Neal's New ARF Nobler

My new ARF Nobler #2 OS Max 35 S by GMA with Art's muffler , and many other changes. Weight is 44 OZ . See Ya Neal:)

I like the looks. Did you peel the whole thing or just add the white?

>I like the looks. Did you peel the whole thing or just add
>the white?
>
>Chris

Its just a stock Nobler Monocote job , I masked off the numbers and scalops and painted with white Rustoleum, all done while it was apart. Used Contact Paper Book Cover for the masking and a card stock pattern to get all sides the same. I also changed my Flite Streak ARF to Red White AND Blue the same way .

Neal; when are you coming down to our field and flying it??

Jack

Jack Weston

>Neal; when are you coming down to our field and flying it??
>
>Jack

I'm going to guess when it's above 10 degrees!!

Thats is a sweet finish! Over the stock Monocote!? Please tell more! suface prep, and any coating? Why Rustoleum, better flex when dry? does it crack after a while? I'm beginning construction on my Nobler ARF, and I was just gonna live with the stock blue finish till I crashed it. I see now I dont have to. What a face lift, good job...........

>Thats is a sweet finish! Over the stock Monocote!? Please
>tell more! suface prep, and any coating? Why Rustoleum,
>better flex when dry? does it crack after a while? I'm
>beginning construction on my Nobler ARF, and I was just
>gonna live with the stock blue finish till I crashed it. I
>see now I dont have to. What a face lift, good
>job...........

Just went over the monocote with 00 steel wool very lightly and painted. The rustoleum holds up , my flite streak
has over a hundred flights and the only wear to the rustoleum is at the sharp edges ,it showes a little black line from where I carry the plane, its not just another red white and black flite streak.. With painted monocote the edges seem to stay stuck, I will know after the 04 season as I only put one flight on it and that was New Years Day( NOBLER #2).The Rustoleum I use is Premium Gloss Protective Enamel. This is not the first time I used Rustoleum, but It is the first time I used Contact Book Cover for masking. The only problem is its clear and a little hard to see, also the rustoleum does'nt melt the contact like laquer products. Also I use MAGUIARS QUIK DETALIER to clean and polish the Monocote. See Ya NEAL:)

Thanks Neal, I'm gonna do it. I'll have to figure out a different scheme than yours tho, I always liked checker board patterns. I just hope mine turns out as nice as yours. Happy flying........

I had heard that the "second generation" afstreaks were NOT MONOCOAT, but something a bit less satisfactory? A couple have pealed the covering off and applied real stuff?

See Ya

Here is Neal's first Nobler ARF

See Ya

Neal did a really neat job with his ARF Nobler, but I continue to think that for those who are comfortable with MonoKote, it is possible to do the same sort of thing with film. Less mess, no masking, lighter (re-)finished weight.

Using Neal's model as the example, a template which exactly matches the painted white could be taped in place and used as a guide to cut the blue Monokote. A larger piece of white MonoKote could then be slipped *under* the remaining stock covering, blue ironed to white, white then shrunk and ironed to structure.

Sure, the scallop ends would be a little fiddly to get right, and very small "patches" of clear MonoKote would ultimately be required on the pointy ends in order to keep them in place. But it could be done, and without much effort.

There was mention of a red, white and blue ARF Flite Streak and my second ARF FS was done in this color combination, although I pulled all the black film from the model and then ironed blue MonoKote in its place. Looks good, and as I tell all the locals, GMA would have liked it. A lot.

There are tricks to using regular monokote over monokote for trim. I've seen suggestions that areas were somehow covered with two dissimilar sheets somehow magically joined on their edges (Harry Higley?).

My own experience was putting simple narrow trim strips of monokote in various colors. But even these want to develop air bubbles. If you can hold the strips up off the surface and progressively iron from the center outward, you can avoid many bubbles but stretching occurs. So people just pop tiny holes to release the trapped air.

[photo not recovered: 4003550543674ba7.jpg]
Early Mo'Best, black K&B epoxy with monokote wings, and monokote strip trim scheme..

I've heard about techniques involving soapy water to place the pieces and allow to dry, then use an iron to secure edges. Never tried 'em.

