Foam wing classic ship for ST .51?

I'm looking for a fully sheeted foam wing kit for a classic type ship that would be a good platform for the readily available and cost effective chinese ST .51. I'm a sport flier (recycled back into C/L from my last involvement during my teenage years) that is doing most of the scary flying with cheaper, smaller, profile planes. This will mostly be a building exercise for me to learn foam wings and maybe try the silkspan/polycrylic/auto paint finish (read: a few extra ounces). Also, the bigger planes look like too much fun to pass up! Again, I favor the classic styles for this exrcise and will not be competing. I could scratch build a fuse and tail if a kit is not available, but I'd rather do a kit. Your collective insight would be appreciated as I'm not yet familiar with some of the more discrete vendors.

The first that come to mind for sheeted wings and classic kits is Tom Dixon, Walter Umland, Randy Smith. Try them. Brodaks are built up balsa wings and so are RSMs kits. Also try windy Urtnowski and Robin (Bob) Hunt, as he used to sell them and may still do so.
If you are not a member of PAMPA, it is worth it to join just for the magazine (called a news letter). It is filled with adverts for just the stuff you are looking for.

SIG Magnum.

Tom Dixon is the only one that does foam winged kits now, AFAIK, and not cheap. You can get foam cores from Dixon, but also John Duncan, at the second url. Not many are classics, some are fairly close, but even those generally didn't have fully sheeted wings. Maybe they'll meet your requirements, tho. I would only add that a foam wing is an expensive way to go. The SIG Magnum would be ideal, but is not Classic legal, if that matters. Steve

http://members.tripod.com/~TomDixon/tomdixon.htm
http://www.windyurtnowski.com/jdsfoam/

Walter Umland has a foam wing on his Chipmunk kit. It is classic legal. Don't know how the .51 would fit, the prototype had a Brodak 40.
Steve

The Magnum is an excellent choice for a ST 51!
If you want to go with a classic design, and are not worried about competition, then I would get a Shark 45 foam wing from one of the cutters like John Duncan. You will need to scratch the rest of the plane, but it is a simple build, especially if oyu use a foam wing in it. I have seen two of the Shark 45's fly with ST 51's and they were awesome.

Bill <><

Consider UHP out of Texas. They sell both versions of Allen Brickhaus's Buccaneer. The 746 is exactly what you need.

http://www.egpworld.com/ultrahobby/

John,
Yes the Buccaneer 746 WOULD be a very nice ship for the 51.
Great kit, too!
We used that wing on Aaron's Vector II.
Bill <><

Hey Guys
You have forgotten the question regarding CLASSIC airplanes.

The Buccaneer is not a Classic, and I don't think the Magnum is either.

The Chipmonks all had built up wings.

There are only a few foamy Classics at best. The Dixon fake wing looks correct, but is actually a reason to reduce fidelity points.

The ST.51 engine can be shoehorned into many ships, probably with nose mods. Lou Wolgast even had a ST.60 in a Gobbleswantz.

>Hey Guys
> You have forgotten the question regarding CLASSIC
>airplanes.
>
>>
>The Chipmonks all had built up wings.????

Tom, Not the originals - Only the kit versions were built up.

The originals were all foamers. Check Gretz's Chipmunk histsory page.
>

Sorry Jim,
You are correct.

>Hey Guys
> You have forgotten the question regarding CLASSIC
>airplanes.
>
>The Buccaneer is not a Classic, and I don't think the Magnum
>is either.
>

Tom, Actually he asked for "classic type" airplanes. Perhaps I read more into this than was there, but I assumed, (and we know what that does)that as a sprt flier, and not competitive, (at least at this time apparently)he was looking not necessarily for "Classic Legal" competition airplanes, rather classic style airplanes.

So, the reason I mentioned the Buccaneer series. Rather a nice looking, but not flashy, sorta classic, stunt design.

Since the cometition classic cutoff, precedes almost all the designs that used foam wings, I felt that my assumption may have been right. In any case though, He's getting some good suggestions, don't you think?

No argument, some very good designs have been mentioned.

"There are only a few foamy Classics at best. The Dixon fake wing looks correct, but is actually a reason to reduce fidelity points."

If you do a dope finish on the Dixon "fake" wing, nobody is going to be able to tell its a foamie, unless the owner lets it slip.

A chipmunk would be a good canidate for a classic foam wing job, especially if you can get your hands on the Duncan cores that I believe are bigger than the CL-3 cores. Bill Little's suggestion of the Shark 45 is a good one, and I know Dixon sells cores for them, but I would submit that a Shark, even with the foam wing, would be a formidable building job for a guy without alot of building under his belt. The Van Loo chipmunk is a much easier build.

There is a statement signed by Jim Van Loo in the Umland kit that states his first Chipmunk had foam wings. I believe his wre from Mike Stott. The Umland kit foam wings are by Duncan. I have a kit, and have talked with Umland on this.

