Good news and bad news!

Couldn't get the Ukey35/Fox35 to start - whilst trying to get it started I knocked of the needle - so fitted a spare - still wouldn't go so switched to:

The Ukey40/McCoy35 - the McCoy is a one flip starter! Irvin flew this first - an extra bit of tipweight was added - then it was my turn.

I DIDN'T CRASH AND I DIDN'T GET DIZZY BUT I DID DO A COUPLE OF UNINTENTIONAL WINGOVERS!

Irvin then moved the pushrod to the outer hole on the bellcrank and had another flight.

Whilst Irvin was flying I managed to get the Fox going too so thought I'd have a go with that but would you believe it I knocked of THAT needle too!

So it was back to the Ukey40 which for some reason I crashed - from the take off it went 'up and over' lost line tension etc.

I blame it on the 2 pints of Guiness Irvin had forced on me at lunch!

The damage is not too bad - broke the prop - knocked one wing off - the cockpit and fin were wiped off and the elevator split.

Still not too disheartened!

What do you suggest I replace the fragile Fox and McCoy needle valves with?

"Irvin then moved the pushrod to the outer hole on the bellcrank and had another flight." There's the answer as to why you crashed the U-Key 40. Irvin didn't do you any favors here. It is your model, you're a beginner, put it back the way it came. As for the NVA, I like the K&B Universal unit, but chances of finding some are slim. I would check with "Just Engines", Paul fits Czech made Modella NVA in his conversions, and would make sense if they are cheap and available. I've never seen one, and don't know of a source over this side of the pond. If I had problems with the Fox NVA, I'd cut off the needle shorter and solder a small brass or steel gear on the end for a handle. The combat guys used to do this, and some may still. Are you pulling the prop through to feel "the bump" before you whack the prop? Some engines like to be whacked backwards, some don't, but don't bother to flip the prop without feeling for "the bump". Steve

On the ST51 NVA front the online ordering page has just quoted me $7 shipping for a $8 NVA so I've just emailed RSM to check that's right!

I suspect that this may have not helped my problem....

We have lost the bolt out of the adjustable leadout. Now, in the building process, we put in a longer bolt and jimmy the threads on the end so it can't come out. It can still come lose, but it can't come out. But we have lost bolts that held down the engine (added lock washers), we lost the lid (and weight) out of the tip weight box. We have lost mufflers (Paul lost one on his B-17 during an official)...more lock washers. We ALL have a loose bolt at some time or another.

So: It is good to do a check list. Every several flights, check all your bolts. Especially:

the motor mounts.

The muffler (or header pipe, if applicable. Yes, it can come loose. Been there, done that. Now we add Locktite. Still had it come loose. Check it!)

All bolt on horns (or pushrods)

Adjustable leadouts

Adjustable tip weight boxes.

Landing gear.

Handle!!!

Anything else that can (and will) come loose.

When flying "real" airplanes they teach you to go through a checklist. It would be good to make one up for your model airplane and go through this periodically, too. It would save a lot of grief.

On the couple of pints of whatever for lunch. I used to pit racing airplanes having quaffed a few, with no bad effects that I recall. However, one time flying a stunt airplane having had a beer or several was enough for me to learn about that. Alcohol has adverse effects on timing and judgement. You do not want your timing and judgement adversed when learning to fly or practicing the pattern. Save your drinking for celebrating a good day's flying.

There are no stronger needle valves that I know of. However, as someone suggested, you can stick on bits of plywood to protect them. I don't like that, as it presumes a crash.

Another solution is to reverse the needle so that twistable part of the needle is down, and protected by the gear. I don't like that solution either, as it is hard to adjust on the ground.

I like the idea of leaving everything normal, and taking your lumps if you crash inverted.

An important first step!

>I
>knocked of THAT needle too!

Ooops!
>
>
>So it was back to the
>Ukey40 which for some reason
>I crashed - from the
>take off it went 'up
>and over' lost line tension
>etc.

