Stuka Stunt Control Line Forum
Archive, 2000–2021 · recovered from the Internet Archive
Forums › Stuka Stunt Main Forum

Fuselage bottom block

Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 14 of 14 known posts recovered

Bob Reeves · Jan 06, 2004 05:52 AM

#0 source
I have always covered the fuselage bottom by cutting sections of 1/4 or 1/8th and installed them cross-grain. The RSM Skylark plans show a 1/4 bottom block installed as one piece. This fuselage doesn't have any kind of ladder crutch and I am thinking a cross grain bottom would give it some additional stiffness.

What are the general thoughts on installing the bottom block?

cyberflyer · Jan 06, 2004 06:52 AM

RE: Skylark fuselage bottom.#1 source
>The RSM Skylark plans show a 1/4 bottom block
>installed as one piece. This fuselage doesn't have
>any kind of ladder crutch and I am thinking a cross
>grain bottom would give it some additional stiffness.

I don't know what general practice is, but I would tend to build a Skylark the way Ed Southwick designed it.

The plans in the December '63 MAN article on the design don't specify the direction of the grain of the bottom block, however it looks like 1/16 sheet to me by comparison to the other parts. Which I would normally install with the grain crosswise.

Southwick is adamant in his article that alignment is crucial to getting a good flying airplane. He goes to some length to draw lines to line up the fuselage at 90 degrees to the spar and zero out all the incidence. (There have been those who later say that a half degree positive incidence on the stab is good, but that's another thread.)

The article says "Plank your fuselage bottom before permanently attaching your stabilizer, as the planking usually twists the fuselage slightly and this twisting will certainly tilt the stabilizer you had aligned so nicely." There is no mention in the article of which direction the grain is on the planking.

The Smith Model Products Skylark kit I have shows a 1/4 inch block of balsa on the bottom of the fuselage from the tail to the gear, the grain going lengthwise. This block is supposed to be hollowed to a 1/8th thickness. There is a somewhat cryptic note on the plans. A demarkation line about an inch forward of the trailing edge is drawn just below the bottom of the fuselage block. An arrow pointing aft is labeled "Flat" and an arrow pointing forward is labeled "Curved". Which plane is curved forward of this line is not made clear.

I'm given to understand the SMP kit was produced with Ed's approval, so I am assuming the bottom fuselage block--similar to the one you describe for the RSM kit--is the construction method he designed.

For what that is all worth.

My Tom Lay prepared ST .46 arrived today, complete with the Plasma/Ceramic piston/liner pair from Tony in OZ. I've got a virgin Froom 2 inch needle nose spinner set aside for the project so I'm about ready to go when the time comes.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Cy.

The Cat Whisperer

Bob Reeves · Jan 06, 2004 08:00 AM

RE: Skylark fuselage bottom.#3 source
Ya, I also have a Smith Skylark kit plus two Sterling kits and have been comparing the 3 as I build the RSM version. All 3 have differences in construction and with Ed gone it's difficult to ask how his was originally built.

A few examples, the RSM kit doesn't show a rib half way out on the wing tips but the other two kits have the rib. All the pictures I have seen of early Skylarks have a built up rudder like the Sterling kit but the RSM and Smith kits have a solid rudder. The Sterling kit has a 3/32 fuselage bottom cross grain and the other two have 1/4 hollowed bottoms. Ed approved all 3 kits so one can only assume all 3 were more or less correct at the time they were produced.

I am going to add the rib in the wing tips and have built up the rudder like the Sterling kit. I also air foiled the rudder as in the Sterling and Smith kits, assuming the period rudder was air foiled, not symmetrical like the RSM kit. This will probably make trimming a bit harder but I am really trying to stay true to the original design (at least as far as outward appearance is concerned).

Sure wished Ed was still around...

billbyles · Jan 06, 2004 07:02 PM

RE: Skylark fuselage bottom.#8 source
>Ya, I also have a Smith Skylark kit plus two Sterling kits
>and have been comparing the 3 as I build the RSM version.
>All 3 have differences in construction and with Ed gone it's
>difficult to ask how his was originally built.
>
>A few examples, the RSM kit doesn't show a rib half way out
>on the wing tips but the other two kits have the rib. All
>the pictures I have seen of early Skylarks have a built up
>rudder like the Sterling kit but the RSM and Smith kits have
>a solid rudder. The Sterling kit has a 3/32 fuselage bottom
>cross grain and the other two have 1/4 hollowed bottoms. Ed
>approved all 3 kits so one can only assume all 3 were more
>or less correct at the time they were produced.
>
>I am going to add the rib in the wing tips and have built up
>the rudder like the Sterling kit. I also air foiled the
>rudder as in the Sterling and Smith kits, assuming the
>period rudder was air foiled, not symmetrical like the RSM
>kit. This will probably make trimming a bit harder but I am
>really trying to stay true to the original design (at least
>as far as outward appearance is concerned).
>
>Sure wished Ed was still around...


