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Mental Block on wingover.

Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 9 of 9 known posts recovered

Scott Correa · Aug 14, 2001 05:31 PM

#0 source
Ok guys.
I can pull up 90, go over the top but I just can't
bang it 90 down and go inverted. I wimp out and
make a GIANT corner and finally get close to the ground
inverted. Inverted feels ok, but I just can't pull
the trigger on a hard outside corner.
Who has a sequence of moves to get me comfy with
tight outside stuff........

Thanks.
SCOTT

Jake · Aug 14, 2001 06:21 PM

#1 source
LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-01 AT 08:06 PM (EST)


The only thing I can tell you is fly more until you are comfortable with it. No two humans react the same, and what works for me, won't necessarily for you. I just don't worry about it, ignore the airplane, pick a pull -out point in space ahead of the ship (you HAVE to stay ahead of the airplane, always), and fly it around that point when it is time. Eventually you aren't even aware of doing it, it becomes automatic. You are still too worried about crashing if you have this problem; it is the subconscious fear that causes your reaction. The only cure is more flying and trying. I am sure the PA guys will laugh at me on this, but that is what I learned from full-size fighter pilots and a great C/L Stunt master.


I would add one more thought: KNOW the turn radius of the aircraft you are flying by heart. In other words, don't pull it at 16 feet off the deck if your ship needs 17 or 18 to cut that corner... FLY your airplane a whole bunch more and get comfortable with it. Accept the fact you just MIGHT crash, and lose it all, it CAN happen. You HAVE to do this, otherwise as long as your subconscious mind is afraid of losing, you will never progress.

Best of fortune to you!

JAK

TigreST · Aug 14, 2001 08:29 PM

RE: Mental Block : Reverse Pychology?#2 source
Scott,
Not having flown one of my own in over two years I'm in way better shape then most to speak on this topic, ..NOT! But that's beside the point. Here's an idea: 1) You know the aircraft will a) go inverted, b) track through the wing over, and c) come out of inverted with the completion of the "outside" half loop maneuver. But you need to convince yourself of these facts right? There was a mental block for me to be convinced that the airplane, having done half of everything, could in fact do the front half, or the back half of the rest of a maneuver when asked not to do the whole thing. Did that make sense?

Anyway here's the pitch: During your practice flights get the aircraft inverted as you would for normal inverted flight, half inside loop to invert. Then lower you altitude to the required pull out point, for what would be your recovery from the dreaded "reverse wing over". Get nice and comfy here on your back, then just bang the most beautiful outside wing over in history! You can see the aircraft turn that corner back into wing-over, and know that it's capable of the move, .... it' just 90 degree's out of sync is all i.e.: vert to vertical when it should be vertical to vert right?

As you practice be telling yourself, "self if this was the reverse wing over pull out, * BANG*, it'd go just like that" This will help you to develop a feel and a sense of what the aircraft should be doing, and what you will be feeling as it is doing what comes natural to it. As they say at Marina Land; "These are natural behaviors that we ask the whales to do on command, they are not abnormal behaviors." Same goes for your "Stunt Whale".

Part two. Maintain this mind set: Now do the whole thing start to finish as per normal, but with a higher pull out to start, ...then work your way down. You know that it will pull out as required, ..you've already seen that it can right? ? "I put the handle "DOWN" the bird turns out of the dive, ..I easy up and there I am nicely on my back at 5 ft +/-, ...piece a cake right? Easier said then done for sure, but this may help convince you that the aircraft is capable. If it is not capable, you already know that before going here, ..and then the only block to be worked out is the square foot of dirt that the thing is now buried in. Guess it would follow that the following question needs to be answered first, "Will the aircraft pull out when required, ..no mental block in the picture?" If it will you've got her made. Let the aircraft convince you.

Tony

Jake · Aug 14, 2001 08:42 PM

RE: Mental Block : Reverse Pychology?#3 source
I guess my problem was learning to fly Combat ships; they didn't give you a whole bunch of time to get comfortable or think about much of anything. You either flew away from the ground real quick, or you were planted. These (old stuff, like VooDoos and such) models are still great trainers, if you can fly one of these, you can handle any PA ship.

