Can't fly in 30 mph wings.

We seem to have a lot of windy days when its too windy to fly. I bought a kite book and have been building kites and designing my own kites. I built a triangle box kite and designed it with wing ribs like a model airplane. I was wondering if anyone ever built a model airplane specifically to fly in the wind like a kite?

There was one in Model Aviation @ 15 years ago called the Haboob, or similar. If you have a consistant wind, You can wind fly deadstick. I've seen George Aldrich fly a complete deadstick stunt pattern with a Nobler in the wind. Lazy eights are easy to do. You just whip the aitplane around into the wind and give it up, then whip it into the wind the other way and give it down. You do need an airplane that penetrates well.

I've seen George Aldrich fly a complete
>deadstick stunt pattern with a Nobler in the wind.

I don't know how to take this statement.

I simply don't think it is possible to do an overhead eight or an hourglass deadstick. I would have to be from from Missouri on this one...

You really LEAD the ship!

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'... till you can find a rock."

Its easy to fly a Combat model in the wind.....same way as above...but impossible to cut a streamer....HA

Let me elaborate my comment on George windflying the pattern. This was in 1955, so the pattern was not as well established as it is today. George had scratch built a new Nobler and this was its first flying session. I had never seen a full stunt-type airplane fly, and I thought it was huge! (All my stuff was 1/2A.) George did no adjustment to the airplane, and, so he said, flew the pattern with it the first flight. That was the first time I had ever seen the stunt pattern flown, and I came to the immediate conclusion that I could never do that. George put up several more patterns. The wind came up pretty good and after he finished the last pattern, he flew the pattern again deadstick. I was utterly amazed, and discussed it with him to confirm what I thought I had seen. I won't swear to the hourglass, but he did fly vertical and overhead eights. You can picture how big my eyes were! I've read comments by Bill Winter and others about George flying the pattern deadstick at various nats, but that was the only time I saw it done.

I generally carry a sorta Stunt Kite with me to CL contests. Bought it years ago at the suggestion of Rich Lopez. I think it is referred to as a "Mackey Kite," although that may not be correct.

It is fitted with Kevlar strings, unusual at the time, and a big ol' hunk of dowel which serves as a pretty close approximation to our CL handles.

Flies pretty neat, although it take a fair bit of wind to go fast. Just about the same amount of wind it takes to make me quit flying CL Stunt models...

Several years ago my CL Combat partner, Spence Sheldrew, took a trip to the beach with his wife. There were several stores selling all manners of kites. Spence specifically asked to buy the baddest of the bad kites, the sales clerk adamantly telling him that the fastest kite they sold was way too much for he and wifey, being the current record holder in speed at 60 mph on 100-foot lines.

So they settled on a milder number.

Spence was quickly back in the store. "Look, forget that story about how fast that kite is, I want it. I am used to flying model airplanes on 60-foot lines. And they go in excess of 120 mph. So the baddest piece you've got will be nothing more than a girlie kite by my standards. Ring it up..."

Bob Bearden was selling those, at one point in time. Mackey's Combat Kites, he called them. The ones I saw had pictures of WWI biplanes on the surface.

Even better are the mini delta stunt kites Buffalo Beano sells. They're just outside Lubbock, TX, and sell a lot of them to the local Combat fliers. At one time, they even ran ads in MACA Newsletter. These are small enough that you can actually fly them with a regular control handle. Carbon rod and ripstop nylon, not very cheap. Very lightweight and FAST. The Mears brothers always bring a pair to the Nats.

I've flown a "Stunt Kite" (2 strings), and a "Combat Kite", which has a single string, but is trimmed to go where pointed when pulled, and to go into a circle when given slack. The Stunt Kite is easy enough to fly for a CL flier, even with two handles, and the Combat Kite is very much like flying a Circle Tow equipped F1A Nordic Glider.