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"Great innovations should not be forced on slender majorities." -Thomas Jefferson

>There are tricks to using regular monokote over monokote for
>trim. I've seen suggestions that areas were somehow covered
>with two dissimilar sheets somehow magically joined on their
>edges (Harry Higley?).
>
>My own experience was putting simple narrow trim strips of
>monokote in various colors. But even these want to develop
>air bubbles. If you can hold the strips up off the surface
>and progressively iron from the center outward, you can
>avoid many bubbles but stretching occurs. So people just pop
>tiny holes to release the trapped air.
>
>I've heard about techniques involving soapy water to place
>the pieces and allow to dry, then use an iron to secure
>edges. Never tried 'em.
>
>[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]
>
>"Great innovations should not be forced on slender
>majorities." -Thomas Jefferson

Larry,

While I'm pretty sure you understood, I want to make it clear that my suggestion is to place the white MonoKote panels--to continue with Neal's ARF as the example--*under* the factory-applied covering. It would be kinda trick, the forward laps would be oriented properly, less concern with a dark blue over white than the other way 'round.

Multiple piece panels can indeed be assembled on glass (MonoKote does not stick to glass) and then put on model. Yep, Higley's book shows exactly how to do it, but a lap joint is involved even if it is only a lap of 1/16" for the brave, 1/8" and up for us normal folk.

In my experience, the soapy water trick is only used for sticky-backed trim, itself a substandard material.

I had heard that the "second generation" afstreaks were NOT MONOCOAT, but something a bit less satisfactory? A couple have pealed the covering off and applied real stuff?
See Ya

Peabody

You've got to hand it to Peabody. Given enough blather spread far and wide, even he can get it right once in a great while.

It is true, ARF Flite Streaks no longer are covered in MONOCOAT. But then again, they never were covered in this material.

But let's step back: Hobbico has MonoKote as a proprietary product. They advertise the CL ARFs as being covered in MonoKote. Both of my ARF FSs are in fact covered in MonoKote.

And now, well into production, ads all over the place, catalogs printed for 2004, they have switched to another material?

Not believable, and as usual with Peabody, the hidden agenda is not so well hidden.

Actually, and this may be the basis for the alledged rumor to which Peabody alludes, I have heard the Brodak ARFs will not be covered in MonoKote, although the actual material to be used does not seem to be known by any of my sources, although to my mind this might mean the ARCs will be the favored pieces.

Your ol buddy Bob Z is running a poll right now on if the ARC is a desirable product

Couldn't help it my mouse just scooted over and clicked on the clown face all by itself...

LAST EDITED ON Jan-13-04 AT 02:47 PM (CDT)
 
>Your ol buddy Bob Z is running a poll right now on if the
>ARC is a desirable product
>
>Couldn't help it my mouse just scooted over and clicked on
>the clown face all by itself...

Bob,

It's reassuring to know that John has the very best people available figuring out how to market the upcoming ARFs.

Are you sure the poll doesn't involve a petition designed to dictate editorial policy for Stunt News?

Actually, I'm betting on the boys coming up hard against the ARCs costing very nearly as much as ARFs, leading to an interesting level of pricing, one compared to the other. Uh, that would be landed cost, incidentally; ARFs and ARCs will cost exactly the same to ship, assuming normal use of containers for the product.

Dan

An edit because I expect you to quickly gain total control over that mouse of yours.

>>Your ol buddy Bob Z is running a poll right now on if the
>>ARC is a desirable product
>>
>>Couldn't help it my mouse just scooted over and clicked on
>>the clown face all by itself...
>
>
>Bob,
>
>It's reassuring to know that John has the very best people
>available figuring out how to market the upcoming ARFs.
>
>Are you sure the poll doesn't involve a petition designed to
>dictate editorial policy for Stunt News?
>
>Actually, I'm betting on the boys coming up hard against the
>ARCs costing very nearly as much as ARFs, leading to an
>interesting level of pricing, one compared to the other. Uh,
>that would be landed cost, incidentally; ARFs and ARCs will
>cost exactly the same to ship, assuming normal use of
>containers for the product.
>
>Dan
>
>An edit because I expect you to quickly gain total control
>over that mouse of yours.

Dirt,

Near as I could tell it took three days into the new year for the Editorial Policy at S.N. to weather vane in the expected direction. Q'uelle surprise, huh.

I guess I don't get it (don't have SN either yet).

I think Neal's Nobler looks pretty neat, although mine is still blue. I have customized mine with some clear scotch packing tape on the rudder. It didn't quite clear the ground during an outside loop at the Peoria Contest last summer during my first flight. Flew perfectly fine for the second flight with the rudder CA'd onto the fuse and the tape holding the covering together.

