed this trend and the Caudron was
>blue, too. At one time the Nobler had an open cockpit, was
>yellow and green with bronze trim. I don't even know if
>bronze paint is available anymore. I think Pactra (Aero
>Gloss) made that color. Sig didn't have paint then, just
>balsa, based on old 1952/3 ads in FM and MAN.
>The June and July issues of MAN have the photos of these
>versions.
>This one model has inspired more modelers than the Spirit of
>St Louis did aviation. My opinion only.

I recall George writing me that it was originally the yellow and green with bronze trim, then it was Curtiss Blue (AG), but he said he never actually flew it while it was in one of these two schemes (I forget which one it was now, but I think the first). Then it got the overall dark blue paint. The model he won the '57 NATs and the Walker cup with was black with I think the red Flite Streak style wing blazes with a white outine. George said this was "the black ship" that you will find in some of the old model mags (like American Modeler) that have photos of the NATs that year.
Nobody ever made bronze dope- it was done the same way it is today, by adding artist's metallic powder to clear. AG once made gold and that is close though not as dark.
If you want to know about the Nobler #1, talk to Charlie Bruce- he restored it out of a bag of smashed balsa bits and it is now in the AMA Museum. Other than George himself, CB probably knows more about this particular airplane than anybody else on the planet- and he is a great guy too just as GMA was.

John, thanks on the source of bronze. That I can make. The only source of bronze I know of for modeling is in model railroad and ship colors and those are not fuel proof!!
I have two paint shemes I want to try and needed bronze for trim. Heck, if you can't fly, at least paint'em nice

>John, thanks on the source of bronze. That I can make. The
>only source of bronze I know of for modeling is in model
>railroad and ship colors and those are not fuel proof!!
>I have two paint shemes I want to try and needed bronze for
>trim. Heck, if you can't fly, at least paint'em nice

Floquil is sure NOT "hot fuel" proof. It's a nitrate base lacquer and unless you do FF Rubber or diesels- it will go KAFLOOEY when glow juice hits it.
Bronze powder is available (in many tints) at most any good art supply store.
Good luck!

>Nobody ever made bronze dope- it was done the same way it is
>today, by adding artist's metallic powder to clear.

Horror! What did Bob do?

>At one time the Nobler had an open cockpit, was yellow and green with bronze trim.

Recently ran across a plane in a LHS in Houston that is the design before the Nobler, needs to be recovered but otherwise is in good shape. The above is a pretty good description. According to the people at the hobby shop it was "stored" in an attic until a couple years ago when it was given to them.

Open cockpit, very assimetrical wing, unequal flaps, but you can see the Nobler lineage in it.

>
>>At one time the Nobler had an open cockpit, was yellow and green with bronze trim.
>
>Recently ran across a plane in a LHS in Houston that is the
>design before the Nobler, needs to be recovered but
>otherwise is in good shape. The above is a pretty good
>description. According to the people at the hobby shop it
>was "stored" in an attic until a couple years ago when it
>was given to them.
>
>Open cockpit, very assimetrical wing, unequal flaps, but you
>can see the Nobler lineage in it.

Are you talking about the one at M&M? It's interesting, I'll grant that. Looks like a Nobler fuse (tail is slightly different) mated to a straight chord (like a Chief) wing. It's rather crude and I doubt was any world beater which is probably why it sat in that attic. If it was mine, I'd have given it away too...

Yes

According to the people at the shop it was built by George and the owner prior to the Nobler.

>Yes
>
>According to the people at the shop it was built by George
>and the owner prior to the Nobler.

Having seen it, I'd allow that anything is possible but I'd take this one with a good shot of hooch and a stiff dose of salt (like about a freight car full). The odds of this actually being true are about the same as of my being elected the next Pope...

>
>>At one time the Nobler had an open cockpit, was yellow and green with bronze trim.
>
>Recently ran across a plane in a LHS in Houston that is the
>design before the Nobler, needs to be recovered but
>otherwise is in good shape. The above is a pretty good
>description. According to the people at the hobby shop it
>was "stored" in an attic until a couple years ago when it
>was given to them.
>
>Open cockpit, very assimetrical wing, unequal flaps, but you
>can see the Nobler lineage in it.

If that is the model shown in "Stunting Can Be Smooth" I would think it deserves to be in the AMA museum.

>>
>>>At one time the Nobler had an open cockpit, was yellow and green with bronze trim.
>>
>>Recently ran across a plane in a LHS in Houston that is the
>>design before the Nobler, needs to be recovered but
>>otherwise is in good shape. The above is a pretty good
>>description. According to the people at the hobby shop it
>>was "stored" in an attic until a couple years ago when it
>>was given to them.
>>
>>Open cockpit, very assimetrical wing, unequal flaps, but you
>>can see the Nobler lineage in it.
>
> If that is the model shown in "Stunting Can Be Smooth" I
>would think it deserves to be in the AMA museum.
>
> Brett

If it is, it needs to get sent there real soon to get it out of Houston...

Why real soon. Is something going to happen to Houston??

No, but it uglies the place up.

Can't argue with that, except for where the hobby shop is located.

Before it goes to AMA it needs to be sent to the Paul Garber restoration center to be brought back to museuum display quality.

Wasn't there an article in Stunt News several years back about the Nobler that included pictures of the open cockpit "Nobler". I remember seeing pictures of it somewhere.

>Wasn't there an article in Stunt News several years back
>about the Nobler that included pictures of the open cockpit
>"Nobler". I remember seeing pictures of it somewhere.

Yes - "Stunting Can Be Smooth". It was reprinted in Stunt News a couple of years ago. Mandatory reading.

If memory serves me didn't George state in that article that the Nobler was based on the Chief. This may explain the open cockpit Nobler..

>If memory serves me didn't George state in that article that
>the Nobler was based on the Chief. This may explain the open
>cockpit Nobler..

Yes- as far as the moments go. GMA used the Chief until he designed the N. However, I again doubt that this accounts for the horrid looking thing hanging in the hobby shop. It looks a lot like some of the homebrew "specials" I have seen put up on eBay.

>If memory serves me didn't George state in that article that
>the Nobler was based on the Chief. This may explain the open
>cockpit Nobler..

Bob,

At the last VSC that George attended in Tucson he told me that he built and flew nearly a dozen Chiefs and developed the Nobler from that design. He also stated that he had built only 4 or 5 Noblers.

>Can't argue with that, except for where the hobby shop is
>located.
>
>Before it goes to AMA it needs to be sent to the Paul Garber
>restoration center to be brought back to museuum display
>quality.
>

Bellaire is pretty much a closet community for Houston now, being completely surrounded by it. Before anybody does that, I'd rather see someone substantiate that it really is what it is purported to be. I personally doubt it VERY seriously.

Thanks, guys. As usual, my horizons have been considerably broadened.
Hadn't realised the Caudron influence before, but I can see it now. A friend bought a Nobler that was started, and I was impressed with the fuse structure, along with everything else. There is a lot to that airplane!