As for GMA flying the complete stunt pattern without power, I would think the two level laps between maneuvers would be the most challenging. The six inverted laps would really be an aerobic experience. Steve

The single string kites are called Indian Fighter kites. They fly them with glass-coated cotton string called "manjha" and try to cut off each others' lines. Some months ago, I came across a fascinating series of web pages that describes the sport. There are a lot of enthusiasts in the West, but nothing approaches what you apparently find in India - during "kite season", there will be thousands and thousands of people up on the rooftops challenging each other, each of them with stacks of kites, and kids on the prowl for cut-downs. In a way it resembles CL Combat, except it's a lot cheaper. You need lots of kites to make it through the day, and people buy "RTFs" instead of making their own.

http://www.csun.edu/~hfoao033/fighters.html
http://www.csun.edu/~ghsiung/fighters2.html
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/manjhamania/manjha/index.html
http://www.csun.edu/~ghsiung/stores.html
http://www.rediff.com/travel/1998/jan/13kite1.htm
http://www.users.waitrose.com/~canleo/india/india3.htm
http://francois.gonnet.free.fr/manjha.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~indiankites/greeting.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~indiankites/calendar.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~indiankites/designer.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~indiankites/ifk.htm

>Even better are the mini delta stunt kites Buffalo Beano
>sells. They're just outside Lubbock, TX, and sell a lot of
>them to the local Combat fliers. At one time, they even ran
>ads in MACA Newsletter.

I have one of BB's little stunt kites as flown by Bob and Andy, and for this slow-moving cowboy, it is a handful! This one is called a Prism Micron. Beano's is a cool shop-started in the 70's, as I recall as a kind of local leather craft/hippy beads/head shop. Great service on the kites. The kites are lots of fun if you can muster the reflexes.

>>Even better are the mini delta stunt kites Buffalo Beano
>>sells. They're just outside Lubbock, TX, and sell a lot of
>>them to the local Combat fliers. At one time, they even ran
>>ads in MACA Newsletter.
>
>I have one of BB's little stunt kites as flown by Bob and
>Andy, and for this slow-moving cowboy, it is a handful! This
>one is called a Prism Micron. Beano's is a cool shop-started
>in the 70's, as I recall as a kind of local leather
>craft/hippy beads/head shop. Great service on the kites. The
>kites are lots of fun if you can muster the reflexes.

Hi Kd, I feel for ya! the Micron can really move and change
directions rather quickly eh? The awesome thing is that after 45min
to 60min. you can get very precise with this "BUMBLEBEE on Steroids"
that's how Prism advertises it. That is why I use 8' line spacing
on my flying handle. Flying the Micron in 25+ mph wind really helps
me to Focus and relax......Tony

>I generally carry a sorta Stunt Kite with me to CL contests.
>Bought it years ago at the suggestion of Rich Lopez. I think
>it is referred to as a "Mackey Kite," although that may not
>be correct.
>
>It is fitted with Kevlar strings, unusual at the time, and a
>big ol' hunk of dowel which serves as a pretty close
>approximation to our CL handles.
>
>Flies pretty neat, although it take a fair bit of wind to go
>fast. Just about the same amount of wind it takes to make me
>quit flying CL Stunt models...
>
>Several years ago my CL Combat partner, Spence Sheldrew,
>took a trip to the beach with his wife. There were several
>stores selling all manners of kites. Spence specifically
>asked to buy the baddest of the bad kites, the sales clerk
>adamantly telling him that the fastest kite they sold was
>way too much for he and wifey, being the current record
>holder in speed at 60 mph on 100-foot lines.
>
>So they settled on a milder number.
>
>Spence was quickly back in the store. "Look, forget that
>story about how fast that kite is, I want it. I am used to
>flying model airplanes on 60-foot lines. And they go in
>excess of 120 mph. So the baddest piece you've got will be
>nothing more than a girlie kite by my standards. Ring it
>up..."
>

.
>Dan

>Interesting....I still have two very wornout, blown out Mackey kites,
they served as primary control line trainers and as Combat trainers.
I had the same experience as your friend Spence, I was used to 70mph
plus 1/2A Combat ships on 35' lines..I went through several "Fast"
kites, and finally ended up with a Prism Micron as my favorite...it's
a small 36" and light trick kite that can be flown in 15-30mph+ wind.
I fly on 50' Spectra and use 8" line spacing. in 25mph+ wind it pulls
like an F2D going over 100mph. It is fast and trimmable, lotsa fun.
the latest versions of the Micron are slower than 2002 and earlier
versions Tony

Here's some web pages:

http://www.buffalobeano.com/kite.htm
http://www.windpowersports.com/kites/prism/micron.html
http://www.kitesinc.com/Dual-line/All-around.php#WKMIC

>Flies pretty neat, although it take a fair bit of wind to go
>fast. Just about the same amount of wind it takes to make me
>quit flying CL Stunt models...

