.15 cl motor

I am going to put a .15 motor on a Dave Pratt Tom Cat. What out there would be a good over all engine. Is the Cox .15 motor any good. Only know about the .049. OS,FOX,Enya? What one would you use? and why:D

Os 15 LA off the shelf is the way to go. A Cox 15 has some parts issue glow plug is one.

Scott (swap meets are kool)Riese

LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-03 AT 01:24 AM (CST)
 
For a Dave Pratt design a .09-.15 diesel would be a good choice.

Im haven't seen a os .15 right off any shelf Steve. Are you saying to get a rc motor, then get a venturi?

Check out the ASP .15. I just got a pair (actually, one was a SC .15 - essentially the same thing) from Just Engines in England. It cost $60 delivered (to Malaysia). You get a 15% discount because of no VAT. I think the Stunt venturi will set you back an extra five pounds (about $7) (in place of the RC carb). Mine will get used for Combat.

The advantage of these over the .15FP - it's a ball bearing engine, and it weighs 4 oz. as opposed to 6 (sans muffler, of course). Just Engines can provide you with alternate mufflers, too.

>Check out the ASP .15. I just got a pair (actually, one was
>a SC .15 - essentially the same thing) from Just Engines in
>England. It cost $60 delivered (to Malaysia). You get a 15%
>discount because of no VAT. I think the Stunt venturi will
>set you back an extra five pounds (about $7) (in place of
>the RC carb). Mine will get used for Combat.
>
>The advantage of these over the .15FP - it's a ball bearing
>engine, and it weighs 4 oz. as opposed to 6 (sans muffler,
>of course). Just Engines can provide you with alternate
>mufflers, too.

Which muffler would you use and why. They offer with the asp .15 a venturi attached.I copies and here is the paste.
When ordering you have a choice – a short dustbin type cast from alloy with an adjustable tail pipe and
fitted with a brass pressure nipple. Or the usual expansion type cast in two pieces, once again with an
offset adjustable tail pipe (or a quiet baffled silencer). The front portion is heavily finned both on the
manifold and on the front can top and bottom, once again fitted with a brass pressure nipple. Both tail
cones have been drilled and tapped for the X head through bolt, which also has a locking security nut so
that it doesn’t come apart in flight. Both come with their own X head mounting bolts and manifold
gasket and both offer a good noise reduction for just a little loss of power.

>>Check out the ASP .15. I just got a pair (actually, one was
>>a SC .15 - essentially the same thing) from Just Engines in
>>England. It cost $60 delivered (to Malaysia). You get a 15%
>>discount because of no VAT. I think the Stunt venturi will
>>set you back an extra five pounds (about $7) (in place of
>>the RC carb). Mine will get used for Combat.
>>
>>The advantage of these over the .15FP - it's a ball bearing
>>engine, and it weighs 4 oz. as opposed to 6 (sans muffler,
>>of course). Just Engines can provide you with alternate
>>mufflers, too.
>
>Which muffler would you use and why. They offer with the asp
>.15 a venturi attached.I copies and here is the paste.
>When ordering you have a choice – a short dustbin type cast
>from alloy with an adjustable tail pipe and
>fitted with a brass pressure nipple. Or the usual expansion
>type cast in two pieces, once again with an
>offset adjustable tail pipe (or a quiet baffled silencer).
>The front portion is heavily finned both on the
>manifold and on the front can top and bottom, once again
>fitted with a brass pressure nipple. Both tail
>cones have been drilled and tapped for the X head through
>bolt, which also has a locking security nut so
>that it doesn’t come apart in flight. Both come with
>their own X head mounting bolts and manifold
>gasket and both offer a good noise reduction for just a
>little loss of power.

Also they have the .12 which is the same motor mounting as the .15
I mostly after reading everyones replys that the .12 would be better.
It's 4 ounces Your comments are appriciated

The web site, incidentally, is here:

http://www.justengines.unseen.org/ASP.htm

The .12 and the .15 are based on the same case, the .12 is 30g less (about an ounce less) and costs a little bit less. The listed weight includes the muffler and carb, if I'm not mistaken. I'm surprised the .12 weighs less - it's got the same stroke as the .15. The .21 is also an interesting engine - it is about the same weight as a lot of .15s.

I don't know much about the mufflers - I won't be using mine at all, but I might use them later if I ever take up RC. The CL venturi and needle is an "extra" item, Paul was saying it was an extra five pounds. If I recall correctly, in his paper catalog he has a huge variety of mufflers, including tongue mufflers.

This may seem to be a weird request, but would you please try the ASP with an APC 9-4 or 9-5? I'm looking for a light .15 that runs well at low RPM.

I wouldn't be using that muffler either, if it weighs five pounds, even for stunt.

OK..

But these are going on "Slow F2D" planes, so no Stunt venturis.

Incidentally, the printed catalog states the weight of the .12 is the same as the .15 - 180 grams, I think, WITH muffler and RC carb.

The Web site says 165 gm. Mick Lewis's review says the stunt version is 155 gm with muffler. How much is it without?

LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-03 AT 09:40 PM (CST)
 
I'll bring one to work and weigh it. I don't think it weighs any more than the OS Max III .15 I had at one time.

