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Dodads, accents and other useless stuff

Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 39 of 39 known posts recovered

Randy · Nov 10, 2003 09:34 PM

#0 source
I'm at the part of a plane that I usually like, but right now am sorta hating it. You know, the part where the plane is largely built and you're just finishing up the details. Fitting wheelpants and cowling, putting on farings for the flaps and elevators, getting ready for fillets and such. Normally, a week or two from starting the finish.

So the question is, how do folks here do stuff like exit vents from the nose or clever detail on the wheelpants or whatever? My current plane is coming out a great deal lighter than any I've built in years and I find that I begrudge any sort of nonsense that might add weight. Even the silly balsa exit vents I carved (laboriously, I might add...all eight of them) for the hot air exits from the nose I'm thinking about just sanding off and leaving just the holes.

I can't help but feel I'm just adding weight rather than coming up with something to add to the aesthetics of the plane. They do look cool, though.

Any thoughts? I'm mostly just rambling to convince myself that all the extra work is worth it, I guess, but it's been years since I built a sub-60oz, 700 square inch plane.

Randy Powell

mcm · Nov 10, 2003 09:41 PM

#1 source
When you finally look at it when it's done, all the little bells and whistles are always worth it. How much weight can a few of them really add? When I look at one of Fancher's cowls, I drool. Little things are so important if you are really good. I'm doing good to have the sides of the bottom cowl match the fuse, but I sure do love seeing cool extras on planes. Even little placards on the fuse or cowling seem so very neat. Go with the heart. You are the one that will be looking at it every day. You can always find enough power these days to overcome an extra ounce.

Randy · Nov 11, 2003 01:02 PM

#14 source
LAST EDITED ON Nov-11-03 AT 01:02 PM (CST)
 
mcm,

Actually, I was kinda hoping that Ted would answer. He has the coolest cowls around and his planes aren't heavy. I've love to hear how he did some of those trick vent ideas.

Randy Powell

wingwalk · Nov 10, 2003 09:54 PM

#2 source
Randy,

Yes you can build a wonderful plane by following the plans. It will even come out light and fly better because you take the time to sand a little more here, and shave a little weight there. However, It's the small details that each person does on a plane that makes it stand out. It may not make it fly better, but there's something to be said for "COOL" if you know what I mean. It's amazing what a panel line can do to the over all look of a plane and it's just ink! Should you sand off the vents? That's up to you to decide but it may just be the thing that sets your plane apart from the next guy to you that has the same plane! Just a few thoughts from a guy that wants to make a gem stone some day from a rock!!!

Kirk Wicker
www.wingwalk.com

Crist Rigotti · Nov 10, 2003 11:18 PM

#3 source
Randy,
You are at what I call the "weary" stage. Every plane I build, I have the same feelings. The next 2 weeks are the toughest. I take a little break, plan out what I want to do an do just a bit at a time. Constantly reminding myself that I must take my time at this stage and "work" myself through it. Hang in there buddy, you'll get through it...you're not alone!

Crist Rigotti
"A driver trying to be a pilot."

Curt Contrata · Nov 10, 2003 11:58 PM

#4 source
It all depends on personal goals. If your goal is to be recognized for you building skills, then go for it any way you know how. If your goal is to win the U.S. Nationals, then you may find that your time will be better spent at the field.

It's up to you to decide but, as a general rule, cool is heavy and heavy is usually not better.

For me, I only add details that do not add weight and will help cover the flaws. Filler, Balsa, CA, and putty, all add weight, ink is very light.

Curt

GLBahrman · Nov 11, 2003 12:12 AM

#5 source
Randy,
EVERY JOB IS A SELF PORTRAIT OF THE PERSON WHO DID IT!!
Norman Rockwell

Take the time and go for it. You will be proud.

Greg L. Bahrman

Currell · Nov 11, 2003 10:01 AM

#9 source
>Randy,
> EVERY JOB IS A SELF PORTRAIT OF THE PERSON WHO DID IT!!
> Norman Rockwell
>
>Take the time and go for it. You will be proud.

