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Recommendations for profile stunter

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Scott Correa · Aug 17, 2001 10:18 PM

Recommendations for profile stunter#0 source
Hi Guys...
I'm looking for recommendations for a good flying
profile ship. I'd like it to build reasonably quickly
as I need a replacement for todays lawn dart.
Ideally it should turn outside corners automatically
without listening to the inept guy holding the handle.

Foam wings are not a problem. Available engines
are Fox 35 and an FP40.

Thanks

Scott Correa

LNeumann · Aug 17, 2001 10:34 PM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#1 source
LAST EDITED ON Aug-17-01 AT 10:37 PM (CDT)

The Brodak Pathfinder has a constant cord wing that is easy to build square. The wood is good. The hardware is OK. It comes with instructions. And, oh yes, it flies pretty fair, also.

But it does help to have someone who knows what he is doing at the handle.

Leonard Neumann

Nils · Aug 18, 2001 01:36 AM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#2 source
I have a Brodak profile Oriental/FP.40 that flys very well. Easy to build. I'm running a Macs muffler & Tornado 10-4 three blade on it. It flys great but it needs a lot of tail weight with the stock nose, if I had it to do over I'd either shorten the nose or move the wing forward.
Nils

denlip · Aug 18, 2001 07:01 AM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#3 source
I'd give serious consideration to the TCI Firecat. This is a very complete, easy to build kit that will give you hours of flying fun.
The kit is complete with wheels, tank, all allen screws, Fox bellcrank. leadouts, pushrod material, good quality silkspan,nice dural gear, and all the wood parts are laser cut and slotted for easy assembly.
I built my first one with a Fox 35 and have had hours of flying with it. It will fly the pattern if built lightly and that is not too difficult to do.
Brodaks are also very good, but there is a little more building in the kits that were described to you. If you want to get in the air reasonably fast with a nice plane then the Firecat gets a thumbs up from me < for what it's worth> Dennis

Gary Widmer · Aug 18, 2001 11:23 AM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#6 source
Leonard:

I'm going to start building my Pathfinder this weekend. What are your thoughts on an appropriate engine/tank? I was anticipating using an ST .46 but am open to any suggestions.

Gary

Joe Bellcrank · Aug 18, 2001 01:01 PM

Brodaks' Pathfinder#10 source
The Pathfinder is a good design for stunt competition, and conversely, a great sport plane. It's designed to make it easy for a low time builder to construct. The trike gear is there for a reason. It will handle a grass field well, and take offs and landings are much easier, therefore will score higher in competitions.

The wing is designed to be built on a flat surface, without the need for jigging or levelling blocks, You'll notice that the airfoil is flat from the high point back to the trailing edge, Though the instructions call out the leveling blocks, it's simpler to not use them. Your choice though.

First, with a soft pencil, draw a centerline on each rib.

Make up your spars and trailing edge sheeting. Cover the plans with the plastic from the back of your favorite plastic coating, or wax paper.

Pin the trailing edge sheeting to the plans in the correct position. Set the spar over the correct position, and install the ribs. Be sure to place the center ribs in the center and that you have the Ribs with the doubler and cutout for the gear blocks in the right place. The cutouts for the gear blocks should be closest to the building surface.

Make sure the ribs are correctly aligned and install the top spar. Pin as needed, and make sure the bottom spar is all the way into place on each rib. Then using thin Ca and an applicator tip, glue every thing in place starting at the trailing edge. Once the assembly is glued, use some Ambroid, or thick slow Ca and glue the top trailing edge into place.

Install the leading edge next. Make sure that it's straight and that any curves are not oriented up or down, rather they should be either fore or aft. If it's not possible to orient them correctly, either make up a new one without any twists or bowing, or draw a center line and line that up with the center line of each rib. With the leading edge Glued into place, use a small block plane to true up the shape similar to what is shown on the fuse side view. It should look more like a triangle, you will bring it to final shape after the sheeting and cap strips are installed.

Install the controls as shown.

Install the top L.E. sheeting starting at the spar. Roll the sheeting towards the leading edge, and tack glue it to the prepared leading edge. At this point, the glue is only on at the spar and the leading edge. Install the center sheeting. don't leave off the radii at the leading and trailing edge sheeting. Clear the slot for the flap push rod where shown. Install the cap strips on the top of the ribs as shown.

Now, turn the wing over, block up the trailig edge so the flap pushrod clears,lay some weights across the ribs to make sure the Top, (now on the bottom) leading edge sheeting is flat and tight to your building board and install the leading edge sheeting in the same way you did the top. Remove the weights. Install the gear blocks and tip weight box. Now install the cap strips and bottom center sheeting.

