Balsarite Help

How long do you wait between painting on Balsarite and covering with monokote? I guess I'm looking for the minimum time it takes Balsarite to dry.

Thanks,
Giffy

I've done it that way, let it dry well enough that you can sand the fuzzies that come up. Should be dry enough to use after that.

What's a good way to judge the temp of the iron? I've got as much oil out of the wood as I'm goning to get but, there's always a tiny bit left. I want to monokote it as soon as the balsarite dries, with as little heat as I can so, the oil doesn't have time to wick out or swell out from the heat. Wish me luck.

Thanks,
Giffy

I use about 2/3 to 3/4 setting on my old monocote-brand iron. what that temperature is, I have no idea. It's hotter than I use on any other covering except final wrinkle proofing on ozcover. Generally, I use a little less heat with initial application of covering, then increase the heat for final shrink and wrinkle proofing.

I Really need some Balsarite help...My question is; Where can I get
the stuff...? I can't find it anywhere,anymore. I'm looking for
the original fabric Formula. Thanks Guys; Tony in So Cal.

Go to http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=balsarite&FVPROFIL=++&search3=Go for Balsarite.

>Go to
>http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=balsarite&FVPROFIL=++&search3=Go
>for Balsarite.

If you click on one of the four Balsarites on that page, you will be taken to another page that lets you know that California does NOT allow such things to be shipped into the state. Notice also that California is the only state that will not allow it to be shipped in.

Roman, Tony,

How about the SIG version "Sticksit"? Can that product ship into SoCal? Works the same.

>Roman, Tony,
>
>How about the SIG version "Sticksit"? Can that product ship
>into SoCal? Works the same.
>
>Chris

Chris,

Based on what DesignMan says I would assume so. The shipping charge of $6.95, though, is a big hunk of the cost considering that STIX-IT is either $4.75 for 8 oz or $7.90 for a pint. It would seem that a trip to T&A might be worth the trip depending on where in SoCal one lives.

Unfortunately, the powers what am, in all their wisdom have forbidden the shipment into or sale of Balsarite in California. Perhaps they are afraid it will cause us to have another actor as Governor or something.

Sig Stikit seems to have escaped their notice, and Tony Nacarrato carries it.

Also, with the ebb and flow of people from Tucson, lately, we could probably set up a smuggling ring of such items.

How essential is Balsarite? I've had a can for years and never opened it. Meanwhile I've covered several dozen models with monokote, ultrakote, etc and never had trouble getting any of it to stick. Those of you who've used balsarite, does it make a big improvement?

Yes, big improvement. I like it. Although I’ve covered plenty without it. It really improves adhesion. Great for LE seams. It seems to work like an additional heat-activated adhesive that will wick deeper into the balsa than the adhesive of your covering would. It will provide a much more reliable and longer lasting stick to you iron-on’s. Your Kotes will hold up better to the heating and cooling your model will see in the coarse of it's’ life being in and out of the sun’s heat. I bet if you could iron plain old newspaper onto Balsarite and it would stick. Good stuff.

I used Balsarite only once. I hated it. It seemed to adhere at a much lower temperature than the Monokote and stuck to the covering far better than the wood, so the actual bond seemed to me to be weaker.
For me it was a "solution" to a problem I don't have.
Pat MacKenzie

> I used Balsarite only once. I hated it. It seemed to
>adhere at a much lower temperature than the Monokote and
>stuck to the covering far better than the wood, so the
>actual bond seemed to me to be weaker.
> For me it was a "solution" to a problem I don't have.
> Pat MacKenzie

Pat, You assume too much... "We" need Balsarite for covering with
Fabric based materials, Micafilm, and other lite-span type coverings.
No matter how much you iron Micafilm, it just doesn't stick. ..

Thanks: Roman, Chris and Larry...I'll try STIX-IT instead.
Tony G.

>Pat, You assume too much... "We" need Balsarite for covering
>with
>Fabric based materials, Micafilm, and other lite-span type
>coverings.
>No matter how much you iron Micafilm, it just doesn't stick.
>..
I have found regular contact cement , thinned , to work much better than Balsarite. I use this to cover F2D models in clear mylar, and have for >10 years.
Another product I have used with litespan is Balsaloc:
http://www.balsapr.com/catalog/covering/balsalocView.asp?ProductId=glue014
I doubt the Balsaloc is fuel proof, but I have only used it on electrics.
I am pretty sure the Balsarite I tried was the thick original formula Larry refers to below, so perhaps my results would have been better if I had thinned it more.

Pat MacKenzie

> I have found regular contact cement , thinned , to work
>much better than Balsarite. I use this to cover F2D models
>in clear mylar, and have for >10 years.
>Another product I have used with litespan is Balsaloc:
>http://www.balsapr.com/catalog/covering/balsalocView.asp?ProductId=glue014
> I doubt the Balsaloc is fuel proof, but I have only used it
>on electrics.
> I am pretty sure the Balsarite I tried was the thick
>original formula Larry refers to below, so perhaps my
>results would have been better if I had thinned it more.
>
> Pat MacKenzie

Well Pat, thanks for the Balsaloc tip. I used to thin the Balsarite
with IronX, Coverite's specified thinner. Remarkably, Ironx is still
available in Calif.
Tony G

There are two formulations of Balsarite, a thick one for adhering fabric and film without it's own adhesive, and a thin one to prep the surface for $kote and similar self-stick materials.

The thick stuff would indeeed be worse than nothing under a self-stick film.

The thicker version of Balsarite is also the original formula, this sometimes being heralded right on the label.

This "thick" Balsarite is the only variety I use, although it is thinned 50/50 with acetone. Being stuck (no pun) in my ways I have never tried the "thin" stuff.