Then I'm in trouble. Currell

Tim McTigue · Nov 11, 2003 06:57 PM

#20 source
>>Randy,
>> EVERY JOB IS A SELF PORTRAIT OF THE PERSON WHO DID IT!!
>> Norman Rockwell
>>
>>Take the time and go for it. You will be proud.
>
>Then I'm in trouble. Currell

Then I'm truly in the deep stuff, LOL!

Tim

MAAC 65703

Steve Helmick · Nov 11, 2003 12:54 AM

RE: Doodads, accents and other useless stuff#6 source
LAST EDITED ON Nov-11-03 AT 00:58 AM (CST)
 
Kirk has it all wrong. Randy's stuff is very creative and original, aerodynamically, style, paint and powertrain. That said, I think clean, slick, and tasteful beats a cluttered, gimicky look. It should also be easier to make it "perfect", and less likely to suffer wear and tear. You're already going to have 6 colors, a bold graphic paint scheme, a bizarre name lettered carefully so as to be difficult to read (and not mean anything without a handy Websters), and there will be some of those fake bullet holes, I hope. I think Crist has it about right. Take a few nights off, plan your work, and work a few hours a day until it's done. Now's not the time to rush it. Steve

PS: For Dan

wingwalk · Nov 11, 2003 06:40 PM

RE: Doodads, accents and other useless stuff#19 source
Gosh Steve, I never said Randy's planes weren't creative, straight, original, or otherwise. Heck, I don't even know who Randy is. Sorry Randy if you are a famous stunt flyer, but I am new to this so forgive me He may build and create the most spectacular planes in the world, but I was just trying to give my opinion to the question he posted.

" So the question is, how do folks here do stuff like exit vents from the nose or clever detail on the wheelpants or whatever? My current plane is coming out a great deal lighter than any I've built in years and I find that I begrudge any sort of nonsense that might add weight. Even the silly balsa exit vents I carved (laboriously, I might add...all eight of them) for the hot air exits from the nose I'm thinking about just sanding off and leaving just the holes.

I can't help but feel I'm just adding weight rather than coming up with something to add to the aesthetics of the plane. They do look cool, though.

Any thoughts? I'm mostly just rambling to convince myself that all the extra work is worth it, I guess, but it's been years since I built a sub-60oz, 700 square inch plane."


All I was saying is that if everyone built the same stamped out plane, where would anyones creativity, origiality or style show through? (Your words for Randy's planes and I bet they are AWSOME from what you wrote!!!) I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything about hanging mud flaps with the naked lady on a plane or hanging fuzzy dice and dingle balls in the canopy. Wait a minute... I just got an idea! Seriously, All I was trying to express was that it's a pleasue to see a plane where someone has taken the extra time involved to make it that much more attractive. That can be anything from sanding and buffing paint to a mirror finish, to beautiful fillets and a tight fitting cowl and clever detail on wheel pants. The time taken to do detail is souly up to each builder. It may be a plane for all out stunt competition where weight means everything. Or it may be a plane for fun stunt. Either way its up to the individual to decide on just how much time he or she is willing to put into the details of the model. I whole heartedly agree that at the point Randy is at, that one should step back for a while. Think about what it is that you want to accomplish with the end result. Figure out how to get there from here. Then do what it takes a little at a time till its done the way you want it to be.

From what Steve wrote about Randy's planes, I bet he has taken the time in the past to make them stand out in the crowd. I'll even bet Steve's planes have a flair to them that would make me want to build and finish to his standards. Then again, most of the planes I see make me want to do the next one that much better.

So, if anyone thinks I was trying to say sacrifice straight, light and true over creating the wildest pimpmobile with wings. I am deeply sorry.

Oh by the way, where can i get some of those fake bullit hole from?

Steve, Randy, and all the rest of you guys and gals that build the coolest planes I wish I ever had.... Thank you for making this hobby so much fun!!!