Remove the wing and holding it so you can use thin Ca and an applicator tip, glue the leading edge sheeting to the ribs.

All that is left are the wing tips and adjustable leadouts. They install as per instructions.

Sand the leading edge shape true to what is shown on the plans.

Set up a sanding block with 220 or 320 sand paper and give the entire wing a good sanding. Pay attention to where the cap strips butt into the leading and trailing edge sheeting. You want the transition to be smooth. I also sand a slight radius on all surfaces where the covering will contact wood. Not much, just enough to soften the outline that will show when it's covered.

On the fuse, the recessed tank mount is worth the time it takes to set ip up. Also, if you can, use the optional "corrected" flap horn shown at the top of the plans. All demensions are provided and it's not too hard to make, but you will have dead on symetrical throws on the controlling surfaces if you use it. The RC style horn on the elevator will work fine.

Use at least 1/8" music wire for the bellcrank to flap link and a CF arrowshaft for the elevator link. Ball links work great when connecting the bellcrank to the flap, but 4-40 clevises, secured with a ring of fuel tubing, will work fine for the elevator link. You could use a Z bend at the flap end without a problem. But you want to be able to adjust the elevator, so use a clevis on that end at least.

Some feel that clevises are an accident waiting to happen, and they can be if you don't use the right ones. Never ever use the common 2-56 RC clevises. they will fail. Always use 4-40 clevises. I prefer the type that has a securing hook for the fuel tubing safety. I've used them for years without a failure.

Use Sullivan light weight wheels. they are a little bit heavier than the Dave Brown units, but have a hard rubber surface that won't wear out so fast.

The Pathfinder is designed to use Monokote or other iron on coverings on the flying surfaces to help control weight buildup, but any good covering system can be used. We've always used silkspan and dope to prep our fuselages. I've finished my last few planes using Top Flights Lusterkote. It matches the Monokote and is a darned good paint that is very fuel proof. Of course if you use something other than plastic covering on the flight surfaces, you can choose the finish you want. I'm partial to Brodaks myself.

Balance where shown to start. Trim to suit, and you'll be surprized at how well it flies.

Power? We have almost always used a modified OS 40fp. I've seen nice flying examples powered by ST .46's and I'm sure that there are many engines in that size range that are acceptable. One of the possible drawbacks to larger than a .40 engine might be having to use .018 lines. I know some topfliers who prefer them though.

Avoid heavy engines that will require additional weight to balance as it's just dead weight. The plane should come out at 44 ounces for a light one, and about 52 ounces for one approaching the upper limits.

When the balance is correct, the plane will just barely set proper without fuel in the tank. When you push the tail down, it will set that way. Gear placement, for trikes, is important and the way this one is set up allows for almost effortless take offs and landings.

Enjoy your Pathfinder, It won't hold you back.

John

LNeumann · Aug 18, 2001 02:21 PM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#11 source
John did a good job of laying out the construction details on the wing. If you have an ST 46 and want to use it on this plane it should work well. You won't overpower it, but a 35-40 FP or similar should do fine as well.

On the tank, I have never been a fan of plastic tanks. Tried 'em, didn't like 'em. The one nice thing about a plastic tank is you can see the problems as they develop. I would go with a metal uniflow tank--perhaps an oval profile from Brodak of appropriate size. And if you are flying off of grass, the Lite Flite wheels from Dave Brown are fine. The treaded version are harder and work fine for concrete.

Leonard Neumann

Bigiron13 · Aug 18, 2001 09:29 PM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#12 source
I agree with John and Leonard. I would be very cautious with the Fox on a profile. They can sometimes be very cantankerious when mounted on profile systems. If I had a choice (like already have both in hand) I would opt for the OS 40 FP or Tigre 46.
Bigiron

Jake · Aug 18, 2001 08:16 AM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#4 source
All these are good suggestions. The Twister with Ted Fancher's mods is a good one to consider also.

JAK

Currell · Aug 18, 2001 08:55 AM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#5 source
Streak/Fox. Currell

hiflyer · Aug 18, 2001 12:00 PM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#7 source
Againe all good suggestions.
I did have and liked the Brodak Tanager which is the profile version of the Accentor.
Used a brodak KB40, it worked but was on the heavy side. Your OS40 should do the trick for the Tanager.

Big Country Joe · Aug 18, 2001 12:19 PM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#8 source
I agree with the Twister/mods. Can be a delight to fly. If your in a big hurry to fly and practice then A Ukey 35 or 40 can get you back in the air the quickest of anything out there. They have been called ugly, but they do the pattern well and the price is right. Over 400 of them now have been produced and shipped, jso they must be doing something right.