Bob,

Ed planked the bottom of his Skylarks with a hollowed 1/4", 5lb., C-grain sheet. He built all of his airplanes from the beginning (1950's)with a solid 3/8" thick fin/rudder, airfoiled on the inboard side. He was adamant about installing the bottom planking prior to installing the stab as the planking will usually induce a slight twist in the fuselage.

Ed was not happy with the Sterling kit as it was not produced per the plans that Ed approved over a dinner with Ed Manulkin of Sterling. Many things were changed on the kit without Ed's approval to make it more convenient for Sterling to produce it.

The Smith and RSM kits of the Skylark were produced as Ed approved them.



Bill Byles

Bob Reeves · Jan 07, 2004 03:34 AM

RE: Skylark fuselage bottom.#10 source
Thanks Bill,

This helps allot. Guess I will skin my already built up rudder so it will look like a solid chunk of wood

FET · Jan 07, 2004 04:22 AM

RE: Skylark fuselage bottom.#11 source
Are you an insomniac? I'm at work.

Bob Reeves · Jan 07, 2004 12:17 PM

RE: Skylark fuselage bottom.#12 source
>Are you an insomniac? I'm at work.

Naw, just an early bird, I like to tinker in the mornings before the rest of the world starts bugging me.

Ron King · Jan 06, 2004 06:56 AM

#2 source
Good question. I think the one piece bottom skin with the grain running longitudinally is a construction simplification.

I grew up installing the grain crosswise, but I have seen no engineering studies that provide any conclusive evidence for one type of construction over the other. I'm sure they exist, but I never got into torsional rigidity when I worked for a structural engineering firm. (I was the Diving Supervisor.)

Unless it's a bottom block that should be hollowed out, I still cut and glue the skin crosswise.

Ron King

Excellence is born of preparation, dedication, focus, and tenacity.
Compromise on any of these and you become average.

Bill Little · Jan 06, 2004 08:50 AM

#4 source
Hi Bob,
I would drop a note to Bill Byles. He is the resident expert on Ed's planes.
I don't have my plans available here, so I can't tell you what Ed's 56" ws plane did for a fuse bottom, but Bill can set you straight!
I plan to build mine this year and use a ST 46 from Tom Lay.
Good Luck, I think it is a beautiful plane!
Bill <><


Disclaimer: I am neither a NATS Champion, engine reworker, engine producer, column writer, Hobby Shop owner, *rockeet* scientist, nor otherwise. Just an old Advanced flier.

cyberflyer · Jan 06, 2004 03:58 PM

Skylarks#7 source

>I plan to build mine this year and use a ST 46 from Tom Lay.
>Bill

My planned set-up as well.

Hmm.

Maybe at VSC 2K5 we could have three of them flying.

Hmmmmm.

Formation syncronized acro anyone?

Cy

The Cat Whisperer

Bill Little · Jan 06, 2004 08:01 PM

RE: Skylarks#9 source
Cy,
I'm afgraid that it will be VSC 2K8 before I can make it! Retirement will come about then, and as soon as it does, I am heading to Tucson for the "ingathering"!
Should have the 56" Skylark cranking it out pretty good by then.
Bill <><


Disclaimer: I am neither a NATS Champion, engine reworker, engine producer, column writer, Hobby Shop owner, *rockeet* scientist, nor otherwise. Just an old Advanced flier.

ferocious · Jan 06, 2004 10:34 AM

#5 source
If you put the bottom grain crosswise when your helper grabs the rear of the fuse he won't put his finger through it. Then you can use 1/16 in. sheet safely and save some weight in the tail. Putting the bottom grain lengthwise would slightly stiffen the rear of the fuse, since balsa is a lot stiffer with the grain than cross grain.

Phil C

Jim Pollock · Jan 06, 2004 10:41 AM

#6 source
Bob,

Just use a 1/16" ladder crutch in the aft part of the fuselage and then it doesn't matter how you orient the blocks. The ladder crutch will create the stiffness needed. Call Tom Morris, he can give you an idea how to do the ladder crutch. He does then on his planes so that he can use 1/16" sides. Give him a call!

Jim Pollock

Currell · Jan 08, 2004 11:04 AM

#13 source
I doubt if the grain direction on a Skylark bottom block matters that much, rigidity wise. Choose one, and forget about it.

Currell