Been there almost done that with a Peacemaker which seemed to prefer that buttock clenching style of launch which had me running backwards at an indecent pace to take up the slack and thankfully I recovered the plane on all three occasions.
>
>I blame it on the 2
>pints of Guiness Irvin had
>forced on me at lunch!
>
>
>The damage is not too bad
>- broke the prop -

Get your hands on some Tornado props, they take an awfull lot of abuse and come back for more. Hallam models stock them as do Flitehook.

>knocked one wing off -
>the cockpit and fin were
>wiped off and the elevator
>split.

I comprehensively trashed my pal's Bluepants last week.
>
>Still not too disheartened!

Last week I trashed the aformentioned Blue Pants, had an Oliver Tiger engine leave the airframe midflight, cracked the fuselage of a Peacemaker and to top it all a catapult glider that i took with me for the quiet moments flew out of sight. Some 10 year old kids who had been watching us fly were devastated by the carnage and loss and could not understand why we were not in tears.

>What do you suggest I replace
>the fragile Fox and McCoy
>needle valves with?

Funnily enough I came across a solution today in an old Aeromodeller that i bought at todays free flight meeting (too windy to fly!). A needle valve protector can be fabricated from dural to bolt onto the lugs of the engine and sit behind the needle valve preventing it from being moved rearwards when planes meet terra firma. It's a siple L-shaped braket. Should work well to solve your problem unless you crash your plans tail first

The other benefit of the rummage through s/h aeromodellers is that I cam across a plan for a PAW .60 TBR powered stunt ship. Plan plus mag came to 20pence (28 cents to US readers) Yippee!!!

I can not urge you stringly enough to get some Tornado props until all of your landings are planned. You might also consider swapping the needle valve round even though it may cause adjustment difficulties on the ground.

Keep yer pecker up

Vernon

>Tony

Steve H: Yes moving the pushrod may have added to the problem - I also seem to think that for some reason we may have launched into wind - it was a very hot day for the UK (high-80's) and lots of people were getting hot and bothered and doing silly things. Yes I did feel for the bump when starting you know at least that the engines firing then.

Larry F: As I say the main problem I have with the needle valves is hitting them whilst I'm trying to start the engine - I've probably got my finger to far near the prop hub and to far into the prop.

Vernon L: The prop I was using was an ancient TF 10-6 nylon I suspect it was quite brittle due to age anyway.

Sorry to hear about the Blue Pants and I hope your pal is still your pal!

I will get some Tornado props - they seem they only true Nylon props around these days.

PS: I have received clearance (from 'She Who Must Be Obeyed') to go to the Nats (the UK nats of course) at the end of the month.

To all: I'm going to investigate the Super Tigre and Modella NVA routes as I've wrecked both the Fox ones I had - the McCoy needle was bent in the crash but survived - I've straigtened it up but still think I need something a tad more crash resistant for a while.

You can get the choke area back by filing the sides of the bar to the same approximate width of the Fox needle, but you will still need to drill the cross hole larger to insert the needle.

Both the OS and the ST needles are much more user friendly on the Fox as the Fox uses threads that are too coarse. And they have been doing this forever, so they aren't about to change--even though it would keep the engine still looking the same and running the same but easier to needle.

If anyone is interested in trying these, I have the entire assembly available in one package--the metal bracket to mount on the back plate, the needle assembly, the front spray bar, and even the tube and spring clip to use in attaching it. The metal bracket is slotted so it will fit a variety of engines in the 20-46 size range.

I used the rear needle on my Fox for a while. All it takes is a bracket on the backplate, and for the spraybar I used an old brass Fox spraybar with the needle hole, and one of the outlet holes soldered over. Worked well, didn't leak, and most importantly, didn't break off when the engine quit on outside turns.

I would also point out that the remote needle/metering assembly is a part of the smaller OS carburetors,a nd can be liberated for use from those carbs people have been throwing away.

I'm confused?

I though that the ST51 NVA was a 'straight swap out' for the Fox all the replies on the other board where I posted this message say so as does the RSM website.