I'm also wondering if these things aren't the same as RJL's (MECOA) .15. Or the Magnum .15XL (I think the latter is heavier, though).

LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-03 AT 09:15 AM (CST)
 
The LA series is available as CL (LA-S) in the .15, .25, .40 and .46 sizes from Tower Hobbies.

> The LA series is available as CL (LA-S) in the .15, .25,
>.40 and .46 sizes from Tower Hobbies.
>
> George

http://www.towerhobbies.com , part number TL3784.

>Im haven't seen a os .15 right off any shelf Steve. Are you
>saying to get a rc motor, then get a venturi?

YEP...I make Venturi's

Scott

LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-03 AT 05:06 AM (CST)
 
I have a Tom Cat Kit myself. It appears that it will build fairly light. I will fly mine with a steel fin Fox .15. If I did not have any older (lower powered) .15's, I'd look at a modern .09 or .10. I think that a modern .15 will be too much engine for this rather small plane......to much power and, especially, too much weight up front.

Agree with OS. The LA or FP .15s are too heavy for this design. Better a modern .10, which could be the aforementioned OSes.

I also like any of the old Fox 15 line also on this plane, Steel Fin center or offset plug, or the monoblock version.

Old, 60s or 70s style OS Max 15 II or III models, or Enyas are good here too, although they are a little heavier than the Fox.

If you have a Greenhead K & B 15, try it, too.

...Old, 60s or 70s style OS Max 15 II or III models...

Currell, any reason for excluding the MAX-I .15? I had one and it ran well.

>I am going to put a .15 motor on a Dave Pratt Tom Cat. What
>out there would be a good over all engine. Is the Cox .15
>motor any good. Only know about the .049. OS,FOX,Enya? What
>one would you use? and why:D

Greg, I have one with a Paw.09 for power. The model builds light
and I had to add tail weight. I now consider the Tom-Cat to be best
served with a .049-.061 engine...In otherwords: Please don't
stick a .15 engine in a 1/2A sized airplane. I Just found my old
Tom-Cat plans, this wing only has 195sq" of wing area.
I recommend You use a PAW .061 diesel, Or if you can keep the
weight under 8 ozs, use a PAW .049 diesel for power. If you want to
use a glow engine, I think a Cox Medallion .09 would also work well
because it is light enough and has a perfect power delivery...much
better than the higher performance TD or Norvell whatevers...
Tony

Tony:

How about using the MP-Jet .061 diesel from Carlson Engine Imports instead of the PAW?

I can supply new, CL ready(includes venturi and NVA), Thunder Tiger .10 and .15 for 50$. The NVA is in the venturi , not on the backplate as is the OS. The OS is a good engine also. Fox 15 slant would fly it fine too for the standard trade price of 20$. Parts are tuff for the Fox tho.
MM

What does the TT .15 weigh?

Afew grams heavier than a Fox slant plug. 130grams (4.8oz+-),no muff, no prop. I took a 6.5by4.5 prop off of it. This is a Florida 15 combat engine. A Fox tall back 15 and a strong Slant plug 15 on 25% fuel runs about the same. The tall back pulls more prop, (7x4) MM

>Tony:
>
>How about using the MP-Jet .061 diesel from Carlson Engine
>Imports instead of the PAW?

Hi Phantom...I thought of that engine as my first choice, until I
checked the Tom-Cat plans and discovered it had a 195sq" wing.
The model that I built from the T-C kit,I modified the wing,
increasing the span(longer tips), and added a stationary flap that
brought the wing up to 260sq"'s. The MP-Jet .061 diesel will fly a

model in the 260-280sq" range...the stock T-C is only 195sq".....
by the way, the 1/2A Stork also has a 195sq" wing. Bare's Stork
flew absolutely great with a Cox .049 Medallion....and lousy with
a PAW.049Tbr... This, because the PAW required more tail weight to
keep the CG where it belonged, thereby rendering the Stork with an
Elephantine wing loading...Interesting.....
Tony..Your friendly diesel Maniac

Assuming I,m going with the A.S.P. .12 motor what size and line length would I want to start with?

>Assuming I,m going with the A.S.P. .12 motor what size and
>line length would I want to start with?

Greg, You may want to start with 3/4oz of lead in the tail.
then 40-55' x.012" stranded should be fine.
Tony G

Tony, the web site shooting a line says from a .09 -.15 50-60foot lines and .008 lines. never used or seen these lines. How about .010 and 60' length lines?

LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-03 AT 06:23 PM (CST)
 
Greg,

I don't quite understand your question here. The AMA rule book says that one should use .012" of 25' to 70' lines for engines of .051 in³ to .1525 in³ displacement. One can use .008" lines for .001 in³ to .01525 in³ if those lines are solids. Be careful to note the distinction.

First I've heard of this kit - more details please!

