Bill Werwage and the Walker Cup-what's u

I was just looking over the list of Walker Cup winners for the past 57 years on the PAMPA web site and I am surprised that Bill Werwage isnt listed more. Bill last won the Walker Cup in 1981, and has not won since. I find that really surprising since he seems to really dominate the competition at the team trials, VSC and other competitions. In fact, I dont seem to remember seeing Bill listed as a competitor at the 2003 NATS, eventhough it wasnt a year for the Worlds. So I was just wondering, whats up with Bill Werwage and the NATS?
Thanks,
Brian

Tough competition! He has always placed in the top 5 when he entered, and usually ended up a very close 2nd or 3rd. Only one person can win each competition, so there is no shame in the 2nd or 3rd place finishes. Ted also seems to have a lot of 2nd place finishes to his credit.

Paul Walker did a string of wins in one period before he started "having fun" with his
b-17 projects. And, yes, Billy missed a lot of Nats because of his participation on the worlds team. Last year was an unusual year and it wasn't just because of Friday's winds. Billy was fighting the floods around his area at the time that the Nats was held.

If you knew you were going to win all the time, it wouldn't be any fun!

I think part of it was that he didn't get to do too many NATS from '62-'68 because of Nat. Guard duties. Who knows? Might could have been a streak setting time for him. Winning the Walker Cup as a Senior in '59, then not being able to do a whole lot for almost a decade. Mostly local contests during that time. Not to say that there was "less" competent competition then, just that it was a long time for him to miss. He's always a threat to win these days, still.
Bob Baron was untouchable in '96, Paul W. was just untouchable too many times, Ted, David, etc., a whole lot of world class fliers and only ONE NATS Walker Cup per year!
I think it is a testament to The Man, and I'll include Ted Fancher here, too, that the level of consistancy has been maintained for this many years! (I know Ted, you're not THAT old! LOL!!)
Bill <><

Billy is a flier's flier. When you watch him fly, he is one with the airplane. A layover from the old days possibly, when it took everything the pilot had to put in a good pattern with the available equipment.

We, the modern era flier, are spoiled by equipment that works well flight after flight, or even after hanging on the wall for five months. Billy relates to his equipment on an entirely different level.

There is no one out there who has a better understanding of a model airplane than Bill. Dave Hemstrought told me once that at the end of the contest, "The fliers know". I think the premise of this thread supports Dave's theory.

Bob Hoover once told me that the best aerobatic pilots do not fly the planes - they wear them! If Billy were small enough I believe that he would be wearing that T-Bolt!

Wynn Paul has published the life-time records of stunt flyers since the Nats in the late 40's. The record includes all of the Nats since the beginning and the FAI Team trials placing. The placings at the World Championships are also used in this compilation. The list I have has not been updated for several years. As can be imagined, there are some very familiar names at the top of that list including (in reverse order) Al Rabe, Bob Whitely, Les McDonald, Lew McFarland, Windy Urtnowski, Jim Casale, Bob Hunt, Bob Baron, Paul Walker, Ted Fancher, Bob Gieseke AND Bill Werwage. If this listing is brought up-to-date, there might be some shifting in positions and maybe some displacement of these top 12 with some other names, which would include David Fitzgerald and Frank McMillan. Actually, the top four listed here (Werwage, Gieseke, Fancher and Walker) are significantly above the next level flyers and these four continue to add to the score for their rankings, meaning it will be a long while before anyone could come close to match the records of these people. But with the scoring system used by Wynn to compile this list, Bill Werwage is in a class by himself even compared to these other four supurb competitors and individuals. Even with the 7 National Championsips that Paul Walker now holds is not enough to approach the record that Bill Werwage has. He won Senior Stunt three times including the Walker Cup once as a Senior. He has two other Walker Cup wins, He was the first American to win the World Championship, and he then won it a second time. He has been the number one flyer at our Team Trials at least 5 times as well as being on the team at least 7 or eight other times.

When Bill gets serious about flying a pattern, few will ever do it better.

Keith,

Just a thought. Isn't Ted closing in on or now the holder of the record for the most 2nd place finished at the Nats? Seems to me like that may possibly be the case. Of course he has the 4 wins and well!

Bill Werwage 1990 nationals

Bill Werwage, Lexington KY around 75??

Some of us are lucky enough to se him fly more than once a year. The Cleveland Plain Dealer, our local and only Cleveland paper did an article about control line. Bill was gracious enough to come and give a couple demo flights. He was as precise and engrossed as if it was another NATS or Worlds flight. It is a treat to watch him fly anytime. We usaully catch him at our field during the day, practicing or testing.Its just great to watch him.
Wayne Buran

>Bill was gracious enough to come and give a couple demo flights. He
>was as precise and engrossed as if it was another NATS or
>Worlds flight.