Kiiski · Aug 18, 2001 12:29 PM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#9 source
>Streak/Fox. Currell


Yup
Kiiski

Jim P · Aug 18, 2001 10:24 PM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#13 source
You are seeking both"easy to build" and "good flying". The Sig Twister is very easy to build, maybe half the total assemby time of the Cardinal or Pathfinder. Flys very well stock but a few mods make it a very good flyer such as lengthening aft fuselage around 1.5 inches if FP 40 used, enlarge stab and elevator surfaces by two inches(total) horizontally and going to 1/4 wood (this is easily done and saves wood by laminating on 1/16 th medium to the kit stab and elevator halves, extend an extra 1 inch on both sides of the kit stab and elevator of and filling in the gaps with 3/16 scrap,sand to shape), also add 1/2 balsa fuselage tripler, dural gear available from Leonard,and reshape the ugly fin but maintain plenty of side area, use "poor boy" adjustable leadouts which work well in Twister type wing tips. Easy builder, easy mods, and flys very well. The 1.5" extra tail moment should get the CG pretty close with the 40FP. Would not extend the fuselage if Fox 35 to be used.
If the emphasis is on flyability(and apperance), the Cardinal and/or Pathfinder, built per plans will most likely fly better with more area, probably better overall designs, fully sheeted LE for a possibly more effective and consistent airfoil. Some construction time can be saved on the Cardinal by omitting the wheel pants and maybe going to a different wing tip arrangement.
Both are significantly bigger and prettier ships than the Twister.

Jake · Aug 19, 2001 12:34 PM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#15 source
LAST EDITED ON Aug-19-01 AT 12:38 PM (CDT)


You then wind up with what is pretty much a Fancher Twister. The Sig kit is of course based on the full-size Twister aerobatic ship (which some folk apparently don't know) and which itself is not exactly beautiful, although it flew pretty well from what I understand.
When you say "Profile Stunter" today, you nearly always imply a flapped design, although I agree the Flite Streak properly built and powered flies as well (or better!) as most any profile ever designed, flaps or no.

JAK

Old Sourdough · Aug 22, 2001 12:39 AM

Twister#19 source
JAK,

I wouldn't want to argue with some one of your knowledge, but I believe that the Twister is loosely based upon the Stepjens Akro.

OS

The Old Sourdough
Ruksakinmakiak, Alaska, US of A

Old Sourdough · Aug 22, 2001 12:43 AM

RE: Twister#20 source
That would be the STEPHENS Akro.

Some have claimed that the airfoil and moments are based on Rabe's Mustunt I without the "crutch," which allows the engine to be mounted upright or inverted.

OS

The Old Sourdough
Ruksakinmakiak, Alaska, US of A

Ty M. · Aug 19, 2001 12:57 AM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#14 source
I have just finished and test flown my profile Cardinal. It is not quick to build, flies like a dream once trimmed, looks great. I do not reccommend it for a first profile. I'd go with a Flite Streak. Quick, looks great flies grreeaat, easy to build, quick to build, flies grreeaat. Get it? Others are nice, but you want quick and easy, fly the Streak. Fox works just fine on them. Guess how I know. Ty

Mark Mitchell · Aug 20, 2001 09:06 AM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#17 source
Ty--With what are you powering your Cardinal and how do you have it set up?

Steve Scott · Aug 19, 2001 01:21 PM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#16 source
Although no longer produced, I always liked the Top Flite Tutor. I've built two, the second modified per Dave Hemstrought's article in a 1980's vintage Model Airplane News. He suggested adding 2" tips to each wing panel, adding a 1/4" square strip to the LE of each flap (increasing the chord), reducing the tail moment to something like 10.5", moving the leadouts forward and eliminating the turtledeck.

I built one this way with a Fox 35 and it flew like a dream. I've managed to procure another Tutor kit and will be building my second Tutor II version.

For basic aerobatic instruction I'd highly recommend the Brodak Flite Streak. Once you are comfortable with inverted flight and the round manuevers then try a flapped aerobatic trainer such as the Twister - which are readily available.

I'm just about to paint an old kit of the Prowler I've had laying around for many years. It is a foam wing Bob Hunt design. Said to be an excellent flyer.

I also hope to inaugurate a U-Key 15 (Norvel Big Mig .15) this afternoon if I can get the lawn mowed today.

I've had a terrible spring/summer with a death in the family to deal with and a heavy travel schedule. I've yet to fly this year! It is a gorgeous day here in the upper midwest.

SteveMoon · Aug 20, 2001 08:59 PM

RE: Recommendations for profile stunter#18 source
Go for the Twister. It's easy to get, easy to build, flies well, and it's inexpensive. Even without the Fancher mods it will fly well with an OS 40. This is a good plane that is easy and quick to build. Later, Steve