Gieske Nobler vs Nobler

Could anyone tell me what the physical differences are between a Gieske Nobler and a "regular" Nobler is I may seem dumb on this but I havn't flown either and am in the middle of building a Gieske Nobler and it was a question my wife asked me and I realised I had no idea how to answer her, she had been looking through the websites on my computer prior to Christmas with intention of getting me something from one of them hopefully something from one of them is on the way

Keep the faith and keep on flying

The only thing I remember is hearing Bob say that he took the stock Nobler ribs and traced around them with a ball point pen. Then he cut out the new, slightly thicker ribs and used them instead. I don't know if there were any other changes.

Gee whiz, we are talking 35 years ago - I'm glad I can remember anything

OKC & Ron

There were several versions of the Gieseke Nobler. I think the wing he liked best was the 66 version - also used on the 74 version that the Gieseke Nobler kit was produced from. Other version has slightly different moment arms from the flap hinge point to the elevator hinge point and slightly different stab/elevator lengths and areas. Ultra Hobby products produces the kit of the '68 version that plans had been drawn for. I think they needed to be translated from Swedish or Dutch back into English but I am sure that Steve Moon had the plans re-drawn quite well. Of course this is a W/C airplane. At least the 74 version was. Hope this is helpful in answering some basic questions. I'm sure the most knowledgeable people regarding these planes except for Bob himself are Steve Moon and Al Rabe.

LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-03 AT 05:37 PM (CDT)
 
>The only thing I remember is hearing Bob say that he took the stock
>Nobler ribs and traced around them with a ball point pen.

Actually, he called it a "fat" pen (and I think it was a marker, not a ballpoint), increasing the airfoil thickness by about 1/8" all around, total 1/4" from the relatively thin original.

>Then he cut out the new, slightly thicker ribs and used them instead.
>I don't know if there were any other changes.
>
"Tall" tail wheel, ply doublers instead of balsa, larger stab, simpler fuselage, mostly just refinements.

.

Kiwi

In an Australian control line newsletter dated April 1994,there was
a letter to Derek Pickard from Bob Gieseke in Irving,Texas explaining
the differences.To quote Bob,"thicker wing section with seven-eight
flaps,tighter tips,smaller canopy,extended tail wheel and more side
area with a taller square topped rudder". He goes on to say that the
kit items that must be changed (to qualify for Australian nostalgia
stunt)are extending the rudder and removing the wheel covers. Details
were printed in Model Airplane News,April 1969. One point Mr. Gieseke
is very strong on,and that is he never called his plane the "Gieseke
Nobler" as on the kit box. He only ever used the "Nobler" name,and in
the magazine article,its referred to as "Modified Nobler".

Bob Allan

here's three I did long time ago they all were from the T.F. kits

2 blue box (Gieseke)

http://www.builtrightflyright.net/controline/giesekenoble.htm

http://www.builtrightflyright.net/controline/nobler.htm

1 green box (George)I did flatten the Rudder for looks on this one

http://www.builtrightflyright.net/controline/whitenobler.htm

Slightly thicker airfoil.
3/32 leading edge sheeting.
Smaller flaps.
Slightly larger stab and elevator (very slight).
More side area.
Better looking.
Lighter.

So what are the changes that must be made to the Top Flite Gieske kit to make it classic legal?

These are the main things but there are probably more subtle differences.

1. The Rudder must be taller by about 1". Not exacly sure of the amount.

The moment arm must be slightly longer I think. Maybe about 3/32 to 1/4"

The Stab/Elevators must be longer by about 1".

The wing tips should have a sharper radius in the LE and taper moderately to the trailing edge. Not to sure how to explain the difference in the tips here.

When done you will have something that closely resembles the 1968 version that is classic legal and is a kit produced by Ultra Hobby Products. The easy way to make these changes would be to purchase the UHP kit!

When I built my kit, I called Bob and asked what to do to make it
like his '68 Nobler.

What I rememeber was adding an 1/8" to the top and bottom of the fuse,
the wing span in the kit was slightly smaller, and the cowl was wrong in the kit.

I used a drawing that came out in '68 or '69 that showed all the dimensions.

If the TF kit is a permutation of the Classic legal model, wouldn't it be legal in Classic, with a loss of fidelity points?
Sort of like the guy here with wing mounted gear?

See Ya

That guy should lose fidelity points just for that sweater!

In the southeast I don't think judges have been docking many points for fidelity on the Top Flite version, perhaps in recognition that until the UHP kit came out recently, there were no sources for a pre 1970 Geiseke Nobler unless you scratch built it. Accuracy of scratch built G Noblers is relative, also. The plans I used for mine came from Holland and were (I presume) based on measurements/photos of one of the Noblers Bob used in the WC in the sixties. They have many differences from the plans Steve Moon recently drew with the '68 plane sitting in front of him, and thus I would have to conclude that the new plans drawn by Moon are the most accurate. Bottom line is that if I was judging I wouldn't be so hard on the fidelity points for a Geiseke Nobler-there has been some grey areas over the years for the exact example of what one should look like, nor do I think there is any huge aero advantage from the pre 1970 Geiseke to the 1974 TF kit one.

Steve,

I think the largest differences between the 68-69 version and the 74 version is the wingtips, the taller rudder on the 68-69 version, and the 1" longer stab/elevators. The other changes are so minor that I don't think anyone but Bob himself could tell for sure!

I even completed a simi-scale Spinks Akro in 1971 that I had originally started in 1969 that used the 68 Gieseke nobler wing as the basis.

Ron,

Of course I'm not steve, but I can answer your question. You can get a copy of the plans from Steve Moon at Ultra Hobby Products. They have a web site and I presume that you can order a copy online. Also I think they have lazer cut ribs sets for the "G" Nobler too!

Happy new year all!

Steve,
The plans you mentioned drawn by Steve Moon
of the "Gieske Nobler".

Where can I get a set of these????

rny:)

Peabody,

In the spirit of including as much as possible I agree that it should be allowed sans some fidelity points. Or minus some appearance points if fidelity points are not used. If the kat in the picture had some evidence that he had made this modification prior to the cut off date 12-31-69, then I think he would have a case that this is his version of a modified Nobler and be able to obtain those fidelity points.

Jim:
Mayhaps Mr. Hunt will supply us with the info.

See Ya

The guy in this photo is a young Bob Hunt. I took this photo at a New Bedford Raiders meet in March 1967. I still have the negatives. This is the Nobler Bob had that the "lady in the red dress" poked her fingers through the right wing near the tip. Bobs right arm is hiding the patch he made. The meet was at the new Bedford airport.
It is a pretty much stock Nobler as I understood it except for the landing gear in the wings.

I still have the negatives.

Ty, Do you still have the Camera too?

Oh, and check my post in the Classified section!

I would think that one physical difference you would notice immediately is the amount of cash in your wallet from buying a Green box versus a Gieske.

Bill

Nope, that el cheapo Kodak Instamatic I used started to leak light by the 70's, so I got an SLR by Canon. Still have it.