Kirk Wicker
www.wingwalk.com

Randy · Nov 11, 2003 07:32 PM

RE: Doodads, accents and other useless stuff#21 source
Kirk,

Believe me, they ain't that great.

>>I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything about hanging mud flaps with the naked lady on a plane or hanging fuzzy dice and dingle balls in the canopy.<<

Well, there was a naked lady on one...

The one I'm building is a redesign of the one on my avatar (the little picture next to my posts).

Randy Powell

wingwalk · Nov 11, 2003 08:13 PM

RE: Doodads, accents and other useless stuff#22 source
Ok, I have seen pics of the Avatar. Steve is correct that your planes have style... To say the least! Hope to meet you sometime in the future.

Kirk Wicker
www.wingwalk.com

Steve Helmick · Nov 12, 2003 12:03 AM

RE: Doodads, accents and other useless stuff#23 source


Kirk, here's Randy's "Tango Red" and 2003 Heretic. Steve

wingwalk · Nov 12, 2003 06:21 AM

RE: Doodads, accents and other useless stuff#25 source
Thanks Steve,

Now I'll have those planes running through my mind and will never get one of mine done now! Those are incredible pieces of art! I can't imagine why Randy even had to ask the question in the first place. He should just stay in the zone he must be in already and keep on turning out planes that IMHO by far stand out in a crowd!!!!


BRAVO, BRAVO !!!!


Kirk Wicker
www.wingwalk.com

Randy · Nov 12, 2003 10:15 AM

RE: Doodads, accents and other useless stuff#26 source
See Steve, there are only 5 colors.

Kirk,

I asked because, while those planes look OK, both are overweight. Tango not as bad as the other, but both far less than optimum. Since the new plane is actually coming out in a decent weight range, I was just perseverating over aesthetics.

I finished up the vents and added less than a 1/8 oz to the overall weight, so I guess it's OK.

Randy Powell

wingwalk · Nov 12, 2003 12:28 PM

RE: Doodads, accents and other useless stuff#29 source
So when will we see pics of the mysteryship with the revised air exits? Inquiring minds want to know...

Kirk Wicker
www.wingwalk.com

Randy · Nov 12, 2003 03:52 PM

RE: Doodads, accents and other useless stuff#32 source
Kirk,

Maybe never. I hope to finish the framing up in the next week or so. This vent and cowl stuff has gotten me sidetracked. I haven't even built the control surfaces yet.

Randy Powell

Steve Helmick · Nov 12, 2003 09:06 PM

RE: Doodads, accents and other useless stuff#37 source


>See Steve, there are only 5 colors.
>
Randy Powell

No, Randy...I think you missed a couple of colors...more than 5. Count them again.... Steve

Randy · Nov 13, 2003 12:23 AM

RE: Doodads, accents and other useless stuff#38 source
Steve,

Hmm, let's see:

Tango Red: Red, Yellow, Black, White. You're right that's only 4.
Heretic: Red, Yellow, Blue, Black, White. Looks like 5.
Shoestring: Red and Yellow. Hmm, only 2. But there were some black inklines and a black canopy, so I guess you could say 3.

But the new plane, ah, it's will have 9 or 10, I think. Think shading and gradients. Whole new paint scheme and no yellow at all. Wow!

Randy Powell

Who is busily looking at the inside of stranger's car doors for paint codes---

Ty Marcucci · Nov 11, 2003 04:08 AM

#7 source
Since getting back into PA and building again, I find that each new plane , for me, should show some type of advancement in the art, and my reaquired or newley aquired skills. On my Galloping Comedian I used B25 silver for the first time, did several inked panel lines, added nomenclature such as "up", "down" over the leadouts, "No Step", "Weight Box", and little things that helped make the model more like a real airplane. If it does not add to the looks, don't do it. I found 97 ways to leave my lover and how not to make cowls. Lesson: buy one that fits or get some help. Also, and this is very important, if building gets to be tedious, walk away for a day and do something totally unrelated to model planes, like take the wife out to dinner.
In the end, it's your plane, your effort, and you have to live with it. We all want that peer approval for our efforts. Bottom line, does it fly? In the hot rod world the old saying was, "If it don't go, chrome it for show". The other was,:"Paint it green and hide it in the grass".
It's your plane, are you happy with it??