I guess I like ARF's rather than ARCS, simply because if I wanted to go through the whole covering business, I would rather do it on my own-built plane, so at least I could get some appearance points.

But it has also become abundantly clear that other folks really like to customize their planes, whether it is an ARF or not. I am guessing the John B. is interested in selling to all comers, so why not?

What gives Dirt when your buddies schill and advertise on stuntworks you wax poetic, though the reasoning often escapes me. Whatever the covering on the Brodak new ARF it looks good as Monokote and appears it will be serviceable. I saw the Oriental and Cardinal at Bob Zambelli's. The pictures in his email also show this well enough (Bob Zambelli has an informational email sent out to about 100 flyers interested in 4 strokes.) The option of having an uncovered model (ARC) has been discussed by many and probably will be provided by Brodak. What's the beef with a controline enthusiast getting into the ARF fly market? Top Flight (or Great Planes) isn't into our end of the hobby much. This time around (with the Brodak ARFs) I expect the controls and hinges won't pull out and be stiff.

I have a friend who builds rc and he uses the soapy water method with regular monokote ( not the trim } does beautiful work. I have even done a little myself i was suprised how easy it was.

leon99

Neal,

She looks great, good luck with her. Hope to see you soon. Maybe at the swap meet or our banquet???

Mary

P.S. Mike and Jack- I'd venture to say Neal is smarter than us, he'll wait until it's 22 degrees!!!

What gives Dirt when your buddies schill and advertise on stuntworks you wax poetic, though the reasoning often escapes me. Whatever the covering on the Brodak new ARF it looks good as Monokote and appears it will be serviceable. I saw the Oriental and Cardinal at Bob Zambelli's. The pictures in his email also show this well enough (Bob Zambelli has an informational email sent out to about 100 flyers interested in 4 strokes.) The option of having an uncovered model (ARC) has been discussed by many and probably will be provided by Brodak. What's the beef with a controline enthusiast getting into the ARF fly market? Top Flight (or Great Planes) isn't into our end of the hobby much. This time around (with the Brodak ARFs) I expect the controls and hinges won't pull out and be stiff.
D

Dennis,

Assuming you are talking about Ted and his hard-point handles, you should know that I first designed my own handles, used them for several years, bought a single unit from Ted with the intention of copying it or incorporating the best ideas into my own handles. Only to come up against a real serious problem: For my tastes, my needs and my applications, Ted has done a better job than I am capable of, so I bought more and told my friends of my experiences.

If the reasoning escapes you, well it just escapes you and there is nothing I can do about it.

Personally, I think having access to ARC models is a good idea for me the consumer.

And I certainly have no "beef" with any individual--CL enthusiast or not-- or any company getting into the ARF market. Someone may have told you that, but it certainly is not true, nor do any of my comments on the subject even hint at such an attitude.

As to differences in the specifications of Hobbico- or Brodak-sourced ARFs, the superiority of one over the other, perceived value ditto, we will see. At this point in time, no one knows, although I will be prefectly happy if Brodak can merely deliver comparable equipment at the same price point.

Let's see. A hundred bucks plus shipping. Do I buy a Nobler ARF or an Oriental ARF? Going to be a tough decision, that's a fact.

Decision, we don't need no stinkeen decision. Buy both! Always wanted to know how they compared anyway, and have more engines than planes (who doesn't (except Billy W, perhaps).

Dirt, you mean no irony then in talking about Zambelli and Peabody being the "best people" to do marketing or Ted's dig at the weather vane of SN editorial policy. I guess Ted refers to John Brodak mentioning the role of ARF in controline stunt. I must have a bad ear.

I'm still struck dumb by a $200 (or more) Fox35 stuffed with parts including a $45 dollar crank. I can understand the machining for tolerances, maybe, but... (struck dumb again.)

Ted's handle looks great. Saw one like it in San Diego last summer.

My point is there is a lot of entrepreneurial energy in Controline Stunt. Amazing amount considering the size of our town. (Some rivalry and jealousy? Naw.)

Why be snide about Brodak adding to the ARF ARFs, (I mean the irony in the early part of the post string) specially since Dirty Dan went on and on about his ARF ARF flite streak in SN. (Same issue that John Brodak talked about the logic of the ARF market).

>Ted's handle looks great. Saw one like it in San Diego last
>summer.