Yes, The Man is a competitor. So are most of the "top dogs".
Bill has the ability to focus that many do not possess, or have not developed, and I don't think he can even fly a practice flight without getting in the zone.

Like I have said, I believe there is a very short list of those who can actually be considered as being the "Best Ever", but Bill is definitely on it.
Bill <><

In my short time back, I have avidly watched and admired many of the best at VSC, Brodak's, and this year's windy NATs. Some who post here are truly superior flyers. Among them, one of my favorites to watch is stylish and dynamic. Another's aggressive style belies his calm and gentle countenance. These guys fly wonderfully accurate patterns and are real competitors and winners. However, the most accurate patterns I've ever seen were performed by Bill Werwage. His steely focus appears neither dynamic nor stylish, but the pristine perfection of his best work is just awe inspiring. While he is a recognized master of the wind, I will always remember twilight flights at our grass circles - with both Thunderbolt and "Ares" - that just overwhelmed me. Bill surely keeps a low profile, but his building and flying speak profoundly. IMO.

SK

P.S. ...and I agree that with certain SSWF company, Bill must surely be on that short list for "best ever."

>
>P.S. ...and I agree that with certain SSWF company, Bill
>must surely be on that short list for "best ever."

Can't disagree with that analysis, Serge. Billy was my hero back in 1959 and not much has changed since. His abilitly to remain focused on stunt for 50 years is absolutely unbelieveable. I concentrated real hard for a handful of years until some of my goals were attained and since have found it difficult to do for even a fraction of the time Billy has remained devout in his dedication.

One of the things I think will make any remotely accurate determination of best ever difficult is out inability to routinely see and admire the many good non US flyers. Because we are blessed with forums like this and the great resource of PAMPA and STUNT NEWS it is awfully easy to become parochial in our considerations.

I apologize for my spelling in advance but multi-World Champion Xan Dong from China is pretty much a machine when it comes to flying patterns. In my two exposures to the Chinese team I've found the others a step or two less impressive but when it comes to doing what he wants to do on a repetitive basis this guy is tough to beat. Their patterns aren't usually what we in the US find optimum but there is not questioning the fact that the internation judging corps like what he does ... and he does it pretty much every time.

IMHO, however, champion F2B flyers can't really be judged on the same level as the US champions simply because the demands of F2B are so different. dkue to the fact that the US champions must have mastered a number of skills beyond the otherwise identical demands of flying the pattern (the old BOM and Appearance Point thing again ... please refrain from the usual) it is obvious that flyers like Billy and Paul and Bear have demonstrated greater mastery of the total skills involved in championship stunt flying. Again, in my opinion, this reality would weigh heavily.

The sport of golf provides an interesting analogy. There are championships with great prize money for long drives. There are individuals who are markedly superior to even the best PGA tour pros in terms of blasting the ball into the next zip code. They are extremely accomplished in that aspect of the "game" of golf. Prettty much no one would argue, however, that their mastery of the "game" is on a par with those who can drive, putt, chip and pitch while managing the demands of an actual golf course. the one requires mastery of a single skill, the other a plethora of them.

Both are to be admired for what they accomplish but there is no question that the demands of the latter exceed those of the former. That is the reason I would likely ... were I given a vote in the matter ... tend to reward those individuals who have demonstrated a mastery of the whole "game".

Billy would be at the top of my list, I think. Followed closely by Paul Walker and (only due to a much shorter career) Les McDonald. The next rank would be curmudgeonly ol' Al Rabe for taking the whole concept of stunt planes and the abililty to fly them well when they're weird to a new level.

What these guys have beyond the abililty to steer their airplanes through the pattern is the gift of producing magnificent machines with which to accomplish that goal. To do that and still stand above your peers in the flying department is the sort of achievement which brings the Oscars.

Ted

P.s. I must emphasize the above is strictly and only my personal feelings on the matter. I recognize others may disagree and have a perfect right to do so. I'd love to see a rational and considerate discussion on the subject.

Bill Werwage reminds me of Neil Armstrong because their public persona's are very alike. They both appear to be very private men, who do what they do for their own reasons. They appear to be motivated by internal desires rather than the need for public approval. Perhaps they each have a great need to simply be the best as they themselves see "The Best". I have never seen either one take advantage of public admiration.

>
>>
>What these guys have beyond the abililty to steer their
>airplanes through the pattern is the gift of producing
>magnificent machines with which to accomplish that goal. To
>do that and still stand above your peers in the flying
>department is the sort of achievement which brings the
>Oscars.
>
>Ted
>
>P.s. I must emphasize the above is strictly and only my
>personal feelings on the matter. I recognize others may
>disagree and have a perfect right to do so. I'd love to see
>a rational and considerate discussion on the subject.