JAK

Jim P · Aug 15, 2001 02:22 PM

RE: Mental Block : Reverse Pychology?#5 source
I have a tendency to pull out of the inverted portion of wingover nice and crisply but too high-maybe6-8 feet,no doubt due to terraphobia. If I do manage to hit 4-5 feet I tend to flare. In second flight of contest this past weekend, I dug in my heels determined to hold the wingover and not flare, waited, waited, and pulled it out at maybe 1 foot. Unfortunately was still slightly angled down, I was hot,exhausted,running back and forth between two circles,body was getting cramped up and I was generally totally unfocused and I managed to kiss the grass maybe 10 feet after inverted pull out. Minor damage but no score.

Background trees, etc. seem to have an infuence as I seem to be able to fly closer to 5 ft bottoms when there are no trees in my peripheral vision. Practice is, however, the key. Now if we could only get some weather that is not too hot, not too cold,not too windy, etc. I would be able to actually do some decent practice but I know this is just wishful thinking.

Ty M. · Aug 15, 2001 02:07 PM

#4 source
Scott, I know the feeling. My very first stunt was the wing over, after take off! The second was a loop, intentional and then an intentional wing over. I finally just did it. Gritted my teeth and forced my eyes to stay open. I was 13 and had absolutely no idea of what I was doing. Only one other guy my age flew any type of models. He and I were it. We crashed and rebuilt a lot. This was in 1954 and the nearest hobby shop was 98 miles away in Reno. All I can say is practice over grass and expect to pile it in a few times. Make sure your handle will allow you to go full down as easy as full up. In other words the amount of wrist movement should not be more for down as for up. You can have a good plane, but the human wrist has its limits, so make the sure the handle is helping you and not limiting the elevator throw. When you do go inverted, go now, don't hesitate and grit your teeth, keep both eyes open and don't bite your tongue. Gee, sounds just like my Dad and playing baseball. Good luck and keep us up to date. All of us that fly u/c are cheering you on. Ty M.

Bruce Hunt · Aug 15, 2001 05:09 PM

#6 source
Scott,

I assume from your post that the final pullout to level upright flight is no problem. For me this last pull out is so natural that I no longer think about it. You can verify your own arm and hand movement in the upright recovery. Do a little mental flying with your arm extended and close your eyes if it helps visualize the model in flight. For me there are two things that I notice about the maneuver:

First, it isn't a perfectly square corner. If I fly it hard and sharp because I think it should be so, it will be jerky and the recovery will be unstable (climbing, diving or both). The Maneuver is a smooth round change of direction. I like to think of it as a "turn" not a corner.

Second, if I concentrate on the corner, my mind and attention is fixed while the model proceeds until my attention is brought back to it. By this time the model is already on its back 20 feet past the corner heading somewhere other than level. If I concentrate on the turn my mind stays with the model. I turn the model until it's level and then continue to follow it.

Practice it this way: Track the imaginary model with your arm through the turn. Do this first without using your wrist or giving control input. Just track at a constant speed through a turn to level leading with your arm all the way. Once you see and feel the constant motion, add the controling wrist movement while continuing to track the model visually and with your arm.

This past weekend, while flying with Don McClave, he pointed out that I was flying past the starting point on the second wingover. As he explained, this is a common error caused by thinking of the turn as a corner starting where the first wingover began. By the time the model is vertical, it is past the original track. But if you visualize the turn, you can see that it has to start in advance of the original track. The same is true of any abrupt turn. Start it ahead of the corner then turn and recover smoothly. Practice with intentional pullouts above pattern height. The key is to turn the model intentionally to that height. See the turn! Feel the turn! Then gradually bring it down to pattern height.

Now if I can just follow what I think I understand

Bruce Hunt
Salem, OR

Nils · Aug 16, 2001 02:04 AM

#7 source
Good post Bruce! Now you have me wondering where I'm putting my corners....
I think I have my Shark sorted out again. I got my handle adjusted properly & I went to 5-29 all castor fuel. The .60 was making more power than I needed, even pulling all that weight. Still can't take the heat though. See you in Salem

Nils

Randy · Aug 17, 2001 09:19 PM

#8 source
Soctt,

A lot of it has to do with both your comfort level with the manouver and with the plane. Once you really know a plane, it's not that hard (well, not tremendously hard, anyway). YOu just need to know how the plane turns and pick your spot.

At my last contest, I brought the plane down to pull out inverted and nailed it, but it was a couple of feet too low (maybe 2 and a half feet off the pavement). The trick is to hold it there on the deck and repeat the trick on the upright pull out, not necessarily hitting the right spot. Never let 'um see you sweat.

Randy (on his way to pick up his freshly laundered undergarments)