THE WINNER IS... AMBRIOD!!

I just completed a little experiment with making hinges... I took the advice of Currel and others and got ahold of some Aircraft muslin and then tested various methods of cementing them to balsa.

Test 1... Dope... three attempts, differing methods, pulled right off.

Test 2... Pacer tech "Hinge Glue" looks like yellow wood glue only tackier. Stuck very well, but I was still able to pull off the hinge.

Test 3... Testors (green lable) pulled right off.

Test 4. Sig-ment. Stuck great, and when I pulled the hinge off it took a little wood with it.

Test 5... Ambroid. Stuck like crazy, and when I pulled the hinge off it half shredded the hinge and pulled off wood for the entire surface of the hinge!

NON scientific, but I thought I would share this anyway.
The aircraft muslin is like a nylon or kevelar fabric that is is as thin, if not thinner than other hinge material, and can't be cut with cheap or dull scissors or blades, very tough stuff. Also, this was done on straight sanded (400) balsa, no silk span, (except on the doped hinges)

A quick question on technique. Did you "pre-glue" the site for the hinge? That could make both the Testors and Sig-ment work a lot better. The classic technique for solvent type bonds is to rub glue into the bond area, then reapply glue and join the parts.

Naturally, none of us knew about this when building models so many years ago, and that was why we thought "white" glue was so marvelous. One application and things actually remained together. WOW!

I'm not surprised. True, pregluing would help all of the "cements" used. And, also this would moot the differences between Testors, Ambroid and Sig.

I use either Sig or Ambroid, and additionally make a little plastic Squeegee, about an inch wide (about the width of a hinge) to work the cement into the frabric, and into the wood. (You start with a Bondo squeegee, and cut it down. You can make quite a few this way).

Muslin is quite inexpensive, one of the cheapest fabrics out there. It is used as pocket liner material in suits, for example. (20 years ago, I had to design a special Safety Coverall, so I learned these things, like Box Stitches, etc).

At one time you could by aircraft muslin pinked hinges in small packages similar to those put out by Perfect, only much thinner and better. I stilluse Ambroid and now use the hinges sold by Tom Morris. It is aircraft (Ultra Light/Hang Glider) covering and is very thin and super strong. For those Classic models and fully closed hinge lines. I finally remembered the name of the stuff, DACRON. Yeah, that's it.

>A quick question on technique. Did you "pre-glue" the site
>for the hinge? That could make both the Testors and
>Sig-ment work a lot better. The classic technique for
>solvent type bonds is to rub glue into the bond area, then
>reapply glue and join the parts.
>
>Naturally, none of us knew about this when building models
>so many years ago, and that was why we thought "white" glue
>was so marvelous. One application and things actually
>remained together. WOW!
Well..actually when I was 14 and living in a small town in Saskatchewan, we knew that you pre-glued for strength..this was 1956.

> The aircraft muslin is like a nylon or kevelar fabric that
>is is as thin, if not thinner than other hinge material, and
>can't be cut with cheap or dull scissors or blades, very
>tough stuff. Also, this was done on straight sanded (400)
>balsa, no silk span, (except on the doped hinges)

Phil;

Where did you get this stuff from?

I believe SIG still puts it out.

Go to a fabric store, and ask one of the kindly ladies there.

If you are real nice to them, they may even let you use their pinking shears, and you can custom cut your hinges right at the store.

You can get yourself a lifetime of cloth hinges there, for just a few bucks.

Do you really get "aircraft muslin" at the local fabric store?

You can either get it there or order it from Aircraft Spruce (or WAG Aero) and pay twice as much

I vote for Ambroid. Been using it for hinges since 1961. Love to chew it off my fingers when I'm done. I'm sure there's a health risk there, but since I quit drinking I have to have something fun to do.