Ted,

What you would love to see is none of my concern. Especially when I would like to see a real knife fight when it comes to the issue of who is the best-ever in an event with subjective judging as one of the more salient features.

"...rational and considerate..."?? Give me rude and crude any day. Statements which begin with "Yo' Momma," and end with a two-word description of the physically impossible.

Given our track record on this fourm, I'll get my wish years in advance of you getting yours.

Give your wife a big kiss for me.

>
>Give your wife a big kiss for me.
>
>Dan
>

Sure Dirt. As soon as I get my virtual whiskers out of storage.

Ted

ps. By the way, Yeah, I'm sure you're right!

I have a an apology to make. In an earlier post, I was talking about the top stunt pilots as ranked by Wynn Paul. When I mentioned Paul Walker, I erroneously stated that he has won the Walker Cup seven times. I stand corrected. Paul Walker has won the Walker Cup no less than nine times. No slight was intended. My apology to Paul.

I saw Keith Trostle fly a couple of years ago at Whittier, Ca.
Excellent flying and a nice guy too.

I watched Keith fly the Gulfhawk at the end of November when I was in Long Beach on business. Keith picked me up at the motel I was staying at and took me to Whittier where I got to meet some of the other members of the club including Eric Rule. I was impressed with the Gulfhawk's internal variable rudder linkage and it has an absolutely awesome corner for the wing area. That Jett .50 hauls it around nicely.

>I saw Keith Trostle fly a couple of years ago at Whittier,
>Ca.

Wow....I used to fly at that site 15 years ago.....But that was before the "prison" fence in the background. OK you Whittier Norrows guys....What's the purpose of the fence in the background? The only thing back there is a flood control channel.

Now on to the actual topic!!

In 1990, I had the privilege of staying at Bill's place for a week prior to the world champs. I was impressed. His airplane collection is WAY better than the AMA museum's collection. Virtually every plane he had built was in his attic...Fantastic!! Further, I got to see him in action doing what he did best for a living....His one man band act in the local eating/drinking establishment. Wow was he good at that too. A total artist all around.

I can't even imagine how many patterns he has flown over the years. Makes my 50+ gallons of fuel a year (in the 80's that was)pale in comparison.

There are a few people that I really feel special about when I am able to best them in competition. 1 group is the Chinese, as they are PROFESSIONAL fliers, and being an amatuer and then beating them feels special. And then there is Billy. He has put so much time and effort into this hobby, that it makes any win over him very special, because I know I have beaten......the BEST.

Keep at it Billy, and I wish your mother a speedy and complete recovery.

>>I saw Keith Trostle fly a couple of years ago at Whittier,
>>Ca.
>
>Wow....I used to fly at that site 15 years ago.....But that
>was before the "prison" fence in the background. OK you
>Whittier Norrows guys....What's the purpose of the fence in
>the background? The only thing back there is a flood control
>channel.
>
>Now on to the actual topic!!
>
>
>In 1990, I had the privilege of staying at Bill's place for
>a week prior to the world champs. I was impressed. His
>airplane collection is WAY better than the AMA museum's
>collection. Virtually every plane he had built was in his
>attic...Fantastic!! Further, I got to see him in action
>doing what he did best for a living....His one man band act
>in the local eating/drinking establishment. Wow was he good
>at that too. A total artist all around.
>
>I can't even imagine how many patterns he has flown over the
>years. Makes my 50+ gallons of fuel a year (in the 80's
>that was)pale in comparison.
>
>There are a few people that I really feel special about when
>I am able to best them in competition. 1 group is the
>Chinese, as they are PROFESSIONAL fliers, and being an
>amatuer and then beating them feels special. And then there
>is Billy. He has put so much time and effort into this
>hobby, that it makes any win over him very special, because
>I know I have beaten......the BEST.
>
>Keep at it Billy, and I wish your mother a speedy and
>complete recovery.

Paul,

That "prison fence" in the background is covering a bicycle path that runs under & parallel to the downwind leg of the R/C landing pattern. I think that they had some near misses of bicycle riders by some of the less talented R/C group, so the fence went up.

Bill is also very amusing. I have really enjoyed the times I got to hang out with him. Here he is at the 2000 world champs in France.

OK, I practiced on the User Support Forum and it worked. So here's the 17 year old Walker Cup Winner in 1959 in the picture I always remembered. I was 14 - couldn't believe some kid could do that!

1961 - Winners Vornholt, Werwage, McFarland:

Serge,

Nice to see those pictures, and the reflections from the wing covering still show true.