Hand Launch Gliders

I was exposed to these when I was a kid and I am not talking about the nickle gliders Pop bought for you at the hobby shop to keep you quite while he sorted balsa by grain and weight!

I'm talking about those fabulous little sailers that would grab a thermal and never come back! Built on the fly and made to fly in circles above your head on a whim and out of site.

Several times as I remember they were painted orange so you could spot em...ergo chase them,,,just to wind up and pump it out there again.

Yeah I remember some good ones that were lost in thermals.....just kept going and going......wonder where they all end up?????

there are some good plans out there if you are interested.....

Pat Johnston and I used to build gliders based on the "Challenger". It was a FAI hand launch design from many years ago. Couple of summers ago, Pat tossed one at the COLD contest. Flew for many, many minutes caught in a thermal. The air was no good for fly stunt planes, anyway. Landed about 20 feet from where Pat tossed it.

I've lost a lot of those over the years. Just keep going up until they disappear. Throw them up in a steep, tight, right hand circle. They flatten out and glide in a big left hand circle. Lot of fun to be had for not much time time invested.

LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-03 AT 01:39 AM (CST)
 
>Pat Johnston and I used to build gliders based on the
>"Challenger". It was a FAI hand launch design from many
>years ago. Couple of summers ago, Pat tossed one at the COLD
>contest. Flew for many, many minutes caught in a thermal.
>The air was no good for fly stunt planes, anyway. Landed
>about 20 feet from where Pat tossed it.
>
>I've lost a lot of those over the years. Just keep going up
>until they disappear. Throw them up in a steep, tight, right
>hand circle. They flatten out and glide in a big left hand
>circle. Lot of fun to be had for not much time time
>invested.
>
>

Randy Powell

That thing did fly for a long time, seems like 16 minutes or something. I really didn't think it was going to come down.

Btw, I'm in the process of filling out the paperwork for COLD 2004.
It will be at the Jefferson County Fairgrounds this time.
Now I have to *scrape up* something to eat....

Hey Grandpa! What's fer' dinner??

Waay back in 1973 Pat Johnston was the Cd at a free flight contest near the Idaho State Prison outside of Boise. I was doing a test flight of a "Flash" and three times the timer said "are you sure you don't want this as an official?" "Naw, it's only a test flight, it won't go far", says I. Ha, I had to hop on the back of a trail bike and we chased it 17 miles. 17 miles. It took forever to get back and the **&^ thing kept flying when I gave up. It's still out there in the desert. I still have 7 different kits of these things.

>I'm talking about those fabulous little sailers that would
>grab a thermal and never come back! Built on the fly and
>made to fly in circles above your head on a whim and out of
>site.
>
>Several times as I remember they were painted orange so you
>could spot em...ergo chase them,,,just to wind up and pump
>it out there again.

Best bang for the buck you can get in modeling. I might add that you can learn more about trimming all sorts of model, including stunt planes, than any other form of model.

Brett

And these days if your arm isn't strong enough, there's a catapult launch glider event and designs.

I still fly them. The arm, although not in teen age shape anymore, still works pretty well.

I started with Jetco Thermic B's at 50 cents a pop, and don't ask what the going ebay price is nowadays. There still are kits out there; I think the Flash and US Kid are examples.

If I see one already built at a swap, I usually buy it, and wait until July, when the thermals build.

At a Michigan State Championship Meet in the late 70s, at the old Packard Proving Grounds in Utica, I lost a plane, that, TTBOMK, is still flying. The last time I saw it, it was about the height of the Washington Memorial, and flying towards Flint.

Thing about HLGs...once they get up there, if you take your eye off of them for just a second, you can't spot them again. Especially with my eyes, these days. You can paint 'em fushcia, and it still won't help.

Google "Hand Lauched Glider" or Gliders sometime. There is a wealth of info there, including plans that you can download.