It's only dangerous in California. Oh...sorry...you live there. Well, maybe it's only dangerous in Southern California. Yeah, I bet that's it. Steve

I got the muslin from a guy that works a few doors away from my work, where a group of guys are rebuilding a Curtis Hawk 75. They are employed by the "Planes of Fame" museum in Chino, California and are building the Hawk off sight at the complex where I work. They are building it off sight because it is for a private museum in England... I will checking in on the progress this week and I will see if I can get some more of it...

I did pre-glue and pre-dope all the tests I did. Basically I followed the directions on the tubes I used. My test for the Testors may be flawed in the fact that since in dries so fast I did not rub it in as much as I did the Sig-ment or the Ambroid. I tried Testors since some Brodak kits recommend it...

High Phil! I hope you were using a face mask when doing all those tests although I can't remember why its a good idea?

I'm still using Duco-cement, slow drying but holds up well and I love the plastic tubes they have just like epoxy tubes. leaves no mess and drys clear.

>You can either get it there or order it from Aircraft Spruce
>(or WAG Aero) and pay twice as much :
>

Tom Morris sells Aircraft Dacron hinges for $2.00 for enough for one plane. In some article he mentioned that he got his dacron from Aircraft Spruce Co. You can get a yard from Aircraft Spruce Co. 36"X64" for $ 3.10 plus shiping and handling which, as I remember, was less than the dacron. For about $6.00, approx. the cost of 3 sets from Tom Morris, you can have a lifetime supply plus enough for all of your building buddies. It is much thinner and stronger than muslin or linen so shows less when finished. Aircraft Spruce's website is:
www.aircraftspruce.com.

>Go to a fabric store, and ask one of the kindly ladies
>there.

I do, Currell. Have been using some nylon tafetta for hinges. But I have never seen or heard of aircraft muslin in a local fabric store. I have seen cotton muslin, but don't want to go back to a natural fiber because of the rotting issues. I was intrigued by this because the fabric is supposed to be both thin and synthetic.

Do they have a product like this in the fabric stores in your location?

Don't be hung up on aircraft quality muslin. Just buy the muslin that is available. It should be OK. Currell

>Don't be hung up on aircraft quality muslin. Just buy the
>muslin that is available. It should be OK. Currell

Actually, there is a huge difference.

Years ago I used unbleached muslin for my hinges. It was fine for sport ships, but it was bulky in size, e.g. it showed, and it was prone to rotting or deterioration from sun, moisture, and fuel. And we all know that all three of those will sooner or later penetrate cloth hinges. That is why we continually hear of older ships that were resurrected going in because of rotted hinge failure.

Since then I have tried nylon tafetta, polyspan, poly-fiber mailing envelopes, and a couple of other things. All would lay flatter than cotton muslin and would not deteriorate like natural fibers do.

I guess I just wanted to see a sample of the "aircraft muslin" and see how it works, especially if it is made for synthetic materials and sun, moisture, and fuel resistant.

Phil, and others,
My wife just gave me a huge scrap of cotton/polyester muslin. The stuff is thin and strong. Is this something like y'all are talking about? We used to use old muslin bed sheets as kids.
Bill<><

I am not sure Bill,
I would be willing to bet that Tom Morris' dacron material is very close in thickness and strength. Tom recommends doping them on. The stuff I used would not stick to my satisfaction with dope. That's why I did my little experiment...

Phil,
I am assuming you used thinner to allow the dope to adhere at the bottom, then used thin coats to thoroughly fill the hinge weave. What dope were you using?

Thanks,
George

The most extreme test with dope, I did thin 50/50, then silk spanned over that, then gave it two coats about twenty minutes apart and let it sit for a little over 24 hours... I did not give it a few thin coats THEN S.S. and I did not silk span then apply hinge as decribed by "JRmodelguy" (topic ID: 6409) on Oct 7 '03

I used Aerogloss... My local Hobby shop has only just begun carrying Brodak and Sig dopes... As soon as I use up the Qt of Aerogloss I will switch to Brodak.

When you go to swaps, always rummage through those medium size boxes of "stuff" that many vendors use, just to throw in odds and ends. Even RC guys'. Oftentimes, you find the Perfect brand packages of hinges. And people will practically give them away.