Almost certainly built from a drawing of Ted's handle I sent to Dave Sabon last year. He's a convert!

Brett,

Got my Precision Pro handle and finished it - then set it up with the same spacing as on my Bordak modified hard point handle, well,the Precision Pro handle was way more sensitive, so I cut down the spacing until it was perfect! Now all I have to get done before the Nationals is put a wart on the outboard flap, get the tip weight just right, add a little trim to confuse the appearance judges, ha like it really would. Then, I should fly about 500 coached practice flights. Hmmm, if I do that then I probably should enter open instead of advanced in 04, but that really depends on me!

Yes it was Dave. Hy Dave! He and his friends were great hosts. Allowing me to fly their streak over and over, even though I nearly dorked it about five times.(The Enya kept cutting out when I got violent.) I was totally irresponsible with someone else's property. Lotsa fun.

Dave was up front about the handle being Ted's design.

Dirt, you mean no irony then in talking about Zambelli and Peabody being the "best people" to do marketing or Ted's dig at the weather vane of SN editorial policy. I guess Ted refers to John Brodak mentioning the role of ARF in controline stunt. I must have a bad ear.
I'm still struck dumb by a $200 (or more) Fox35 stuffed with parts including a $45 dollar crank. I can understand the machining for tolerances, maybe, but... (struck dumb again.)

Ted's handle looks great. Saw one like it in San Diego last summer.

My point is there is a lot of entrepreneurial energy in Controline Stunt. Amazing amount considering the size of our town. (Some rivalry and jealousy? Naw.)

Why be snide about Brodak adding to the ARF ARFs, (I mean the irony in the early part of the post string) specially since Dirty Dan went on and on about his ARF ARF flite streak in SN. (Same issue that John Brodak talked about the logic of the ARF market).

D

Dennis,

There is no real problem here, even if you wish to create one out of thin air. And are assumed to be getting some real bad advice. I will try again.

Of course I was being ironic; while I am sure there are worse people to have marketing a CL ARF or ARC, it is hard to imagine the pairing of Zambelli (whom I mentioned indirectly) and Peabody (who I did not mention at all) being any more incompetent for the assumed task. Sorry if this upsets you; I merely see it as fact.

Ted's mention of SN editorial policy was so oblique as to not be understandable. And I told him that.

While I will not speak for Ted, I have since read current Stunt News, wherein a man who has a commercial interest in seeing ARFs (and ARCs) be well received has put on a different hat and as his very first order of business strongly suggests we *do something* as to the B.O.M. rule which very mildly penalizes those flying models they did not build and so can be construed to mean demand for ARFs and ARCs is reduced somewhat.

I am not impressed. In my world the appearance of a conflict of interest nets out to *exactly* being, in fact, a conflict of interest.

I am willing to give John a momentary pass on this; but he needs to understand that this sort of thing cannot happen.

Agreed, Fox 35s stuffed full of high-zoot trick parts is pretty funny, and I have mentioned this numerous times. There is no monetary sense to it, quite frankly, although some of us continue to like the Fox 35 and the way it runs. Besides, in my case anyway, having period-correct motors in my OTS and Classic models adds to the fun of building, practicing and competing.

It's a romantic attitude, an effort to recreate older times, all of which I missed the first time through. Such is not supposed to be subject to analysis, especially as the boogers come through quickly...

I have not been snide or demeaning or negative in any way when it comes to Brodak or anybody else getting into the ARF business; I am a *fan* of ARFs, which is exactly why I wrote about them. The source of said ARFs is hardly a concern of mine.

LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-04 AT 00:38 AM (CDT)
 
Thanks Dirty Dan for your reasoned response to my shots. So here's a thumbnail of where I'm coming from. Since a few general issues concerning our hobby are involved, I'll put this on the forum. Some may get bored, no doubt they'll roll past.

I don't know that Bob Zambelli per se is doing any marketing for John in a formal way. On payroll. In any case his poll was on his his own email list and not here or in SN. I think the issue of a covered or uncovered ARF is obviously a valid useful choice. As you no doubt agree. Bob has been evaluating an early version of the Oriental and Cardinal and improving the product, fixing the controls etc. Definitely beneficial for those buying these planes. Saving some of the bother now involved with the Great Planes ARFs. Bob's got a house full of neat models that show great building skill , an aesthetic eye and an original choice of subject. A sport scale Cherokee (that does the pattern) based on his own private plane and a big light Staggerwing are among his creations. These models and many others he has built educate me as I look at them. As far as evaluating ARFs and improving them, he's got the skill to do so.