I concur. At WAM contests in Northern California I have fared much better in 10" HLG than in precision aerobatics. I don't know whether I fly stunt in order to chuck the gliders or vice versa....John Cocking, NorCal Circle Jerks

John Cocking, NorCal Circle Jerks

> Best bang for the buck you can get in modeling. I might
>add that you can learn more about trimming all sorts of
>model, including stunt planes, than any other form of model.
>
> Brett

I agree, almost completely, with you, Brett. HLGs are terrific learning/teaching vehicles.
However, if you want a daunting trimming challenge, try a 0.75 GRAM or lighter EZB (a rubber powered, indoor duration model with an 18" wingspan, 14" prop, unlimited length) for which even the extent of fuselage twisting and deflection, and the effects of those on the twisting of the wing over the full torque curve of the rubber motor, are included in the list of trimming factors. Larger, more sophisticated indoor duration planes with variable pitch props are an even greater challenge.

>> Best bang for the buck you can get in modeling. I might
>>add that you can learn more about trimming all sorts of
>>model, including stunt planes, than any other form of model.
>>
>> Brett
>
>I agree, almost completely, with you, Brett. HLGs are
>terrific learning/teaching vehicles.
>However, if you want a daunting trimming challenge, try a
>0.75 GRAM or lighter EZB (a rubber powered, indoor duration
>model with an 18" wingspan, 14" prop, unlimited length) for
>which even the extent of fuselage twisting and deflection,
>and the effects of those on the twisting of the wing over
>the full torque curve of the rubber motor, are included in
>the list of trimming factors. Larger, more sophisticated
>indoor duration planes with variable pitch props are an even
>greater challenge.

Peter,
There is an important element missing from indoor rubber events that's crucial to trimming a HLG,GasFF and especially a control line model...that is higher speed trimming. I've flown Baby ROG,B tissue, B&C Stick, and every Category of indoor HLG. Indoor High Ceiling HLG was probably the most challenging due to the High/low speed envelope encountered...and yes, I've had several single flights over 1Min :20sec's so I know what is required to get there...In all my years of participating in competitive events I'm not so quick to choose the most difficult modeling event or the highest tech one either. Often times the Technical elements are so refined that they go completely unnoticed...which is just fine....Wish I still had the Arm for HL...... Tony

John,

Yup, ben there & done that! I used to win a lot too! Now my arm cannot throw high enough for winning, but there was a time I could get one up 80-100 feet on the lauch.

Interesting phenomenon going on here:

If you look at "committed CLers" (and a pretty decent criterion is participation at good old SSW right here):

There is remarkable participation as:

Hand Launched Glider people

Musicians (this pops out in random threads here, at Flightlines, old Iskys, RConline when it was something, etc)

Overrepresentation for the two above categories, actually.

There are some "rhythm" and "musical flow" overtones to Stunt, I would think. (Over my head, regrettably).

>
>Hand Launched Glider people
>

Add me to the list. I last flew HLG and HHCG at the 2003 USOC/FF Nats in Muncie. My one big contest every year. Really tough to win when you're up against 50 or so flyers all of whom are good. Best finish ever was third with my trusty, killer light, Bo-Weevil. Lost it OOS a couple years later along with one of Bob Hanford Jr.'s gliders in a monster thermal. The good ones always fly away (even with a DT), leaving only the so-so to poor models...

And they've added an OT catapult class too, BTW. So you can fly HLG and HHCG for both AMA and SAM classes. The Huglet B and Obarski are my current weapons of choice.

As for indoor, I'm a fanatic. The new Science Olympiad ships are very good for beginners. I fly a lot of Limited Pennyplane. Most return of flight time/building time in all model flying, IMHO. I'm buzzing around models that are 10 years old and have spent many hours in the air, 2-5 minutes at a time. I joined the local RC soaring club, only to discover that they fly indoor in a church rec room 6 miles out my front door, once a month. Such a deal!

Keep Flinging Those Gliders!

>Interesting phenomenon going on here:
>
>If you look at "committed CLers" (and a pretty decent
>criterion is participation at good old SSW right here):
>
>There is remarkable participation as:
>
>Hand Launched Glider people
>
>Musicians (this pops out in random threads here, at
>Flightlines, old Iskys, RConline when it was something, etc)
>
>Overrepresentation for the two above categories, actually.
>
>There are some "rhythm" and "musical flow" overtones to
>Stunt, I would think. (Over my head, regrettably).
>
>Currell

Yup, as well as Cl and HLG I keep a six string around the house and played drums semi pro for many years. After bailing out of weekend warrior gigs in the early 90's I went to an audition a few months back with absolutely no practice and played a borrowed set. They hired me and so have just purchased a new drum set after many years of relative quiet around the house. Having a blast!

