Pics of pipe tunnels.....

Here is something you don't see often. I was wondering if some guys can post some pics of the bottoms of their pipe ships? I'm currently building an SV-22 and would like some ideas in this regard. I'll post some pics as soon as I get the cowl done. Sanding right now.....Thanks.

Duck,

Man, Bruce better watch out.

Yeah me too.
I am building my first piped ship, a Vector, and am working on the cowling and pipe tunnel right now. I would like to see how some of you have done the rear pipe mount/saddle.
Rob, I am looking forward to seeing the new ships you and the others in your club are building. What engine are you putting in the SV22?
Regards,

Hello Monty are you scratch building another Vector and what are you putting in for a piped motor?
Dennis

LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-03 AT 01:13 AM (CST)
 
Hi Monty, been a while eh, Prairie Fire. I've got a brand new OS 46 vf with a one of Randy's new pipes for it. Wing, tail, fin all done. Just sanding the fuse now, getting the blocks hollowed out and the rear turtle deck molded. There will be lots of new birds out this next year as everyone has something new going. Bruce has a new Merlin on the way, Neil has a new full fuse yellow jacket and Brodak nobler ongoing, Allanna has a top-flite nobler ready with a smoothie coming too. Should be fun next year here in Edmonton....

Dennis,
Yes I am building another Vector but it is the original 630" design as opposed to Vector 40 that I had built before. I am putting a VF-40 in it. I found the VF-40's here, one was used, one was new. All I had to do was ask around among the RC crowd to find them.
I had the Vector wing built and was planning to use a 46LA in it when I came across the VF-40. It is a wider engine than this plane was designed for so I had to widen the fuse and deepen the cowl a bit to fit the header and pipe in. I am also adding a bit of area to the vertical fin as per the designers advice.
Regards,

LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-03 AT 02:18 AM (CST)
 
I have this scratch built Vector 40 halfway done.

The wing came ou pretty decently straight, stab and elvator are done.

I'm planning to power it witn an OS .25 VF with a pipe I got from Jerry.

I'm also trying to figure out how to tuck the pie in the fuse.

I finished an "Eliminator", and the pipe just hangs under the fuse, "out in the breeze".

I figure I'll have to give the Vector some more "belly".

It's like that song goes, "This is my first affair, so what goes where?"..

Bless ya!

Ion

PS.
So far, no pics!!!!

Here are two pictures of the Pipe Tunnel on my Katana. It is identical to what the plans show, and the SV-22 is exactly the same on the bottom. One thing that is important is to make sure nothing touches the pipe once it is in place - this includes the landing gear and the high point of the wing.

Regarding the cowling, a SMALL opening right at the pipe coupler is all that is required on the bottom. Let the air run out the pipe tunnel opening.

Hope these pics help.

Thanks Curt, I have the same thing going,(pipe tunnel). Randy's plans are very good. This has been the nicest and easiest airplane to build. I'm still sanding....

>I have this scratch built Vector 40 halfway done.
The wing came out pretty decently straight,
>stab and elvator are done.
>
>I'm planning to power it witn an OS .25 VF with a pipe I got
>from Jerry. I'm also trying to figure out how to tuck the
>pie in the fuse.

Actually, Ion, I would suggest putting the pipe in there instead. But if you insist on using a pie, my personal favorite is Pumpkin.

>I finished an "Eliminator", and the pipe just hangs under
>the fuse, "out in the breeze".
I figure I'll have to give the Vector some more "belly".
>
>It's like that song goes, "This is my first affair, so what
>goes where?"..
>
>Bless ya!
>
>Ion

An easy way to lengthen the depth of the belly, if you have already cut your fuselage sides or have in under construction, is to mold a rounded bottom for the fuselage and then cut it out for the pipe. That is what Matt did on this one (although he designed it that way).

>>I have this scratch built Vector 40 halfway done.
>The wing came out pretty decently straight,
>>stab and elvator are done.
>>
>>I'm planning to power it witn an OS .25 VF with a pipe I got
>>from Jerry. I'm also trying to figure out how to tuck the
>>pipe in the fuse.
>
>Actually, Ion, I would suggest putting the pipe in there
>instead. But if you insist on using a pie, my personal
>favorite is Pumpkin.
>

Well, Len,

I remeber I gave you "carte blanche" to have fun at my expense, so it's OK...

Just dont stretch your luck, or...

you might get this fine, rare kit on you mailbox...

It's a special design called "rattlesnake"!

How was Thanksgiving?

Having lived in the US I know what it means to you Americans.

I also prefer the pumkin pipe....