You are snide when mentioning Bob and Peabody, aren't you? Seem to have a beef or is it just a fun loving needle. I am not knowledgeable about your personal history with these guys, but the mere mention of their names seems to trigger you. Doubt that Bob or Peabody care. Peabody's probably laughing. I see Bob though on many thursdays at our informal club get togethers, we often fly together and I feel loyal. But that's it, won't mention this anymore.

If the BOM ruler was done away with, I think it would be a great loss. For me the unique character of American Stunt is this almost contradictory combo of building with craft and originality (well at least craft) and flying. I think that's a big factor in the art of the event. A legit competitor must have these different almost divergent skills. Hope it isn't too much for people when I refer to stunt as an art form, because I honestly think it is. In one of my other lives, I have a lot of experience practicing an art form. So I am comparing stunt to another area that is clearly an official art form.

John Brodak is an interesting guy. A brilliant publicist? To me he's a remarkable business man who makes the Hobby I enjoy easier for me to enjoy. Sure there's a potential conflict of interest with PAMPA, we'll see how that plays out.

Starting to get it sort of a little bit about that $200 fox.

What's a booger?

> Sure there's a potential
>conflict of interest with PAMPA, we'll see how that plays
>out.

It's not "potential", it's definitively a conflict of interest, as pure as can be imagined. It's not debatable.

That's not to say it's a problem. It's would only become a problem if John were to use his influence as PAMPA president to exert undue influence on the CB or other governing or rule-making bodies or manipulate the Contest Board or the Competition Committee membership. He has already sent out a message indicating that he does not plan to alter the current makeup of these committees or to fiddle with competition matters, which should pretty well make the entire thing a non-issue, at least for me.

Windy, as a supplier and also a PAMPA EC member, has the same conflict, and it has never been a problem as far as I can tell.

Of course, I would expect a man of honor to recuse himself from any votes, debates, etc. that lead to a decision on the topics in which he has a conflict. That's how this sort of thing is handled in business, politics (at least by the 3 remaining honorable politicians, if you could find them), and other professional situations, and I think it applies equally here.

He's entitled to his opinion, and of course he can express it. I get the impression that he may not fully understand the current situation,maybe because of his lack of experience with competition matters. Frankly, many of the BOM or Not debates here are based on the erroneous notion that ARFs/RTFs/OPPs are not allowed or encouraged, and most of us here OUGHT TO know better.

Of course, the entire subject is moot until the next rules cycle that begins in 2005, with implementation in 2008 at the earliest.

>I'm sure the membership weighed this when they elected
>him 2 to 1.

I sincerely doubt it. You underestimate the power of name recognition, and the "campaign letter" (that was later largely retracted, but too late and too privately to matter for the election) definitely didn't prove to be a net vote-getter in my area, at least. I am still getting complaints about it, most of which can't be printed in polite society. And certainly, based on the 2 weeks of messages since SN came out, there isn't a lot of support in District 10 for getting rid of the BOM - just like the last 50 times we talked about it. Let's say I have had lots of opportunities to discuss it with various PAMPA members!

Brett,
Cut my message down about ten minutes after I posted it. See you read it in full. Was about to cut out another paragraph. Will leave it now. On to the next.

What's a booger?

>Cut my message down about ten minutes after I posted it. See
>you read it in full. Was about to cut out another paragraph.
>Will leave it now. On to the next.

Hey, I read everybody, pretty much. You have some excellent points and observations. I merely wanted to emphasize that "conflict of interest" is not a dirty word (well, phrase), and doesn't have to have a perjorative intent. Having a conflict doesn't necessarily imply a problem. It's how the conflict is handled that defines whether it's a problem or not.

I have nothing but positive expectations that this will be handled in a manner that will be satisfactory to all concerned.

Attention: Lots of snipping took place...

You are snide when mentioning Bob and Peabody, aren't you?

Starting to get it sort of a little bit about that $200 fox.

What's a booger?

D

Dennis,

Two years ago I wrote a couple articles about four-stroke motors for PA; these were published in Stunt News. Bob Zambelli took exception to these articles, especially the first one. He suffered the misfortune of assuming the articles were about him, when they were clearly about four-strokes, their application to PA.