>There are some "rhythm" and "musical flow" overtones to
>Stunt, I would think. (Over my head, regrettably).
>
>Currell

Naw, Currell, that's just "folklore"...

I'm a jazz musician and I never linked stunt to what I do as a living.

The thing that stunt might have in common with other arts is a k8ind of "balance" that you gotta keep in order to perform well, on a sax solo, a a ballet danse of a stunt pattern.

It might have to do with performing arts.
Ion

>John,
>
>Yup, ben there & done that! I used to win a lot too! Now
>my arm cannot throw high enough for winning, but there was a
>time I could get one up 80-100 feet on the lauch.
>
>Jim Pollock

Yes Jim, Me too(or is it three?).I flew HLG and IHLG almost exclusively for several years, My C/L Combat flying went by the wayside during that period; I didn't return to C/l Combat for approx.twenty years. I couldn't begin to remember how many Hand Launch's I lost in a 4-5 year period. I didn't start using DT's until the end of my H/L flying. I often employed the very dangerous tactic of bringing only one model to a contest...no DT of course. You need to be in great running shape with only one model and no chase Bike. I also won and placed in a few contests in those days.
I keep thinking about redrawing some of my HLGs so other younger and of course stronger more spirited souls could experience such intimate rapport with the elements. The designs are timeless; my outdoor design is an evolution of Lee's(Hines) "Sweeper"(not Sweepette), which stemmed from modified Flangers...due to the fact that we were skinny lads with weak arms...very unlike Larry Conover. Okay I know this isn't a FF forum..But,I too learned so much from building and trimming Hand Launches that has directly influenced my FF model flying, and especially Control line modeling.. Tony Gallegos

Man, I used to love the Berkley "Chuckers" when I was a kid. We'd go down to the hobby shop and pick one up in it's little plastic bag, get the small tube of Ambroid and rush back home to see who could get theirs finished 1st. They were great little planes!

Anybody else out there have the hots to build a small (say, oh, 30" span) catapult launched (fat piece of surgical tubing tied to a hand-held dowel) 2 channel r/c play-around glider? 2 of the little 6 gm servos with Spiderwire pull-pull hookup, a 6 gm parkflier rcvr.,a Li-Poly 340mAh 9gm cell, hand carved light balsa wing and v-tails, light carbon boom. Should thermal decently and still have a way to bring it back down to a hand catch! I've been saying that to myself for a couple years now and can't seem to find the time between other projects to actually design & build one.

I've build and lost a lot of chuck gliders over the years. I still have a Reid Hull Rain Crow, a fine glider.

We put on an annual HLG contest under the auspices of the AIAA. It was pretty well attended until we all got too old to chuck without shoulder injuries.

We used to end many of our Wednesday evening sessions in what was then a field for polo--talk about a bunch of weenies!--sited right next door to our CL circles. Mass launches, last down wins.

My last U.S. Kid is CA'd to the ceiling in my shop. Height of fin and wing tips places it in the perfect gliding attitude and at comin'-home altitude.

Lost one HLG three separate times; people actually will read information on the wing and give you a call. Although in the case of this particular glider, while it was indeed found the third time, it was laying in the middle of a residential street and had been run over quite thoroughly.

DTs are only for those who don't have a stack of suitable 1/4" balsa sheet.

To all. I have a stable of HLG including Thermic 18, Thermic 20, JETCO THERMIC B, and the Testors Endurance Glider. I have copied plans for all of these, and I will send a plan for a SASE, or send $1 for a large manila envelope with plans only folded once (or twice).

Even at age 70, I can sill put them up high enough to lose them in a thermal!

Floyd Carter
AMA #796

87211 Louvring Ln.
eugene, OR 97402

>To all. I have a stable of HLG including Thermic 18,
>Thermic 20, JETCO THERMIC B, and the Testors Endurance
>Glider. I have copied plans for all of these, and I will
>send a plan for a SASE, or send $1 for a large manila
>envelope with plans only folded once (or twice).

Floyd,

Thanks for a most generous offer. I want coppies of all of them, in the big envelope. How much do I need to send?

