Which version of Stilleto is this?

I have found a plans photocopy on the internet of a Stilleto that looks a little different from any version of Stilleto I've seen. This doesn't look like the plans for Stilleto 35. The tail on this plan is taller.

[photo not recovered: Stiletto.jpg]

I've never seen this version either. I always thought the original design flew great (see pic). Maybe this new tail version was just to be a little different.

I think the first pic is of Les McDonald's .35 version of the Stilleto. Think it was published in the early 70s ('71?) in Model Airplane News.

The second pic is a later version - basically the .40/.46 version that won 3 World Championships. You can still get plans for that one thru Model Aviation (plan #193).

>I think the first pic is of Les McDonald's .35 version of
>the Stilleto. Think it was published in the early 70s
>('71?) in Model Airplane News.
>
>The second pic is a later version - basically the .40/.46
>version that won 3 World Championships. You can still get
>plans for that one thru Model Aviation (plan #193).

If you look on the plan on the upper left side it says Model Airplane News, June, 1974. It shows a half span of 63.8 cm or a bit over 50 inches. This should be his 35 size ship powered by an OS Max 35S (see notation under engine on plan).

>If you look on the plan on the upper left side it says Model
>Airplane News, June, 1974. It shows a half span of 63.8 cm
>or a bit over 50 inches. This should be his 35 size ship
>powered by an OS Max 35S (see notation under engine on
>plan).

Len,
I thought the same thing but what put me off was a number of differences between the plans and this scan:

1) the plans show model title as 'STILLETO 35'. the scan omits the 35 message completely. As a matter of fact, someone put 55 next to the title implying that this could be a .55 powered version.

2) The rudder looks taller than the 35 plans.

I've tried looking at the AMA online archives to take a look at the June 1974 issue but the web site is down.

Forgot to mention one more thing:

On 35 plans, fuselage cross section shows the triangular stock that holds the top of the turtledeck. The scan doesn't have it.

>1) the plans show model title as 'STILLETO 35'. the scan
>omits the 35 message completely. As a matter of fact,
>someone put 55 next to the title implying that this could be
>a .55 powered version.
>

I am not aware of a 55 version. There was a .40 and a .46.

However, there are metric measurements drawn onto the plan. A .35 cubic inch engine is a 5.7 cc. Could that be the reference to the 55? Anybody know of an OS Max 55?

>
>1) the plans show model title as 'STILLETO 35'. the scan
>omits the 35 message completely. As a matter of fact,
>someone put 55 next to the title implying that this could be
>a .55 powered version.

Steve;

If you look at the top of the plan, it shows the owner's conversion of the wingspan (inboard and outboard) to Metric from English. If you add the two together you get 137.9 cm. Divide that by 2.54 and you get a span of 54.29. I suspect the "55" refers to the wingspan in inches. There is also a tick mark after the 55. Normally, than means "feet" instead of inches (inches have two tick marks), but if the person doing the conversion was not very familiar with the English measuring system and abbreviations, this would be an easy mistake to make.

>
>2) The rudder looks taller than the 35 plans.
>

Again, if you you look at the picture, it looks as if someone has tried to erase the original outline. You can still see the remnants of the original outline on the plan. I suspect that this is the work of the onwer of the plans as he/she modified the outline to suit their tastes.

Can't tell if the handwritten notes were written in Italian or Spanish (or perhaps Portugese), but it definitely looks like a romance language. Interesting they took the original plans and converted it to metric for their use.

Just my observations, your mileage may vary...

LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-03 AT 02:51 PM (CST)
 
I have two kits, by M&P, that are of two versions. They came out circa 1977. The first is as on the MAN plans with the tall tail and the second kit is of the version drawn on your plans of the longer and shorter tail. Then there is the 660 version. I have a kit for it also, different kit mfr. Your MAN plans with the writing on it look like they were written on in Europe as most of the hand writing appears to be in Italian and the measurements are all metric. The two M&P kits use the same basic fuselage, but the wing ribs are different with the later kit have a thicker airfoil (20%??), same span and area, same wing chord, different rudder shape, different landing gear covers, and minor cosmetic changes. For a mere 300.00 for the two, plus shipping I'll sell you these two kits. Hurry, Christmas is only 10 days away. Get it for yourself, you deserve it, honest.

>I have two kits, by M&P, that are of two versions. They came
>out circa 1977. The first is as on the MAN plans with the
>tall tail and the second kit is of the version drawn on your
>plans of the longer and shorter tail.
You mean to say there were 2 versions of the 35?

>same span and area, same wing chord, different rudder shape,
I'm confused beyond recognition. Which version of the 35 plans is being sold today? I have a set with 'STILLETO 35' written on it.

>For a mere 300.00 for the two, plus shipping I'll sell you
>these two kits. Hurry, Christmas is only 10 days away. Get
>it for yourself, you deserve it, honest.
That would be indeed a VERY nice Christmas present alas too expensive for my blood.

Let me get this straight. There are 5 versions of Stilleto out there:
1) Stilleto 35 short tail
2) Stilleto 35 tall tail
3) Stilleto 660
4) Stilleto XL
5) Stilleto 46.

LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-03 AT 04:34 PM (CST)
 
Steven,

The plans you show are the Stiletto *35* plans from Model Airplane News. I don't believe the plans I sent you have "35" on them, just *Stiletto*, as there was no other size Stiletto when those were sent to be published. (??)

You will not find the June '74 MAN on the AMA site.
They have been drawn on, and this seems to distort the original. I have the original article for this plane, and Les speaks of building three of them in that size. Could have been minor differences in each.

The second scan shows the Stiletto 660 (might have been known as .40-46 by some) which represents Les's WC plane. Any other kits, etc., would be take offs on these two basic designs. Tom Dixon did the XL, and it was not one of Les' planes.

AS usual, there can be variations in the series, but Les, AFAIK, had the two basic size planes. Any others might as well be attributed to someone else.

Les is a great guy, and I believe he would be glad to share info on these planes with you.

Bill <><

Thanks for the clarification. I'll check the plans at home tonight but I would have sworn there was 35 in the title.
Steven Yampolsky

Almost. The 46 and the 660 are the same plane. Four versions, three kits, plus the Stiletto XL which is Tom Dixons version.

I believe that Les had another version with a lower aspect ratio wing and perhaps entitled the "700" version. Thought I remembered a picture of it near or around the time he won the World's with the 660.

>I believe that Les had another version with a lower aspect
>ratio wing and perhaps entitled the "700" version.

I've seen pictures from the 1975 Team Trials - that's where Les flew the 700 version of the Stilleto. (I know it was the "700" because the number "700" was stenciled prominently on the wing.)

To my knowledge, the 700 has never been published anywhere.

See, this is what I meant by driving guys crazy looking for a specific plane. There is no "specific" plane, just a bunch of variations on the basic theme. No wonder historians have that glazed look in their eyes. Now I know why I never pursued my desire to be a historian. My wife got her degree in History and the research drove her nuts, That's why she married me, she's nuts.

I agree that the "700" version was never published. I am just glad that someone remembers the same pictures that I did. The number 700 was very big when painted on that version's wings.