Thinking he was safe in doing so, Bob went on the attack, posting a hugely erroneous missive on this site, a piece which could have passed for humor had it not been very clear he was serious. I don't believe we have seen the likes of his ranting since, no matter the source. Unfortunately for Bob, this was mentioned to me, for the very first time in my life I entered the internet world.

While I took the high road, what eventually became apparent was that intellectually Bob came to a gun fight while armed with a knife.

There's more to the story, but I have given you the beginning.

As to Peabody, he is indeed a problem. In very specific ways that I have chosen to (pretty much) keep to myself in the form of what I call a "Peabody File" in my home office filing cabinet.

Do I play "Whack-A-Mole" with both of these guys? You bet. Although, in fairness to myself, there are times when my response is, "Gee, this is just too easy!" and I place one or the both of them on my "Catch and Release" list for a day or so.

If you are beginning to "get it," even a little bit when it comes to pricey Fox 35s, you are just as close to losing your grip on reality as I am.

For what it's worth, a substantial number of people do not like even the very best Fox 35s. On the other hand, a very high percentage of these folk have never owned and operated a top-line Fox 35. Such a piece installed in the appropriate airplane--an Oriental being my current choice for Classic--is very enjoyable, rarely frustrating. And period-correct, in the past this not being a factor of significance to me, but having become more so over the past couple years.

Surely you jest in your question about boogers. I won't go there. Well, at least not unless by special request.

Dennis,

I intentionally blew off any direct reference to Zambelli's reponse to my Stunt News article on four-strokes, assuming it had not survived.

However, in doing a search for "Stunt News Article" under the limiter to "Subject" matter and polling archived threads, son of a gun, there it still is.

LAST EDITED ON Jan-21-04 AT 03:31 AM (CDT)
 
Didn't realize the pond scum wars had been so personal and public. I had just joined the Philly Flyers club two years ago when it broke. (Only a lowly retread.) There was fussing and fuming over pizza and cokes. Much went past me. Couldn't work myself into the proper mood to share the rant and rage. Also, Saito did come out with a 40. One thing Bob feared, if I remember correctly, was that your vilification of 4 strokes ( apparently tongue in cheek, since I gather you fly them and dig them) would prevent Saito's engineering and release of that engine. Too bad the pond scum wars still reverberate in a personal way. Will think a bit on the human condition as I sand out the fuse of the halfway Fancherized Twister I'm finishing.

Bob pissed me off too when he laughed at the Comp TAs on my 1980 malibu station wagon. Told him that it handled and ran pretty well, pointing out the big sway bars and VAN shocks, corvette engine and 700r4 trans-- but Bob's dismissive smile simply broadened. Was it the badly oxidized MAACO paint, now a flat military camouflage Green? NAW. I felt my point made, however, when he declined to street race me with his pristine yellow 67 Ferrari. Gotcha Bob!

Hope Peabody's file doesn't include his email jokes. A friend forwards these to me. Truly damning stuff. Definitely a person of questionable character.

Do you whack a mole what with stick, two by four, 22 or 45? Don't know anything about mole whacking. In NYC where I grew up the flora and fauna featured rats, cats, dogs and us. We had trees, grass and such. Wasn't really sure they grew though. Somehow they felt built up and stuck there like the buildings.

My wife explained Booooooger was pronounce buhgah. Oh. She also said booger was the correct spelling. Gritting my teeth, coulda looked in the dictionary. Your correct use of the English language baffled me for a day or two. Sneaky move.

Happy New Year.

> One thing Bob feared, if
>I remember correctly, was that your vilification of 4
>strokes ( apparently tongue in cheek, since I gather you fly
>them and dig them) would prevent Saito's engineering and
>release of that engine

THIS was the big problem? Why does Saito care what Dirty Dan writes, in obvious jest, into an obscure specialist newsletter to 2000 people? Why does any private individual care whether Saito puts out a 40, or not? Why would a major hobby manufacturer targeting a new product to 300,000 R/C sport fliers wordwide give a flying rodent's posterior whether they'll sell another 150 engines to an fringe group? More to the point, this constitutes a crisis that had grown men sending toxic hate mail flying back and forth for 2 years and counting?

I think I need to go take some aspirin, I'm getting a migraine.

Brett "Oy Vey!" Buck

Yeah, really, time to laugh about it. The sport RC market is really that large?

>Yeah, really, time to laugh about it.

