ST 51

I'm not long back from a most enjoyable day at the field today for the club Christmas party. It was warm, humidity about 70% and overcast; my bride is very worried about my red face.

However, there was a deal of discussion at the field of ST engines--51s in particular as there were several venerable examples at work. The conversation turned to the new Chinese-made ST 51 stunt engine.

Is there anyone with real experience of this recent release who would like to offer comment?

As a serious stunt engine, the price is right and it's available. Is the product up to the task?

Thanks in advance

Geoff,
I am running the Italian made version, but I have a new "Chinese" one.
Tom Lay said the sleeve for the C/L version is timed right, and different from the R/C sleeve. So I would believe that it will run just like my "old" Italian "Square head" ones.
Appears to be a pretty identical copy of the early '90s one, but not sure if I will like the NVA through the venturi instead of the case, but that probably won't matter.
Bill <><

I pulled mine out last night and took a look at it. The box says the parts are made in Italy and China and it's assembled in China. The engine still looks like a typical Garofali engine: heavy but well made. I think it looks good and will probably buy another.

I just got a Time Machine from Tom Dixon and was debating whether to try the ST.51 or go with my OS .52 four stroke.

Disclaimer: Everything above, except I am a rocket scientist, but not an Advanced CLPA pilot. I'm just an old pilot who has come back to his first love (control line).

Ron King

Hi Ron,
Which size TM is it? There are several TM's of all sizes around here (SE US) most of which are powered by Double Stars. I have found that the ST 51 is a bit stronger than the DS 50, and maybe close to equal with the DS 60 Lite. The DS's that I see flying around here run good, but don't seem to have as much punch as the ST 51. Wish I could compare it to the 4 stroke but, alas, I have none. The ST 51 would be plenty for a Time Machine 50. Probably a TM 60, too!
I was___ once a column writer!
Bill <><

I picked up the full size Time Machine - which makes it a 10-percent discounted Patternmaster!

Tom shows a design weight under 60 ounces, so I know the OS .52 will be plenty and I don't have too many doubts about the ST .51.

It's a dirt-simple design, but I'm sure it can fly a better stunt pattern than me.

Ron King

To be honest, I have not seen a "bad" flying TM yet, in any of the sizes. Sir Thomas of Luper flies a 60 TM in Expert, and does extremely well with it. He won the KOI last year with it.
Seems to be an easy to fly/trim
Several of the guys I fly contests with have them.
I compare the TM 60 with an SV-11, size wise, and the SV-11 I had flew a lot better than I did. And it was 64 oz. with the T&L St51.
Have fun!
Bill <><

Ron,

The Tiger 51 should do fine on a TM 60. A buddy of mine here had a stock tigre 51 on his 60 ounce Magnum and it worked great. The plane pulled harder than some ST 60 engined planes. The TM is a bit smaller than a magnum, with a thicker wing, so it should be a wash. Saito 56 works good in a time machine 60, I'm not sure how an OS or magnum four stroke would work...

Steve

PS, by the way Bill, they finally were able to get the internet back up in our mangled house.!!! Four months after the hurricane(!)

Hey Buddy! Glad to hear that things are finally starting to return to "normal".
Bill <><

Thanks. I have also seen several Magnums with ST .51 power and they also seem to fly very well.

I agree about the Saito, but I put the only .56 I have on a Legacy already. I read about the OS .52 exploits of Doug Moon and Godzilla and think that engine would easily haul a 60 ounce airplane. My OS .52 seems to vibrate a lot more than the Saito - or the ST, so I still haven't decided if I will try it yet.

Since this thread was originally focused on the ST .51, I'll probably give it a try. The front end of the Time Machine is very roomy, so it looks like I could do some engine swapping in the future - if the airframe lasts that long

Disclaimer: Except for my computer systems, my satellites, and my full size airplane - I do not profess to be an expert at anything. This is my hobby and I'm having a great time in my old age.

Ron King

LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-03 AT 03:33 PM (CST)
 
I have D.Dirt's old ST G.51 with reworked sleeve timing, and I'm thinking that I might like to put a stock stunt cylinder in it. Would also probably pop for a new piston, rod and wristpin. Have Bowman rings for it. The original sleeve was revised per GMA instructions, and frankly, I've always wanted to put my DS .60bb in the Mutant Magnum (aka Dixon's Magnum Plus). In other words, I like the ST G.51, but wish it had more *torque*. Any bets on whether the Chinese parts would fit the Italian made engine? I'm thinking about blocking the boost port. Steve

Steve,

Your warranty on that ST 51 just expired.