God bless!

LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-03 AT 06:37 PM (CST)
 
Here are two more pictures of tunnels on Matt's plans. The first is of the present ship with the gear attached, the second is with the new ship and the gear removed. You can notice slight differences. The bottom on both is molded, then cut out around the pipe. The pipe is made to come out forward, still attached to the engine, but can do so only when the gear is removed. Some cooling air exits the coweling. Most of it exits the pipe tunnel.

>I have this scratch built Vector 40 halfway done....
>
>I'm also trying to figure out how to tuck the pie in the
>fuse...
>
>I figure I'll have to give the Vector some more "belly"...
>
>
>Ion
>

Installing a pipe on the Vector 40 will require a re-work of the entire fuse, including the landing gear. There is only 5/8" of fuse below the high point of the wing, and no clearance at all under the gear. By adding a belly on the fuse, lowering the gear, and then adding a pipe, header, coupler, and rear mount, you will be changing the vertical center of gravity.

Any gain you you think you may get from the chosen power train will be offset by the modifications to the design that you will not be able to trim out. I suggest you build the model per the plans and power it accordingly.

I hera you, Curt!

If I see it's gonna be impossibel I can use my good ol' OS.32 F.

With a 10 X 4 APC launching at 10 G it's as good as a piped .25.

Thanks for the advice.

BTW, them plans sure are neat, and that wing was a cinch to build with that 1/8" spar!

Bless ya!

>>I have this scratch built Vector 40 halfway done....
>>
>>I'm also trying to figure out how to tuck the pie in the
>>fuse...
>>
>>I figure I'll have to give the Vector some more "belly"...
>>
>>
>>Ion
>>
>
>Installing a pipe on the Vector 40 will require a re-work of
>the entire fuse, including the landing gear. There is only
>5/8" of fuse below the high point of the wing, and no
>clearance at all under the gear. By adding a belly on the
>fuse, lowering the gear, and then adding a pipe, header,
>coupler, and rear mount, you will be changing the vertical
>center of gravity.
>
>Any gain you you think you may get from the chosen power
>train will be offset by the modifications to the design that
>you will not be able to trim out. I suggest you build the
>model per the plans and power it accordingly.
>
>Curt

This could be true and not true at the same time. In 1996 I built a Buccaneer 746 with an OPS 40. It had about the same space as you say this one has. The added power train really made that pup work.

Here is what I did so not change a thing on the design of the plane.

I installed the gear right up to the bottom of the wing. So I did not lower teh gear. The gear and wheels and pants are alot heavier than the pipe so moving them will cause issues, if you go down with them. I just used slightly larger wheels to make up the .5" difference after moving the up just a tiny bit. Then I simply added 1/8" balsa down the along the bottom of each fuse side the length of the tunnel needed. Then I built in a pipe floor per normal. Then I lowered the intake of the cowel just a bit to get a better flow into the new tunnel. Then I built a tunnel all the way down the belly fully enclosing the pipe. The exit hole was 5 times as large as the entrance at the cowl. The only real difference here was a deeper fuse along the nose and the belly. It will have no real effect on the perfomance of the plane. The VCG was not effected and the plane flew way better.

I also like to build my pipe tunnels fully enclosed. Only an opening at the front and rear of the plane and a spot for the battery. I have found it to have much more even cooling effect on the pipe. I also think it looks better closed in with a nice molded bottom.

You can add a piped motor to the Vector 40 as long as you dont make it a 60. The design is very capable and should handle a 40 sized pipe and tunnel below the wing. I built a Buccaneer 740 just recenly and did this very thing to it with a 32sx and a 40 sized pipe and it really flew good. The extra tunnel had no ill effect on the plane and the motor combo really inproved the performance.

Dondi Garrison flew a pipe on a smaller SV design and it was very competitive!

From Doug's post #18 and chopped a bunch

>I installed the gear right up to the bottom of the wing. So
>I did not lower teh gear. The gear and wheels and pants are
>alot heavier than the pipe so moving them will cause issues,
>if you go down with them.

Good suggestion. That is nearly where it is on the plans.

>
>You can add a piped motor to the Vector 40 as long as you
>dont make it a 60. The design is very capable and should
>handle a 40 sized pipe and tunnel below the wing. I

After thinking this thing over for a day, I still think it is good advice to power any model one is constructing according to the designer’s recommendations. That is not to say I have not flown a Super Tigre G21 .40 Voodoo or a Fox 29xRR Ringmaster in my day.

The best answer to questions like these will be the ones that address the builder’s ultimate intent for the model. If the intent is to purely do something different, then we should advise the person to have fun with the project providing it will not cause any potential danger.

