1959 NATS Open Winner Thunderbird II

This got passed over in the post on the 1960 USA WC team, so.....
I need some good detail pics of Bob Palmer's T-Bird in the orange and black scheme. I saw it in the AMA Museum Hobby Shop up in the rafters. I didn't do the paint scheme correctly the first time, and since it is slated for a tear down and rebuild, I want to get it right this time. I already have the Stuka and Argus, along with the beginnings of Mr. Grondal's "Nobler".
Reference pics of the Thunderbird II Open winner, please! (??)
TIA
Bill Little <><

It is on the cover either or a MAN or FM of that era. Currell

Thanks, Currell!
Does anyone happen to have that magazine they can scan?
Thanks!
Bill <><

LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-03 AT 09:08 AM (CST)
 
Bill - Does this help? .. I'm getting a series of photos of the 1st WC's from Brian Horrocks, and this is cropped from one of them. The full photo, and others, will be on the website some time soon when I have them all together.

EDIT: Added the team pic from the other thread.

Hi Ken,
Thanks a lot!
Two questions.
1. The addy for the website?
2. Can you email that pic full size?
3. Can you also email me a full size side view? (well it was three
questions! LOL!!)

Thanks!
Bill <><

LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-03 AT 08:46 AM (CST)
 
>Three questions. Two answers

>1. The addy for the website? www.vicstunt.com
>2. Can you email that pic full size? Yes, on its way
>3. Can you also email me a full size side view? Don't have one yet, but will if I get one

I have bought and sold so many mag collections over the last 3 or 4 years. I never bothered to keep a complete collection for myself. I sort of keep a representative sample, so I can check out ads, etc. Of course, you try to keep the truly "historic" issues, such as GMA's original Nobler articles (two issues).

>Bill - Does this help? .. I'm getting a series of photos of
>the 1st WC's from Brian Horrocks, and this is cropped from
>one of them. The full photo, and others, will be on the
>website some time soon when I have them all together.
>
>EDIT: Added the team pic from the other thread.

The airplane that Bob Palmer flew at the 1959 Nats was painted very differently from the one in the photo at the World's. In fact, the 1959 ship was Bob's Thunderbird II with a bigger wing and generally an evolution of the one in the World's photo.

>
>The airplane that Bob Palmer flew at the 1959 Nats was
>painted very differently from the one in the photo at the
>World's. In fact, the 1959 ship was Bob's Thunderbird II
>with a bigger wing and generally an evolution of the one in
>the World's photo.

Hi Bill,
I am confused. I knew that the two planes were different, especially in the paint schemes. But the WC was in 1960, and you say the '59 T-Bird II was an evolution of the '60 WC plane. (??)
So...... which came first..... the '59 T-Bird II or the '60 WC plane?
And I wonder why he would fly the "old" plane at the WC if the '59 was an evolution of it. Not disputing you, or being argumentative, just very interested in these planes.
Thanks!
Bill <><
P.S. The more I look at the 56" Skylark, the more impressed I am.

>>
>>The airplane that Bob Palmer flew at the 1959 Nats was
>>painted very differently from the one in the photo at the
>>World's. In fact, the 1959 ship was Bob's Thunderbird II
>>with a bigger wing and generally an evolution of the one in
>>the World's photo.
>
>Hi Bill,
>I am confused. I knew that the two planes were different,
>especially in the paint schemes. But the WC was in 1960,
>and you say the '59 T-Bird II was an evolution of the '60 WC
>plane. (??)
>So...... which came first..... the '59 T-Bird II or the '60
>WC plane?
>And I wonder why he would fly the "old" plane at the WC if
>the '59 was an evolution of it. Not disputing you, or being
>argumentative, just very interested in these planes.
>Thanks!
>Bill <><
>P.S. The more I look at the 56" Skylark, the more impressed
>I am.

Hi Bill,

That's what happens when I try to type after spending all day pounding on the keyboard for work. The '60 World's ship was an evolution of the '59 Nats ship. As noted elsewhere in the thread the color scheme on the '59 Nats ship was quite different.

Thanks Bill. I know how that goes.
Bill

The '59 T-Bird is the one in the Veco ads. Palmer told me it was red with white and blue blazes (on both the top and bottom). The lettering is outlined in black. It appeared on the cover of the Aug-Sep 1960 issue of Flying Models (see image). In this photo it appears orange. I painted my T-Bird per Palmer's instructions. Here's a photo of it at VSC 14 with Palmer's Skyscraper restored by Ray Firkins. If this is the one you want to replicate, e-mail me. I have lots of documentation--letters from Palmer, etc. I also have some Veco and AMA decals left.

Seems as though the 59 Nats and the 60 Worlds were two different models.

LAST EDITED ON Dec-08-03 AT 09:05 PM (CST)
 
I read an interview with Bob Palmer and in it he stated that they used jigs and could put out a plane pretty quick. I believe this was when he worked for Veco, but don't kow if he used them on his later planes after he left Veco. It is also quite common today, as we are finding out, that the plane at the Nats is very seldom the same one at the World Champs. It's enough to make a "historian" cry.

It would be very interesting (and probably humbling) to know just how many T'Birds Bob built.