Randy · Nov 11, 2003 09:54 AM

#8 source
Thanks for all the responses. The good part is, something here (not sure what exactly) gave me an idea.

And Steve, I've never used more than 5 colors.

Randy Powell

Larry Cunningham · Nov 11, 2003 10:24 AM

RE: Dodads, accents and other useless stuff - and#10 source
OK, Randy, now's no time to choke up.. Go for broke! (As Al might say.)

I just wanted to congratulate you for the design article in the latest Stunt News on calculating Mean Aerodynamic Chord. Very good stuff, I'm glad to see the technical contents of Stunt News increasing again.

Randy, I actually read you BEFORE Dirty Dan! (The Dirt is whining about a "heavy" Impact, poor bloke..)

(And Randy, when are we going to see an article on making those fabulous, agressive COWLS?)

In case you haven't got your SN, it's another very good issue, and a fine gentleman named Dee Rice has a construction article on his very new piped ship, the Oriental Plus II..

And Robert Compton has photos of repairing his new Cobra after the outboard wing was modified by flying into an obstacle (human head).

(Those not in PAMPA are missing out, Stunt News is great, as usual.)

Best regards,

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"I'll take Obscure Russian Operetas for 1000, Wink.."

Randy · Nov 11, 2003 11:43 AM

RE: Dodads, accents and other useless stuff - and#11 source
Larry,

Well, Thanks. I guess.

Gary has been working on this awhile. He and I talked about it quite a bit. Wish the graphs would have come out a bit better, but Will and I had a tough time getting this together. Sigh, such is life.

I'm working on a cowl thing for the next issue. I'm going home tonight to grind off the first attempt at "doodads" and do something different. I have an idea that's a little less weird. I'll send you a picture when I'm done with it. Right now, it looks a little too much like the Nautilus. Hmm, maybe I can get a Captain Nemo pilot.

Randy Powell

dirtydan · Nov 12, 2003 03:14 PM

RE: Dodads, accents and other useless stuff - and#30 source

>
>Randy, I actually read you BEFORE Dirty Dan! (The Dirt is
>whining about a "heavy" Impact, poor bloke..)
>

Larry,

Wrong again, you poor lefty. You read Gary Letsinger before my whining.

Gary is also an excellent wood worker who whipped up several Very Cool flight line boxes, complete with meter, metal front panel, on/off switch, four (4) "D-"size dry cells for power, etc., etc.

At the NW Skyraiders Roundup Gary asked me over to his car, showed me one of the boxes and asked if I wanted one.

I answered in the positive, but wanted to know why he was giving me such a generous gift.

"Because I appreciate all the work you have done for this district over the years, especially the columns in Stunt News."

There was a long pause...

"Uh, Gary, you do know that I decided to bail on that position and that Bruce Hunt is running unopposed?"

No matter. I had my hands on the flight-line box, used it that very day, been using it since.

Dan

Larry Cunningham · Nov 12, 2003 04:15 PM

RE: Dodads, accents and other useless stuff - and#33 source
Sorry, I should have said "your column" instead of "you".. The article was indeed written by Gary.

(I'm not sure why the Dirt deserves a flight box, but even a blind hog gets an occasional acorn..)

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"My phone number is 17. We got one of the early ones."

dirtydan · Nov 12, 2003 04:27 PM

RE: Dodads, accents and other useless stuff - and#34 source
>
>(I'm not sure why the Dirt deserves a flight box, but even a
>blind hog gets an occasional acorn..)
>

Larry,

I am surprised that you missed this, but upon further reflection it could very well be that Gary gave me the flight box *because* I was quitting as District 11 Dictator, not as a reward for all of the obvious damage I have done to PAMPA and this district over the years.