Thanks Again,

John,
You along with a few other guys on this board might remeber my flight at the 98 or 99 Nats? The hand launch glider was a Sweepette 19 built to the plans from a Campbell's kit. Dan Banjock and I were flying free flight as we always do at the Nats (we don't get to fly on fields that big very often). On one of my launches the Sweepette rolled out and leveled off only to spiral in. I knew that was the edge of a thermal and the plane was entering it at the wrong angle. I ran up the field a short distance and launched again. I was excited to hook a thermal and ended up getting a bad launch. Later we would find out that it didn't matter. When it leveled off this time the wings started to rock and roll. It slowly started to climb towards the sky and that was the last I would see of that airplane. It was top five day and I remember just about everybody watching it climb over the L-pad through out its 40min flight. We chased it acrossed the entire AMA site to the road when we lost site of it in a cloud. Later that day Banjock and I took an aerobatic flight in the Pitts Special at the Reece airport next to the AMA site. We found out the cloud base was at about 2,500'!!

>John,
> You along with a few other guys on this board might
>remeber my flight at the 98 or 99 Nats? The hand launch
>glider was a Sweepette 19 built to the plans from a
>Campbell's kit. Dan Banjock and I were flying free flight as
>we always do at the Nats (we don't get to fly on fields that
>big very often). On one of my launches the Sweepette rolled
>out and leveled off only to spiral in. I knew that was the
>edge of a thermal and the plane was entering it at the wrong
>angle. I ran up the field a short distance and launched
>again. I was excited to hook a thermal and ended up getting
>a bad launch. Later we would find out that it didn't matter.
>When it leveled off this time the wings started to rock and
>roll. It slowly started to climb towards the sky and that
>was the last I would see of that airplane. It was top five
>day and I remember just about everybody watching it climb
>over the L-pad through out its 40min flight. We chased it
>acrossed the entire AMA site to the road when we lost site
>of it in a cloud. Later that day Banjock and I took an
>aerobatic flight in the Pitts Special at the Reece airport
>next to the AMA site. We found out the cloud base was at
>about 2,500'!!

I remember Mike! In fact that inspired me to build some and Moons always build a few HLG in their room while at the Nats. I never build from plans though, just hand select some hard balsa a start cutting and shaping. My girlfriends sons and I go out and heave a few once a week or so in the field behind our house. We havent lost any recently though and I am still miffed at you guys for dissappearing over to the airport without me for the Pitts ride. In 2001 we took an aerobatic ride in the clipped wing Cub. More than a dream to do cubans and four point rolls in a Cub. I was in heaven! The group that went with Dan and I that day, Steve Starr and Kenny Stevens and one of the detroit boys I think....we didnt stop grinning for several hours.

I flew a Sweepette indoors on wednesday as part of my Wright Brothers Day observance. Great airplane!! I primarily fly mine indoors so it won't fly away.

A couple of years ago I was at the field and my friend Chicão showed up with a tiny tiny hand glider.

I gave a couple of shots at it but nothing hapened.

When it was time to go home, and we were packing our stuff I gave it another try, just for the heck of it,not expecting any results, but...

The danged little thing went up and up, and we ended up having to rescue it from the roof of a bungalow in a construction site nearby.

I was very much in awe...

Several years ago I was working in my garden, neighbors and a gathering of their friends were having an afternoon barbecue in their monstrous yard (used to be a horse pasture).

One of the fathers had purchased one of those molded-foam 747 gliders you've probably all seen. It was tossed around a bit, but was (properly, in my opinion) treated as nothing more than a toy.

After eating, and presumably consuming some adult beverages, a tall and lanky guy picked up the glider. The guy could really throw that sucker. I was impressed, as these things are big, bulky, hard to hold and real draggy.

About the 5th or 6th throw he was getting a handle on how to punch it up nicely while also transitioning into some form of a decent glide.

Of course he hit lift. A whole passle of urchins came storming through my yard, some of them on bicycles, all chasing it as the model circled, slowly but perceptibly gaining altitude. And drifting downwind, of course.

They never found the model, and I quickly tired of tracking the thing. So I don't know if it winked out or just came down in the top of a fir tree.