Tony

>First I've heard of this kit - more details please!
>
>Tony

Hi Tony E, Tony G here...the Tom-Cat was one of a series of three
sizes of jet styled profile sport/stunt trainers. The T-C was the
the second step up in size from a tiny model called aptly:
the Tom-Kitty..I forgot what the B/C version was named. The T-C
has a 30" wing span, 195sq" Area, tapered L.E, straight built up
TE(1/16"sht), a 7.5" root, 5.5"tip, 1/4"sq LE and 3/16"sq spars
at highpoint. this makes for a very light wing. The Fuselage is
3/8" sht; length(nose to end of swept fin) is 24". The fin,stab and
elevator are 3/32" sht. These specs suggest a very light model will
be the result. If the engine weight can be held to 2.5oz's or less
I think it would weigh under 8.5oz's The model I built, has a
PAW 1.49cc(Contest,plain bearing)mounted, which is a 4.6oz porker
that required 1/2 tail weight to get the CG in a proper position.
It's still a bit fwd of optimum but I couldn't stand adding more
weight. As I said in prior post, the design is really best
considered an .049-.061cu" model.
The Tom-Cat series was designed by Dave Platt and was kitted by Dave
Platt Models. it is kit# CL-2 and may have been designed in the
late sixties or early seventies. the plans show .09 and .15
engine installation schemes. I cannot find the kit box, which has
drawings of the Cat series...the B/C version may have flaps.
I think You may now be weary of this post so I'll end here.. If
You have additional questions, just email me off post, I'll be
glad to add more... Tony G

Dave Platt or Dave Pratt????

>Dave Platt or Dave Pratt????
I believe it's Platt my mistake, ooops

Dave Platt - now that's a different matter - he designed many famous models in the UK- including the KK Spectre.

Tony

LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-03 AT 12:01 PM (CST)
 
Tony

Wasn't he one of the group who built the models used in the movie The Battle of Britain?

Platt lives about a 1/2 mile from me. If anyone needs his contact info send me a private note. I won't post it publicly without his permission, although I'm sure he doesn't mind.

George: The OS .15-I is a great choice, too. Currell

LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-03 AT 04:02 AM (CST)
 
>George: The OS .15-I is a great choice, too. Currell

Some may have missed my point about this model...
It is the same size and weight as a 1/2A Stork, would You put a
.15 engine in a 1/2A Stork?...
Tony

Don't have a GS Stork...but my two GS Spitfires have BigMig .049 and TeeDee .049 w/DDD head, respectively.
If it has 1/4" fuselage and 1/16" tail surfaces I would put nothing larger than an old .09 such as a Cub or OS Pet.

I ordered a asp .12 motor for this plane from just engines, and a 3 ounce profile uniflow tank from Brodak. I have not been able to find any .014 braided cable line. I thought I would start out with 60' and work my way down. RSM, Brodak and Toms Morris don't carry .014 braided lines. Only solids for that size. What and what site should I go to?

LAST EDITED ON Nov-24-03 AT 05:28 PM (CST)
 
Greg,

Here we go again!

Go check out the specified line sizes per the AMA Rule Book by following these directions. You'll need a .pdf file reader (Adobe Acrobat Reader is free at the web link shown if you don't have one.) to open the Control Line Aerobatics page.

1. Go to:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/compreg.asp

2. Click on the link for: Control Line Aerobatics (part3) The "(part3)" is the actual link.

3. Go to the bottom of page 50, which is the first page you'll open.

There you'll find a line size chart. As you will see, the minimum line size for .051 in³ to .1525 in³ displacement is .012" for two stranded lines. While it's true that it appears that Tom Morris doesn't do .012 stranded, it's also true that both RSM and Brodak do sell lines in that size. No one I know of sells .014 stranded lines, but there is really no use for them.

I know that your .014" solids will work, but .012" stranded lines, probably between 52' and 60' will work much better and require a great deal less care in their use. If you use the solids you have, you may find a bit shorter length, say 50' to 52' to be a better length.

I see that you're from Donald, Oregon. If I remember correctly from my Willamette U. days, Donald is slightly less than half way from Portland to Salem. There are a number of experienced CL flyers near you. I know that Scott Riese is in Portland and Bruce Hunt is in Salem. Both have their email addresses in their user profiles at this forum. Get a message to either or both, get together, and LISTEN to what they have to say. Doing so will make your learning curve a lot steeper, and you won't feel like you're all alone out there!

Incidentally - the printed catalog (as I stated above) says that the .15 and the .12 weigh about the same. Don't know why there's a discrepancy on the web site. The .12 does cost less, though.

thought I would show where I first saw some info on the line size. I think the link here will show the size I thought would be ok. I can't remember who it was that wanted this. but it was for a correction to the chart that is not correct. 0.09-0.15 cu in. 0.008
Shooting a Line http://www.iroquois.free-online.co.uk/linecare.htm
I did get the braided 0.012 lines for a ASP .12 motor. As of right now the lenghth is 58.5" eyelet to eyelet. I will shorten them after I see how she flys.

Greg,

It appears that the author of this chart has mixed solid (single strand) line sizes for the 0.060 in³ to 0.150 in³ with the more common multi-stranded lines in his offering. Hopefully, you've now found the AMA chart with the required sizes listed and are using it to determine line diameter. One should definitely not use 0.008" diameter multi-stranded lines for engines in this size range.