Dan (trying to put some of the needed details in as a paranthetical comment at the end of the post just like Scott Riese does, you'll be happy with just installing better rings along with the Stunt-timing sleeve, rod and other stuff ought to be fine) Rutherford

>I have D.Dirt's old ST G.51 with reworked sleeve timing, and
>I'm thinking that I might like to put a stock stunt cylinder
>in it. Would also probably pop for a new piston, rod and
>wristpin. Have Bowman rings for it. The original sleeve was
>revised per GMA instructions, and frankly, I've always
>wanted to put my DS .60bb in the Mutant Magnum (aka Dixon's
>Magnum Plus). In other words, I like the ST G.51, but wish
>it had more *torque*. Any bets on whether the Chinese parts
>would fit the Italian made engine? I'm thinking about
>blocking the boost port. Steve

WHY CHANGED THE RE-WORK???

Steve we already have LEO, Rich, and Paul. No more PLEASE

Scott(do not re-invent the wheel)Riese

About seven years ago I decided to get back into stunt flying. My first purchase was a Sig Magnum, with a prior knowledge of building and flying this airplane, it was a snap to build.

Second purchase was a ST G-51 from the old hobby shop. I had smaller Super Tigers such as the ST40 & ST 46 and these engines were improved greatly by (The Layster) Tom Lay's handy work, sending him the G51 was a no brainer.

I got the engine back, broke it in and stuck it into the Magnum. The Magnum flew the pattern decently with the G-51. However in a few instances I wondered if this engine had the power that I thought it should. I limped along with this combination for a while trying to trim it out and being a trooper and sticking with it.

I was at a fly-in one day and two old flyers (farts) were questioning the flying of my airplane! They noticed that the engine would just about pull your arm off while on the groung prior to release but in the air it seemed to sag and fought itself and yours truly to complete the pattern.

Well these two gentlemen set upon me and decided it was time to find out just what the heck was going on here. I told them, go ahead and look at it, just don't break off the wings. I took a break to get a coke.

All of the sudden I heard this guy yelling and it was comming from behind his van. My God, the man said, the darn airplane weight is close to 72 ounces. I asked, is that a problem? No he said, as long as you got two of those G-51 engines flying the airplane.

This ST G-51 with a 12/5 zinger was flying a 72 ounce Magnum on 70 foot lines and on 5-29 GMA fuel. Gentlemen now that is what I call a testimonial to the G-51 power, Oh yea the Layster put in his two cents.

By the way thanks Hoyt(Hawk)Hawkings. I have learned a lot since then.

Hey let's get together and burn some fuel.

Merry Christmas to all
Mike Clark

LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-03 AT 11:54 PM (CDT)
 
Ahhhhhhhh. I went to Tower Hobby online, and checked the P/N's for the cylinders for both G.51 versions. They ARE different numbers. I also priced the cylinder, piston, rod and wristpin, and danged if that didn't come to a paltry $64. I ordered a complete engine. The G.51 CL, of course. With the boat anchor muffler. Will a muffler from anything else fit, like a Magnum .25 muffler? Steve

Edit: Tower has the G.51/CL on sale for $99.99 this week. Not sure for how long. Jerry, thanks for the tip on the muffler. However, I got an idea about making an adapter and putting a Magnum .25>.36 muffler on it. I would get a new stinger welded in at work, then open it up to about 3/8". I guess while I'm at it, I'd just weld on a new flange. I'll have to sweet talk my welder buddy (an ex-R/C & CL flier). He'd do it for donuts, I betcha.

http://www.nwskyraiders.com/index.html

Yeah, those .51 stock mufflers are really something! Like huge... 4.2 ounces without the little header-thingy. I have a 51 tube muffler from somewhere that's about 1.6 ounces that I vaguely remember being an Adamison creation but I don't recall where I got it. Also a couple of tongue mufflers - one came from Tom Dixon when he reworked my first 51, and the other (I think) came back with a Dixon OS40fp rework, but it fits the ST51 just fine. Try Tom if you're interested. He's always shipped stuff to me extremely fast. -Jerry

Steve

Coming from Oz, I don't look at Tower pricing very often but I have seen the $99.99 a couple of times since they announced the range was available again.

AUD$199 is the list here (an LA 46 is about AUD160) so the price is about right. The problem for me is all the guys I know have collections of the Italian-made ones and no need to buy the new ones.

Leonard can sell you an Adamisin tube muffler for the .51.

I think Tigre uses the same muffler design on everything up to the .91 It is a load.

Ron King