What's the story?

Tornados are just he icket to start with. It took me a while to figure that one out. I as getting through £8 - £10 quids worth of props per session at first. The last one I broke was when my flying partner lowered the compression on the diesel in my Blue Pants before he launched it with brely enough powere to stay airborne. He has a preference for running engines with engine running off the boil. I am considering replacing the compression screws with allen head screws to stop him tinkering.

>Sorry to hear about the Blue
>Pants and I hope your
>pal is still your pal!

Oh yes. Dave enjoys the challenge of resurrection.
>
>PS: I have received clearance (from
>'She Who Must Be Obeyed')
>to go to the Nats
>(the UK nats of course)
>at the end of the
>month.
>
Boy, oh boy. You will have a whale of a time. Take loads of dosh with you for:

goodies at the Sunday morning swap meet

PAW engines at ex VAT prices

balsa at unbelievable prices

a curry in nearby Grantham, one of the best curry houses I have ever been to.

Hope to see you there. I should have a PAW .60 combat wing built by then and I'll be taking it along for fun.

Wow - great thread! First of all, congratulations on finally getting into the air! I KNOW how you feel - been there!

You've been getting really excellent advice here - I have nothing to add except how happy I am to see you've finally gotten your wings dirty! Welcome to the fraternity!

I have used a lot of Super Tiger and some Joe Klause NVA, with the collet tightening system, and recently one of the clones that Leonard sold me (on a Magnum .25 with own Delrin venturi). While they work, they are not great favorites for the simple reason that the "L" bend is more prone to self-adjusting. The cause of this is the NV is not symetrical, and when pointed in some directions, is more susceptible to vibration due to the engine vibes being in various directions more than others (I think... Brett could no doubt explain better or blow this theory completely out of the water... For the short time I did a bit of NWSR/FoxBerg Racing, I used a Joe Klause NVA with the ratchet (can I say that here?) from a Fox NVA. I cut the notched disc out of a Fox NV, drilled a hole through it to get rid of the shaft, and soldered it onto the KKK unit, maybe the knob too. I furgit! The knob is much easier to turn without getting into the prop than the bent NV, critical on a short engine like the Fox .35.
The Tornado "nylon" props you want are the white ones, which is described as "poly____". You don't want the Magnum variety (black), which are stiffer and more breakable...good stuff when you learn not to crash so often. Our Regional "D-Bat" (vintage Diesel Combat) rules specify (or specified at one time) the white Tornado "poly" prop, 8-6, I believe. The prop was so durable and so limited performance that speeds were very even. Topflite nylon props were never popular for my group, as one guy had a blade throw off his Mac .36 (pre-redhead, seperate front end, no backplate, like an old Enya). The engine hit the concrete wall of the building we sometimes flew IN and hurt it. Top Flite sent a new prop. It wasn't used. KAVAN makes a flexible prop that Hobby Lobby sells over here, billed as flexible and tough. Like most stuff German, they're pricey, but you may be able to find them there at a better price.
Let us know how the "Modela NVA" works and post a picture if you can?! By the way, "Hobby Club" (my Taipan prop connection) sells some small Modela diesel and glow sport engines, so I will have to check and see if they can get the NVA. How about sending me a part number if you get one from Just Engines? I also will see if MECOA/RJL has or makes the K&B Universal NVA. Steve

Hi Steve.

No part no I'm afraid - it looks very similar to the NVA on my Torpedo & Stallions.

The barrel is .155 which makes it the same as the St51.

The other NVA is the remains of one of my Foxes.

Tone

I have a 1/2 prop extension if I put this on the motor it will probably take my fingers away from the needle enough to stop me whacking it - but what other effects will it have? Will it increase vibration much etc.

Now if Fox had just made the shaft half an inch longer to begin with...

If they had made the venturi replaceable so we could change its size...

If they had updated the engine with modern porting...

If they had changed the head shape...

Maybe added ball bearings...

(Whoops, I think I just "invented" the Thunder Tiger 36)