As to Jerry's query, one can obviously get along quite nicely without use of Balsarite. Especially as it is after all a glue and so is not exactly without a weight penalty.

But if one really expects MonoKote to stick and stay stuck for years, to have a low-maintenance finish, ya gotta poke holes in all areas to be covered, apply a (thinned as above) coat of Balsarite, lightly sand, and then to apply MonoKote.

With the film on and to your satisfaction, my final step--optional to many, no problem--is to heat a small area with a heat gun, while quite hot to mash the film firmly against wood with a smoothing glove. (The Top Flite mitt is pretty good; in fact, it's hard to find anything better.)

Repeat this process in all areas which are film over wood.

The high heat sucks the film up tight, the Balsarite liquifies one last time, any trapped air is released through all those holes you laboriously punched in the wood.

If using this technique you will see graining in the finish and must decide if this bothers you. Test on a good-sized scrap. Get out of that well-lit shop where the graining is painfully obvious. Toss the scrap on the ground. If you can't see the graining neither will the judges at most local contests.

On the other hand, if your last finishing step is the heat-and-press routine, you can rest assured the film/wood surface is now a laminate and that use of a belt sander is the only sure way to get the film off your model.

Back to added weight, while I have never done it, I can see where one might compromise, using Balsarite only on the top surfaces of the model, those with maximum exposure to the sun.

>As to Jerry's query, one can obviously get along quite
>nicely without use of Balsarite. Especially as it is after
>all a glue and so is not exactly without a weight penalty.
>
>But if one really expects MonoKote to stick and stay stuck
>for years, to have a low-maintenance finish, ya gotta poke
>holes in all areas to be covered, apply a (thinned as above)
>coat of Balsarite, lightly sand, and then to apply MonoKote.

With all due respect, I have had *absolutely no problem* using plain old Monokote with no additives, and my airplanes are as old as anyone's.

My experiences with Balsarite were uniformly negative, and Pat describes them well. It was really thick, lumpy, and was very soft for a long time. The worst thing is that it makes the surface "slimy" when hot. and thus the covering creeps if you even look at it funny. I simply can't imagine how it could be made to work.

I also tried the "poking holes" method (independent of Balsarite) on solid surfaces. All it seemed to do was leave a series of teeny-weeny shiny spots, where the covering was bridging the holes, and a slightly different texture were it touched the wood. In short, it looked like you had poked a bunch of holes in the surface.

I always had the best, and most long-lasting results, using the "stretch and edge tack" method described in McClellans SN article. Certainly takes care of the "trapped air" problem that the holes supposedly fix. I've never had the regular old adhesive creep or come loose, so as far as I can tell there's no problem to solve there.

The best Monokote jobs I have seen (my 15 pointer at the NATs airplane from 93, Bill Fitz's Gypsy, some R/C models) look like very good paint jobs, at least until you get around the edges, and they were all done this way.

Of course, do it however you want, but I am astonished that anyone can do a good job with Balsarite - I had long since relegated it to another bizzare R/C abberation.

Brett

I use Monokote on all my stunters. Wings, stabs, flaps, and elevators. I used Balsrite on 1 of them and all it did was create problems for me. It seem to "gas" for me and form many bubbles under the covering which I couldn't get out. Very frustrating. I'm with Brett on this one. I just sand the wood real fine, vacuum, then use a tack rag. Then I do use a "Woodpecker" on all the solid sheeting. Sand again, vacuum, then tack. I do the pull and strech mehtod to seal around the perimeter, then I shrink with a heat gun while I rub the covering down with a soft rag. Turns out pretty good. It was the front row finisher at the Intermediate Nats in 2002.

To each his own on the subject of Balsarite, but I have had real good and consistent success with it.

Brett, I know you didn't miss my mention of thinning Balsarite 50/50 with acetone; but you didn't say if you tried that option.

While I have one of those woodpecker things, I no longer use it. There is a tendency to make slotted holes and to pull balsa out of these holes, plopping it on the surface. Instead, I have gone back to the old way, a block of balsa with 12 or so needles CA'd into it and with a spacing of about 1/4". Poke, poke all over the model.

I suspect very strongly that our differences of opinion come down to differing techniques. Were I to watch Brett film cover a model his approach would probably make sense. And I can assure one and all that if Brett were to witness my techniques he would be a convert.

Dan, I did it your way. I used pins in a balsa block, thinned balsarite 50/50 with acetone and gave the frame a final wipe down with acetone.

The only place I messed up was, I put two coats of balsarite on. One coat didn't look like anything, what did I know. It did bubble up a little, too much glue I guess. I had to keep going over it with the iron and chase the problems out but, I finally got it on ok.

I don't know but, some of this might have been from the castor oil coming out of the wood from heat.

Anyway it turned out good. The plane did 114 mph all day long and, the monokote stuck like glue.

Thanks to all,
Giffy

Just a couple of general comments. After reading all the replies, it seemed to me that there is a little confusion about the two types of Balsa Rite.

One the "Old Original" was designed for fabric coverings--or any covering which does not have its own adhesive, like MicaFilm for example. This stuff is thick.

The second type is called a Balsa Conditioner and is designed for film coverings which have their own adhesive. As a matter of fact, it says "Not for Micafilm" right on the label. It is very thin. It main function is to harden the balsa suface. As far as I understand, it isn't really an adhesive. I have a friend who uses it to harden up the balsa surfaces of his indoor catapult gliders (current US Nats champ and Stunt Beginner Sandbagger!)

Anyway to answer Giffy's original question, the label's instructions says to apply covering when dry to the touch. It also says best results when low heat (220-250 degrees F) is used.