Two weeks later the same crowd showed up again. Every single kid had a new 747 glider, some had multiples for spares for when the primary piece flew away.

Kids and fathers threw those things for hours, most determining only that the first model was a good one, that the current crop must be defective in some unknown way.

LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-03 AT 11:19 PM (CST)
 
A picture from our fall carolina contest , American Junior 404 mass launch event, after all of the flying was done on Sat , Man what a good time ,Hand launch gliders and catapault gliders are alot of fun for us (kids) of all ages

William Davis

For mass produced, store bought stuff, the little nickel North Pacific glider,with the clip on wing and Gee Bee trim on top, gets my vote.

I liked it better than the dime (larger) version.

The Walker 74 Fighter was OK, but sand the devil out of it.

Testor's Go Hi wasn't too bad.

For "rubba", the 49 cent AJ Hornet gets my vote. Much better than the Testor's junk. Walker had an Interceptor later, which was larger, but it set you back a prohibitive 79 cents. A different price point altogether, at least for Young Currell.

>For "rubba", the 49 cent AJ Hornet gets my vote.

I have won numerous Cloudbusters indoor rubber speed events with the Hornet. Flies great outdoors too. Killer airplane. Fortunately, a new replica is available...

>For mass produced, store bought stuff, the little nickel
>North Pacific glider,with the clip on wing and Gee Bee trim
>on top, gets my vote.

"Stunt Flyer" glider. You put the cambered stabilizer in upright for long flights, and down for "stunts"

>For "rubba", the 49 cent AJ Hornet gets my vote. Much better
>than the Testor's junk.

I had more luck with the North Pacific "Sleek Streak". Once I learned to take off the landing gear, and discovered T-56 rubber in bulk, I had many fly-aways.

I could never get a Sleek Streek that didn't have a warped wing. I had a lot better luck with the Star Flyer (also from North Pacific). The Guillows ones had wood that was too thick and didn't fly nearly as well.

I got one of the names wrong. The A J Walker Interceptor had the folding wings. Repro'ed today at usurious rates, way beyond inflation (50 cents in '62)

I pulled out a 1962 America's Hobby Center catalog to reacquaint myself with some of the RTF gliders and "rubba".

Strato: That was the nickel 9" North Pacific, with the Gee Bee trim on the wing. Loved that plane. As a kid, I would mod them to B-25 rudders. Sometimes they would fly better. Maybe it was CG movement.

Stunt Flyer: As BB mentioned, the horizontal stab was warped deliberately. One was for long flights, the other stunt. I can't remember if the color changed when you flipped it. But it told you what the plane would do on the surface. Dime model, 13.5" span.

Cleveland Cloud King. A big 3 foot model from Cleveland, at a bit over a dollar in the '50s. You punched the balsa wings through some aluminum crutch to hold it to the fuse.

Guillow's Jet Fire Glider: Didn't fly well. There was another similar one called the Starfire F-94.

Testor's Little Dipper (rubba). 49 cents. Hated this plane. Horrible LG, but you didn't use them anyway. Often warped in the bag. 17.5" span.

Testor's Go Hi: Pretty decent. Fuse looked like a Sabre Jet. Forgot that it came in two spans, 11.5" and 17.75".

A J Hornet (Rubba). The best. Secret was the, well, rubba, and a well designed prop. I can smell the balsa from the steamed wing now, as you opened the box. 18" span

Stanzel Aeromic Streak. 15" span. Think it had a plastic fuse. Too heavy to fly well.

A J Pursuit: This was the bigger Hornet. Nice model, but not as popular as the Hornet. Expensive at 79 cnets.

Top Flite Silver Arrow and Silver Dart (rubba). These had sluminum foil bonded to balsa. You would see them sold in drug stores. Good looking, too heavy. Sold in a nice box.

Northern Pacific Skeeter (rubba). Basically, a powered version of their gliders. 13" span. They also had the Sleek Streek and the VTO Sky Flyer.

A J 74 Fighter. Zillions sold. Dime.

Anyone remember any others?

LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-03 AT 09:18 PM (CDT)
 
Incidentally... (I think Andy Tomasch would be the most qualified to answer this..)