I can't imagine. I flew some of Ted's stunt kites one time. Lots of fun. The next time I flew airplanes I almost stuck it in the ground on the next 5 flights! Something about the the "deflection = rate" characteristic of the airplane, and the "deflection = acceleration" characteristic of the kite just really, really, messed up my reflexes/muscle memory.

> The wind came up pretty good and after he
>finished the last pattern, he flew the pattern again
>deadstick. I was utterly amazed, and discussed it with him
>to confirm what I thought I had seen. I won't swear to the
>hourglass, but he did fly vertical and overhead eights. You
>can picture how big my eyes were! I've read comments by
>Bill Winter and others about George flying the pattern
>deadstick at various nats, but that was the only time I saw
>it done.

Non eother than our own Gordan Delaney wind flew for about 5 minutes after the engine quit, at the 95 NATs (the Thursday we all thought it was too windy - little did we know...). With the big yellow twin.

I remember that. His last manuever was a horizontal square eight.

I bought a 6' stunt kite a few years ago. It flies good in a steady wind 20 mph or faster. It does not like gusty wind conditions. And it pulls like a mule at 25 mph. The wind conditions in Tennessee are never very good for kites. Kites seem to like a good steady wind speed. The wind in TN always seems to be gusty. I have a theory about the wind. According to the laws of physics if the wind blows in one place then it has to suck in another place. I think the wind in Tennessee sucks. Why do you never hear the TV weather man say the wind is sucking out of the West at 10 mph.

The kite book that I bought is 464 pages. Lots of good articals. There are several people that have done lost of research on kites. The Hargraves box kite seems to be a good one. It has a 6' biplane wing spaced 2' apart 4 wings in all front and tail. Each kite is designed for a specific wind speed. There are lots of designs to build. I built a parafoil kite out of new paper. It was an easy one to build and flies great, its a single or double line kite. The sled kite looks like it won't fly but it flies great. The diamond shape kite I bought as a boy that flew with a tail is called the Eddie kite. If you change the dementional shape of the diamond it flies great with no tail. I built a 6' eddie kite and fly it on a 100 lbs. test nylon fishing line. These kites are all fun but I would like to have a real airplane shape kite with lines to control the elevator and wing flaps.

I saw a guy on Funniest Home Videos, some guy tied a home built airplane to a tree with a 500 ft rope and flew it in a high wind. The guy actually got in the airplane and flew it. This makes me wonder if someone could build a Sterling Ringmaster Model Airplane or any model airplane with a 30 foot wing span and do the same thing. Get in the airplane and actually fly it in a high wind. That would be fun.

Heck, tether the airplane to a huge anchor with steel cable and fly the Pattern..

Thanks for the links, Isky. Don't forget, the CF tubing and Icarex coverings are great stuff for models, at least if you don't mind the ripstop weave. The FAI FF guys know which Icarex to order. Some don't work, some work well. I could find out, if anybody wants to try it. Steve

The FAI FF guys know which
Icarex to order. Some don't work, some work well. I could
find out, if anybody wants to try it. Steve

Art Ellis started covering F1A (Nordic towline gliders) with Icarex a few years ago, and the results were pretty good. Very tough and puncture proof, and the rougher surface has potential advantages vis-a-vie turbulation. I would be interested to know specifically which material is recommended.

A web search came up with these links:

http://www.tufflight.com/icarex.html

This one talks about covering EPP wings with Icarex. They apply the material at a 45 degree bias, to allow spanwise flex but preventing twist.

http://www.voltaircube.com/Icarex/index.html

These people SELL the fabric, as well as RC kits and carbon rods, so it's probably the correct stuff. It's not particularly cheap - about more or less the same cost as Moneykote.

http://www.windpowersports.com/accessories/icarex.html

This is a kite store.

http://www.bfk.com/kite97/icarex.htm
http://www.foreverflying.com/icarex-pc.html

These sell the "new polycarbonate Icarex".

There are tons of other links, but most of them seem to be for the Zeiss camera of the same name.