Fox Identification

OK Guys, you need to help me ID a Fox. At an auction tonight I scored a brand new McCoy .35 and ??? Fox for $13

This is a sand cast .29-.35(no markings), the rear cover is also sand cast. The rear cover is 3 bolt and the mounting lugs are narrow with squared corners that have not been modified. The head is 4 bolt and has shallow fins that I think are original. By shallow I don't mean shaved like a speed job, just not as deep as the later diecaat ones. It also has a strange shaped chamber that curves down deeper on one side than the other, I've never seen one like it. The exhaust stack is squared off like the .29 and .36x's rather than having radiused ends. The drive washer is on a taper rather that the 4 tooth spline
drive of all the later ones.

I don't have a digital camera (yet, HO,HO,HO) and the engine is already in the crockpot getting a Saturday night bath. So, if you can help me out with the description great, otherwise I'll have it cleaned up and a picture of it in January.

Thanks,

It sounds like a sandcast .35. If it was a .29, it would have .29 stamped on the front of the exhaust stack.

Why did you not think it was a sandcast fox?

Actually, Sandcast is not what the early Fox engines were. We call them sandcasts,(because they look like it) but they were really made from a permanent mold. Duke told me that, and it's also in his autobiography.

LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-03 AT 11:08 PM (CST)
 
Hi De,

<Why did you not think it was a sandcast fox?>

Thanks. I'm not exactly sure I understand your answer. It is definitly a Fox, that was never in doubt, I just wanted to know which one. If its a .35 because its not marked that's easy enough, but didn't the "sandcast" .35 have an exhaust stack with radiused ends rather that squared off ends?

If this came out of a permenent mold I'd have fired the mold maker!

I just picked up two of my sandcast Foxes and looked at the exhausts. They are square. There is no radius either inside or outside of the exhaust stack.

I'm sorry I misunderstood your question.

LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-03 AT 00:27 AM (CST)
 
Great, thanks,

So it appears I have a common "sandcast" .35

There were no variants that you know of or is this it? Also, it's missing the needle, was it the same as the later Fox nail valve?

>It sounds like a sandcast .35. If it was a .29, it would
>have .29 stamped on the front of the exhaust stack.
>
>Why did you not think it was a sandcast fox?
>
>Actually, Sandcast is not what the early Fox engines were.
>We call them sandcasts,(because they look like it) but they
>were really made from a permanent mold. Duke told me that,
>and it's also in his autobiography.

HAY Bud,

Where can I get Duke's autobiography?

Scott(just would like to read it)Riese

Hi Scott,

Try: http://home.att.net/~philbrown36641s5/foxbio2.pdf for Duke's autobiography.

Thanks for the link to the site on the workings of the many types of engines; very interesting!

>Where can I get Duke's autobiography?

You might also like:

http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/

It has biographies of some remarkable craftsman, some more objective than others.

>OK Guys, you need to help me ID a Fox. At an auction tonight
>I scored a brand new McCoy .35 and ??? Fox for $13
>

Dang! What auction was that? Sorry I missed it!

LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-03 AT 11:09 PM (CST)
 
Andy,

I'm not sorry you missed it!!

There's an auction right down the street from you in Plymouth almost every Saturday night. So far I've scored these 2 today, a brand new McCoy .098, and a big box of 2 1/4" wheels, 127 of then to be exact. And a plastic bag full of old accessories like an old Perfect fuel can pump, some 1/2A props and bits of and old 1/2A ukie etc.. Oh yeah, a Stewart Warner floor model radio!

Grand total: 35 bucks US!

>Andy,
>
>I'm not sorry you missed it!!
>
>There's an auction right down the street from you in
>Plymouth almost every Saturday night. So far I've scored
>these 2 today, a brand new McCoy .098, and a big box of 2
>1/4" wheels, 127 of then to be exact. And a plastic bag full
>of old accessories like an old Perfect fuel can pump, some
>1/2A props and bits of and old 1/2A ukie etc..

I take it these must be estate liquidation auctions? Let me know next time you plan to go, I might tag along. Anyway, the fact that you got all that cool stuff is fine--I can just rob you at gunpoint, and I know where you live .

Merry Christmas!

Randy: One of the variations on Sandcasts is the thickness of the head. The earlier ones, on the two bolt backplate models, have this. I cannot say for sure that the head thickness changed exactly when they went to a three bolt backplate, however.

Apparently, Fox had some warpage issues with the thin ones, although I never had a problem.

On the swap circuit, you see these mixed and matched. For example, you will see the thick one on two bolt motors, and thin ones on three bolts.

LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-03 AT 09:59 AM (CST)
 
Currell,

What about the nail valve, is it the same as the later ones?

Hi Randy. Still waiting to come to good ole Blighty?
I think your Fox is what is known as the "Second Model", the first being the 2 bolt b/plate. Not sure what you mean by Nail Valve. Mine has a wire needle, bent into a T at the end, by bending to a rt. angle, then bending back on itself.
I wouldn't call it too common, you have a nice desirable 2nd. model Fox 35, perfect for a suitable vintage model.

Hi Ian,

For the rime being it looks like the trip is off, but there will be other opportunities eventually.

Thanks for the help on the Fox. I've been cooking it and finally kicked it up on high. Th head is so caked with burnt castor
its taking allot to get it clean. The engine on the whole is pretty nice and so far the only dammage I've found is a round imprint on the back of the cylinder where it looks like it was crashed on a profile model and the tank pickup tube was driven into it.

The Fox nail valve is supposed to be a humorous term refering to the needles with the flat ground on the side instead of a point. Years ago we called them nail valves. This engine has the ratched spring on it like the later ones. Does your T needle has the knurl on it?

Randy, yes it has a knurl, and a nice pointy end with no flat. Regards,

You have an early Fox .29, but it is not sand-cast.
The only sand-cast Fox engines I have ever seen were the proto .59 in the AMA Museum and the rear exhaust specials that came out in the 80s, from memory.
Until they changed to pressure die-casting, all Fox 29/35 engines were gravity die-cast.
This process is referred to as permanent-mold in the US.
regards

>You have an early Fox .29, but it is not sand-cast.
>The only sand-cast Fox engines I have ever seen were the
>proto .59 in the AMA Museum and the rear exhaust specials
>that came out in the 80s, from memory.
>Until they changed to pressure die-casting, all Fox 29/35
>engines were gravity die-cast.
>This process is referred to as permanent-mold in the US.
>regards

The rear exhaust special was a 36 supposedly based on a R&F motor project that didn't work out. Duke bought it according to his bio and tried to recoup his cash.
That said at $59.95 they really topped the list of crappy motors that Fox made over the years.It reminded me of a first generation Fox 35 no fins, crummy casting work and terrible running and idleing capabilities. The muffler was a Fox tank modified to fit over the rear flange where a pipe was supposed to go. It was held on by one puny allen set screw that was guarenteed to slip or strip out when tightened.
Yes I know this is a fox bash, but in this case it really is in order.
Dennis