I don't know whether to laugh, or cry. You have no idea.

>The sport RC market is
>really that large?

I think that's in the ballpark.

>> One thing Bob feared, if
>>I remember correctly, was that your vilification of 4
>>strokes ( apparently tongue in cheek, since I gather you fly
>>them and dig them) would prevent Saito's engineering and
>>release of that engine

> I think I need to go take some aspirin, I'm getting a
>migraine.

The real truth is that all of these Jap engines have been released in Japan long before they ever get here. Saito, OS Max, and all the rest simply release them to the USA for the money. They would sell the here regardless of what ANYONE would say. They want the money.

And CLPA is a popcorn burp compared to RC...

Dennis,

I had owned a Saito 56 for several months prior to even beginning to write about them. In addition, I had over the years spent a goodly amount of time playing with them over at the RC field, both with sport and RC Pattern models.

The Saito 56 proved to be a pretty good powerplant in many ways and is still bolted into my first Impact. The second Impact has a Saito 72 installed, although flight testing has not progressed much beyond the "It looks straight, the engine runs and everything else is a mess," stage. I am hoping the latter model/engine combination will prove better than the former, but it's an open issue at this time.

The "Pond Scum" wars, if that is what they truly are, are pretty much a one-sided issue. In the NW we take it as a joke, "pond scum" almost immediately having been adopted as slang for any four-stroke engine, Bruce Hunt quickly printing up some pretty cool "Powered by Pond Scum" stickies for my models.

As to the toxic e-mails Brett mentions going back and forth, for example, I personally **never** participated in this activity, which is just one of the reasons I say it was (is?) a one-sided issue. Zambelli, Peabody and Crowd went ballistic, you witnessed it, I was the focal point for this treatment, yet beyond input here, a public forum containing a record of what I said and Stunt News ditto, my friends and I simply went on flying and enjoying ourselves.

The only regret I have is that no one furnished to me a copy of the petition being circulated primarily in your area, this piece designed to get the BBS column kicked out of Stunt News. Hey, I told the boys I would sign it myself, and would have done so just for the sheer nonsense of it. Alas, no petition was forthcoming...

I do want to make it clear that, in my view, this convoluted controversy, assuming it can even be called that, is a personal issue **only** in that Zambelli and Peabody, along with a *very* few others, put their character and personal conduct on the line.

And so it is that each of us can look at them through the prism of a drawn-out offensive against someone who never was fighting them, a mere one or two articles in a newsletter containing what the editor deemed in some cases to be "colorful" language.

Based upon their actions I have indeed made judgments. Others are free to agree or disagree.

As to the Saito 40 and the BBS column, the entire issue was merely a straw man being propped up, hammered down. What Zambelli did not know at the time is that the founder of Horizon Hobbies, importers of the Saito line, and I go back quite a few years. To back up what Brett says as to the insignificance of what we are doing versus the RC crowd, in the midst of this mind-altering raging in your back yard I called Horizon with some specific questions about the Saito 56, the results of this conversation put forth in Stunt News.

I did not mention the supposed controversy to Eric, and he did not bring it up. Which he would have done forthwith if it were an issue worth his knowing about. Engine manufacturers and/or importers can be really testy about negative publicity, John Mahoney (World Engines) years ago threatened to sue both me personally and Model Builder magazine following some whining on my part that we couldn't seem to get replacement cranks for our ST 35 Combat motors.

Another (mildly) amusing note is that about 8 months I became a member of the Philly Flyers! Well, not really. But I've got a T-shirt from this club. A new friend mailed it to me with a note saying that having seen at least some of the stuff going on in your area he was disappointed to find that he actually owned such a shirt and was sending it to me assuming I could find a good use for it. Which I am working on.

And a very Happy New Year to you and your wife!

Dan,

Thanks for the fill in of information. Think I'll read a book tonight or build. Weather keep you from flying up there?

LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-04 AT 08:21 PM (CDT)
 
Flew my new ARF Nobler on Monday MARCH 1, Boy what a great flyer , changed the leadouts to adjustable and added a weight box the most important change was the front leadout is up , Robert Lampione suggested this change and what a difference. It turns insides and outsides equally , and that GMA OS 35 S runs great.Now I have the Saito 40 in # 1 and the OS GMA 35 in # 2 the ballance in bolth planes is right on no need for extra weight. This is going to be some season , can't wait.