If a flier intends to be competitive, and if the intent is to improve a model’s performance by trying something they believe has not been done in order to gain an advantage, it is best to advise the individual against making such a departure from the norm. When a competitor decides to develop their own program, it can set them back 2-3 years.

>Dondi Garrison flew a pipe on a smaller SV design and it was
>very competitive!

Dondi was used as an example of one who campaigned for years with a Piped Thunder Tiger .36 powered Vector 40. Yes, he did very well with this model, but it was a Junior. I competed with Dondi, and although he was very successful with his Vector, it was with the SV models that came after it that he became a real threat and then flew for the team with.

My final thoughts are that it was only a few years ago when I would change things attempting to gain an advantage. When I stopped, I quickly advanced.

There is no right answer for everyone,

Curt

So having said all that, I must admit that I see a piped ’68 G. Nobler in my future. Go figure.

Again the right answer is in the heart of the builder, unless he really does want our advise.

>My final thoughts are that it was only a few years ago when
>I would change things attempting to gain an advantage. When
>I stopped, I quickly advanced.
>

Curt,

You said a mouthfull there! I have been building the Bear's models for some time now. I have been following his reccomendations to the T. All have resulted in excellent flying models. In fall of 01 I got all "I can make a change or two and it will be killer" I forged ahead and it flew like poop. After just a few flights I knew it wasnt the "ONE" I rushed home to the shop in Jan 02 and started the model that took me to the top 5 in 02, an EXACT copy of the Bear's current model at that time. Those guys REALLY do know what they are talking about.

I am designing my own rig right now. It does have alot of outside influence so I am hoping for good results.

You are so correct about how there is really no right answer.

Maybe just go with the model as shown on the plans. Power with a standard side exhaust as shown. Then compete and fly it for the next season. At the end plan on your next plane to be a piped designed model. Start the new one and retrofit your current plane with the piped motor. Having it external can be beneficial when learning to operate the system. Just a suggestion. That is one of the cool things in modeling. You can do what ever the heck you want.

Make your life easy. Make the tunel inside with full turtle back and do only hole afterwards in size exactly necessary for pipe inserting.

Cutting is easier than thinking

Curt,
I may well have the same veritcal cg problem with the full size Vector as well. Must admit I hadn't thought about it but since I am all but done the plane except for finishing I will press on and see what happens. I have left the gear in the same position but formed a depression ito it to clear the pipe. The pictures of the pipe tunnel are helpfull. I didn't realize there was a step in the fuse just aft of the pipe. I am going to to the same on the Vector.
I couldn't tell for sure from the picture how the pipe is attached to the rear saddle. Is it done with a nylon tie?

Igor,
Your plane is such a clean design. If that is a LA46 with a side to rear header, could you show us a closeup of the header and pipe?

Regards

LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-03 AT 00:51 AM (CST)
 
Did you notice this one in EricV's thread about the Argentine stunters? I thought it not only looked pretty good, it looks effective. If your vertical CG is off, you should be able to check it before finishing and make a correction by moving the leadouts downward on the tip. Steve

[photo not recovered: 3fc6c31e259966a0.jpg]

It is difficult to make shot inside the model. But if you have original Os Max manifold for LA .46 (the same like for old FP engines) and if you put engine to 45 deg position like it is in my fuselage, you will se the pipe and the manifold is inline in middle of fuselage (sidewise) and it nice fits under the wing.

The rubber join is visible in first shot of previous message.

I do not mount rubber join in model. I make it outside. Whole combo pipe, join, manifold is possible to insert via the back hole and you can mount it by two screws to the engine like you can see on following picture.

The only real problem is, that if you want dismount engine, you must dismount the pipe, the tank, and only then you can get with flexible hex-screwdriver to backplate screws fixing also engine, but in reality I never dismounted engine (I have 2 such models now).

Snipped a bunch...

"Bruce has a new Merlin on the way, Neil has a new full fuse yellow jacket and Brodak nobler ongoing, Allanna has a top-flite nobler ready with a smoothie coming too. Should be fun next year here in Edmonton...."

Rob Duckering....MAAC #14457

Rob,

Please give our best to Allanna (sic?) but do caution her against depending upon Bruce for a charged, ready-to-use glow battery. And to not place paper towels in front of the model while starting.

Hi Dan, Come to think of it, I don't recall Bruce carrying a paper towel in his pocket the rest of the year.... Bruce keeps threatening to get Allanna her own field box. Maybe it will come with its own glow-drivers....Christmas is coming....