Thanks to all for the help, your knowledge base and this forum are a great resource for all, especially those of us that have been lost from the sport for so long. It seems that I've bounced around between the virtues of most of your suggestions, each having it's own virtues. If I clarify my thoughts maybe something will fall out, ultimately I'll have to make a decision soon before we get too far into the building season.
1) The Umland Chipmunk makes a lot of sense, (kitted, classic styling) but may be a better candidate for a .46 than the ST .51?
2) The Buccaneer is probably another very sensible choice from a buildability standpoint, though it's an advanced design it's attractive in it's own right (probably flies exceptionally well too).
3) I love the idea of the Shark 45 since my only other full fuse ship was another sweet McFarland design (Jetco Dolphin/Enya .35) which was my best modeling achievement of the early 70's when I was a kid. It's still alive and getting a makeover now. I agree that the Shark fuse may be tough for me to scratch out, and I'm not sure that the wingtips lend themselves to the full sheeted foam wing objective that will best support my finishing plans.
4) Along the lines of the Shark idea, what about a foam wing Skylark? It has the classic form that I'm after, it looks like an easier fuse build, has fairly compact wingtips (I might still need some help on those), should match up to the ST .51 well, and the cores are available.

Any further thoughts before I lose the train of thought to other worthy subjects? Many thanks to all for your efforts.

Clearly, the Magnum is not a CLASSIC ship. If one is trying to compete in Classic, this is important.

As for a foamie that might be a classic ship, I wonder if one of Bob Hunt's early foamies might qualify? Bob pioneered the use of foam wings for stunt ships..

If Classic really isn't THAT important (you are just looking for a less than "modern" looking ship) may I recommend one of Randy Smith's SV series ships? They are great fliers and you can restyle them fairly easily, as I did with my Shogun, which was really an SV-11. It had a Tom Lay-prepared ST .51, which I liked very much..

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"You can lead a horse to water, and if you can get him to float on his back, you've really got something." -Hartley's First Law

TTBOMK, AFAICT, etc...the UHP Buccaneers are NOT foam wing, but the previous incarnation from Custom Model Products (?) did, which is why some of the guys are recommending them. If "Classic Style" is more important than actual Classic Legal Status...the Bob Hunt designed "Saturn" is a beautiful design, and I'm sure a foam core could be found, someplace in Pennsylvania. Plans are available from FM. It would make a very nice combination with the ST G.51. I'm sure I can find a photo in my archives! Steve

>Clearly, the Magnum is not a CLASSIC ship. If one is trying
>to compete in Classic, this is important.
>
>As for a foamie that might be a classic ship, I wonder if
>one of Bob Hunt's early foamies might qualify? Bob pioneered
>the use of foam wings for stunt ships..
>
>If Classic really isn't THAT important (you are just looking
>for a less than "modern" looking ship) may I recommend one
>of Randy Smith's SV series ships? They are great fliers and
>you can restyle them fairly easily, as I did with my
>Shogun, which was really an SV-11. It had a Tom
>Lay-prepared ST .51, which I liked very much..

Thanks guys for the pics of your planes. As they say, a picture says a thousand.......

Larry,
I likely should go with a kit for obvious reasons, and am not worried about classic legal, but a little more classic styling which you applied rather nicely to your plane. I looked at the SV-11 kit at Aero products and the text describes laser cut ribs with no mention at all of the foam core thing. Yet your plane looks sheeted. What am I missing?

Silhavy's Gypsy would make a nice model for the Tigre 51. If you build it a little heavy no problem. Build a heavy Magnum and the 51 combo will loaf through the pattern.

John S.

>Larry,
>I likely should go with a kit for obvious reasons, and am
>not worried about classic legal, but a little more classic
>styling which you applied rather nicely to your plane. I
>looked at the SV-11 kit at Aero products and the text
>describes laser cut ribs with no mention at all of the foam
>core thing. Yet your plane looks sheeted. What am I missing?
>
>Steve B.

Steve,

Just about any wing for the popular stunt designs are available in foam.

The Original SV-11 was a foam wing. I have one that is over ten years old and it has a foam wing from Randy.

Bob Hunt, among others, has always said to just "change the clothes on the mannequin". In other words, get one you like and make it look like you want, with out going over board.
My Geo Juno is actually a Saturn made to look like the Juno. No change in moments, etc., and it's what a LOT of guys did to Noblers in the '60's and called them their own planes. Ah... originiality!

Bill <><

Steve,

At one time you could buy a "short kit" from Randy with the foam wing and stab parts plus a set of plans. I horse traded with Mark Bowen to get the one used for Shogun. The "numbers" of the SV-11 were mostly retained, although I built the fuselage nose in my traditional manner to keep it narrow for a 2" spinner. I don't care for flat bottomed fuselages, so I used a hollowed block, and the nose cowl design method and cooling vents are copied after one of Windy's videos.

If you can't get an SV-11 foam wing from Randy, I have no doubt that they are available from multiple other sources.

I'd point out that the foam wing on Shogun came out 13+ ounces with the flaps and controls, not exactly a lightweight. But very straight and easy to finish, and the SV airfoil was great, IMO. Foamies have their advantages!

Mark has built at least a couple of foam-winged SV-11s with ST .60 power, and they were fine ships. Same observation about the SIG Magnum.

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"I guess I think of lotteries as a tax on the mathematically challenged." -Roger Jones, mathemetician, 1998.

Hi Larry,
I'm pretty sure that randy still has foam cores for the SV series including the 11. My SV 11 came out at 64 oz. total weight, foam wing and stab, and flew outstanding with a ST 51.
Aaron is getting ready to do a SV 25 Satana ("small Samuri cerimonial Sword"), with foam cores from Randy, because it has a sort of Classic look, and the foam will be such a quick build. The pics of Curt C.'s Satana look great. This could also be a great ST 51 plane. Designed for 40 pipe, so it is a smallish design, reduced SV-22 Katana ("large Samuri cerimonial sword"). The SV 24 Shrike is the same wing.
Bill <><