I am just now finishing first 2004 Bad Boy Stunt column. It contains your name. Can I leave it in? No other details will be supplied.

Dan

Randy · Nov 12, 2003 04:55 PM

RE: Dodads, accents and other useless stuff - and#35 source
Dan,

Funny, my first design article of 2004 also includes Larry's name. Hmm, and yours too.

How strange...

Randy Powell

Larry Cunningham · Nov 12, 2003 06:02 PM

RE: Dodads, accents and other useless stuff - and#36 source
I admit the deed!

Tear up the planks!

It is the beating of his hideous heart!

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-eight million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue-green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea..." -Douglas Adams

cyberflyer · Nov 11, 2003 11:49 AM

#12 source

It ain't useless, but it ain't on the plans, either.

I have a Jetco Dolphin hanging on the wall, mostly in clear, waiting for well over a year now.

I have a removable cowling sitting on it awaiting a way for me to get the perfect fit and the means to attach properly.

If I'd have stuck with the open ended look shown in the plans (which still hides the inverted engine fairly well) I'd have flown it by now.

But I can't overcome the intertia of wondering how to attach this thing and then get to the final finish.

The last 10% of the airplane takes 90% of the work...

Sigh.

Randy · Nov 11, 2003 01:00 PM

#13 source
Cyber,

Hmm, you should like my snap slide cowl attachment method. Film at 11.

Randy Powell

Alan Resinger · Nov 11, 2003 02:56 PM

#15 source
Randy,
You with a light airplane???? I've just finished up the molds for some lead scoops I'm going to sell. Want me to send down a couple of pounds worth? Also after you get finished using a roller to put on about 10 coats of Spread Satin, I don't think you have to worry about it being too light. And all this coming from a guy who had to add about a half pound of lead to the nose of last years wonder. Wait til you see next years.
Alan

Randy · Nov 11, 2003 05:36 PM

#17 source
LAST EDITED ON Nov-11-03 AT 05:38 PM (CST)
 
Alan,

It was 6oz and it was to the tail...which is why the nose is much shorter this year. You were the one with a pound of lead in the nose of the Sukhoi.

I'm trying out a new finishing method this year...sorta. Promises to be light, anyway.

Randy Powell

Alan Resinger · Nov 12, 2003 12:25 PM

#28 source
Randy,
I was referring to myself about the nose weight. Never again, as I lengthened the nose and the 72 is all broken in.
Alan

Randy · Nov 12, 2003 03:50 PM

#31 source
Alan,

Sorry, I misunderstood. Besides, I so seldom get to poke fun at you.

Randy Powell

PS-the manifold is just about done. I'll try to finish it this weekend.

R3C2 · Nov 11, 2003 03:36 PM

#16 source
>I'm at the part of a plane that I usually like.

>So the question is, how do folks here do stuff like exit
>vents from the nose or clever detail on the wheelpants or
>whatever?

Randy, I have always admired your workmanship!!! You depart from the ordinary and MAKE BEAUTIFUL AIRPLANES! ! ! ! What ever the extra work you are putting into this plane Y E S--go for it!!!
Dave Shrum


>Any thoughts? I'm mostly just rambling to convince myself
>that all the extra work is worth it, I guess, but it's been
>years since I built a sub-60oz, 700 square inch plane.
>
>

Randy Powell


Dave Shrum-R3C-2

Randy · Nov 11, 2003 05:39 PM

#18 source
Thanks, Dave. It's already a pretty thing, I just don't want it to be a boat anchor.

Randy Powell

Nils · Nov 12, 2003 01:06 AM

#24 source
If they look cool put 'em on there Randy!

/\/\/

Randy · Nov 12, 2003 10:18 AM

#27 source
Hey Nils!!

So, how's the Tempest coming?

Randy Powell