First run Saito 40 -ruined !

Hi all
I mounted my brand new Saito 40 in in test model.
1. aluminium pads under mounts.
2. 11 x 4 Master black prop
3. 10% Flair fuel
4. 4 ounce Sullivan tank plumbed for muffler pressure with
twin pipes , shorter on pressure ,clunk has a filter
5. Factory supplied glow plug
It was setup as perfectly as I am able.
So I started the motor and was impressed with the smooth run and
2 flick start.
The needle was 2 1/2 turns open per instructions. I let it settle for
about a minute. It was obviously very rich. Then I got my tacho from
the tool box and read 6000 rpm. looking really good. All this was on the ground with the model restrained in a stooge. The motor had now been running for about 3 minutes and I had decided to run 3 or 4 tanks through without changing anything, when there was an abrupt stop
and a great silence. When I turned the prop over it was apparent that
nothing inside the motor was moving.
I returned to the workshop and removed the motor .On opening the backplate the damage inside was incredible Boken con-rod and lot of
black gunge in there.
WHAT DID I DO WRONG ?
Sent the motor back for (expensive ) repair.
Going to my room now for a long sulk!
Some days----------
Vincent
Vincentzo

Doesn't sound like you did anything wrong, although I do not know what 10% flair fuel is. I broke my Saito 40 in using 10% nitro 22% oil 50% castor. Saitos have a 3 year warranty and they will probably fix it no charge.

At least it's in the wane of the season. Could've happened in early spring. I don't think it takes too long for a turnaround from Saito, get in in quick.

Any more news about the makeup of that Flair 10% fuel?

Tony

http://www.the.elmores.btinternet.co.uk/stunt/_cat001.html

http://www.the.elmores.btinternet.co.uk/articles/articles_cat.html

Hi Tony
Flair yellow No.FL7008 is made up of:
10% Nitro
20% Castor oil
70% Methanol
Works fine with all my other motors both 2 stroke and 4 stroke
I will recover once I have the motor back in my hands!!
Thanks
Vincent
Vincentzo

I don't know if you lubed the bottom of the case before you started the motor. Lubrication is accomplished on our motors by blowby on the piston rings, its really a terrible way to do it.
I usually inject oil into the breather hole and make sure that the motor is well lubed before that first start,otherwise you might have run it with a dry bottom and it takes only a short bit of running till the rod goes.
I remember when I bought the first model OS60 open rocker in the 70's and showed it to a friend in the automotive field. His comment was that it was a giant step backward in every way. The only 4 stroke that I really lusted after was the never released ST 120 four stroke that circulated fuel through the case

Vincent - Working with quite a few SAITOs, I have only had a problem with one. I sent it back to Horizon Hobby and they took care of it immediately. They are excellent to work with and quite knowledgeable about their engines.
Bob Z

I'm sorry this had to happen to you. I have had very happy success with all of my four stroke engines.

I have always pumped some lube into the crankcase breather hole before the first run and do the first runs with the RC throttle linkage near idle. The engine really should be in a test stand instead of a model for the first try. Yes, we used to break them in while flying the RC models. I have learned that CLPA is a different animal. You cannot just chop the throttle and land if you miss the setting.

In any case, I doubt if this caused the catastrophic failure. I would suspect a defective part and hope Saito lives up to their three year warranty. Please let us know how this turns out.

Here's a question. Saito recommends a very low breakin rpm-4000rpm for the first 10 minutes. They also suggest a shot of oil into the crancase breather and a few drops down the pushrod tubes (this is from the engine manual). Although it isn't obvious from the instructions, did you get your low rpm's from a very rich setting or by closing the throttle? I did both. If you just ran a rich mixture at full open throttle, that might have caused the your problem.

I do think Saito or the local distributor will fix it up for you at no charge.

>The needle was 2 1/2 turns open per instructions. I let it
>settle for
>about a minute. It was obviously very rich. Then I got my
>tacho from
>the tool box and read 6000 rpm. looking really good.

You were not rich. Did you remove the battery? Your RPM was too high. Maybe the motor was defective.

Vincent,

While you will not be pleased to hear this, if I had to place a bet my money says this was a self-inflicted problem.

As Godzilla says, you certainly did not have a "rich" setting, at least not the sort of rich setting I want to see with a new four-stroke.

First, the revs were pretty high when compared to my initial run-in of both a Saito 56 and a 72. And while you do not mention this, I had to use constant heat to glow plug in order to keep the engines running.

While I don't recall seeing it in the Saito instruction manual, Bob Zambelli did have a good tip in Stunt News several months ago and that was to pump fuel into engine via that outlet on bottom of case, and to do this prior to initial start-up. (At least I think that's what he said.)

Regardless of the cause of failure, I'm sure Horizon will back their product. Especially when it could have been a manufacturing fault all along.

Dan - I have been doing that routinely ever since I bought a used 4S at a swap meet. I took off the backplate and found it to be completely dry inside, as if cleaned in some powerful solvent. In addition to squirting oil into the case, I also remove the valve cover(s) and let some oil drizzle down the push-rod tubes and over the valve gear. I may have made an error regarding what to squirt into the vent. If I said fuel, I should have said oil. How much to put in? I figure that excess oil will just pump out the breather as you crank it over. If you notice on the older 4S, the vent is in the backplate, allowing the path of least resistance to be straight out the back. Now, seems most of the breathers are between the two crankshaft bearings, forcing the lube into the bearing area before exiting the engine. Make sense to me!
By the way, ever hear of something called Windsor lube?
Bob Z

My mistake. You did in fact specify oil, not fuel. And I have taken this advice seriously, both with new motors and pieces which have not been used for a couple months.

Do not know what Windsor lube might be. Although with the latest royalty scandal in England I might be able to make up something quite entertaining even if wildly inaccurate.

I think it important to note that Saito is concerned enough about lube to lower end of rod that they apparently smear some plenty-nasty grease on pin of crank. I assume this stuff is counted upon to get the rod bearing through the worst of its run-in cycle; but with lube of all four-strokes being rather tenuous in nature--in fact, defying common sense--it seems wise to always err to the side of great caution in handling these engines when new. Or a used engine with which one does not know the true history of its operation and/or condition.