Has the discus-launch concept made it's way to FF HLG competition yet? I was kicking around the idea with a friend of mine, and I don't see why it wouldn't work. I don't think there are any size restrictions on FF HLGs, so you might as well build one about the size of a RC DLG, and use such things as carbon booms and molded wings, maybe even timer-controlled camber change... The RC DLGs are achieving double the pre-DLG launch heights, so... hmmm...

>Incidentally... (I think Andy Tomasch would be the most
>qualified to answer this..)
>
>Has the discus-launch concept made it's way to FF HLG
>competition yet? I was kicking around the idea with a friend
>of mine, and I don't see why it wouldn't work. I don't think
>there are any size restrictions on FF HLGs, so you might as
>well build one about the size of a RC DLG, and use such
>things as carbon booms and molded wings, maybe even
>timer-controlled camber change... The RC DLGs are achieving
>double the pre-DLG launch heights, so... hmmm...
>
>

Interesting idea, and no, no hint of this yet. Definitely worth thinking about!

>>Incidentally... (I think Andy Tomasch would be the most
>>qualified to answer this..)
>>
>>Has the discus-launch concept made it's way to FF HLG
>>competition yet? I was kicking around the idea with a friend
>>of mine, and I don't see why it wouldn't work. I don't think
>>there are any size restrictions on FF HLGs, so you might as
>>well build one about the size of a RC DLG, and use such
>>things as carbon booms and molded wings, maybe even
>>timer-controlled camber change... The RC DLGs are achieving
>>double the pre-DLG launch heights, so... hmmm...
>>
>>
>
>Interesting idea, and no, no hint of this yet. Definitely
>worth thinking about!
>

I tried it. Either I was unable to master it's intricacies, or it doesn't work.I don't think the problem is necessarily the same as R/C HLGs, where they are so heavy that you can't muscle them up. Being twice as strong wouldn't necessarily help a 3/4 oz HLG - the limitation seems to be on arm velocity, not strength. And, the launch angle and velocity is critical. With R/C you can always correct it, but FF HLG, no way.

Maybe that's where auto surfaces (or even the old CLG rubber-tension elevator tabs) might come in handy - if you can set the thing to increase incidence at the point of glide transition, you can then make the throw a lot less critical, since the glider will be able to recover better from a bad throw.

It won't make much sense to discus launch current HLGs - just plain too small, I think, to take advantage of it, and probably trimmed in the wrong way. Come to think of it.. a larger glider also means the timer can see it further away.

You need the strength to keep the tail from flexing (or breaking off altogether) during the heavy yaw during launch.

Brett,

Mike and I did the same. We flew ours in a scool yard near his house. They went all over the neighborhood when they hitched up to a thermal accidentally. We tried to avoid thermals because we knew what would happen. However, we still had them going everywhere. Yup, the Sleek Streek, sans LG and high performance rubber was the method of choice. This was circa 69-72. Gee, the old days were great! Ops, sorry, I guess you were a younster in those days?

John (and anyone else who wants to join in): You are welcome to join the Doug and I in our annual unofficial Moon Bros. Nightly Hand Launch Glider contest at the Nats each year. A great way to have some inexpensive fun and not think about the #@#*^*%% hourglass and square eights for a few minutes.

Believe it or not, there are a few rules (often broken; you know who you are): You must buy the glider (or wood) at the Nats and build it while there. Needless to say, we've destroyed several tables at the Ramada. Doug even managed to glue his entire stab to the table once. Never could get that piece of balsa off the table. As for flying; mass launch, last plane left in the air (me) wins!!

Big fun, love HLGs.

If I may brag a little. Back in the late 70's I flew with the Thermaleers FF Club in St Louis. We would have indoor contests in he 35-ft ceiling East St. Louis Armory. I, at age 40 someting, twice tied the Junior indoor HLG record of 62 seconds for two flights. Of course, Stan Stoy was flying 70 + seconds and setting Open records at the same contests.

Stan and Mike Stoy (Mike won both indoor and outdoor HLG at one of the Nats) were fun to watch at our oudoor contests. They would get timers and lay their stuff down, then run around beating cattail fluffies into the air until they found a thermal. They would load it up with flufffies, then run back, get their gliders, run to the thermal, throw the gliders into the thermal and take off running after them. Boundless energy!