Electric starters and CL Stunt

While I was taken aback by it, Ferocious had what I think is the best article to date on use of electric starters. And this piece is in the current issue of Flying Models *Combat* column!

Good job, Phil. And as more and more Stunt dudes and dudettes begin to see that electric starters have an application in our event, this article is required reading.

I only have one caution: Although Phil nailed the reason why continuous grinding on a motor so rarely results in satisfying noises coming from the exhaust, y'all might want to be very careful in using his suggested technique, that of spinning the starter motor up and then bumping the spinner.

Some of our CL Stunt models don't have structure in the front end designed to deal with the forces which can easily be applied with this technique.

With this in mind, it is my suggestion that when an initial start fails, grinding ditto, it is frequently best to lay the starter aside and flip the prop by hand. Using the proven and common sense tips provided in the very same article.

Ooooh! This is weird, replying to myself.

After posting preceding I was reminded that in the NW we have a CL modeler who shall remain named **John Thompson** and who has an intriguing--read: "totally whacked"--story concerning his use of an electric starter on an O.S. 40FP.

While John shared his experience via the always excellent Flying Lines newsletter, I am encouraging him to step forward on this forum. Plus there may have been futher developments of which I am not aware.

John?

Ya know, Dan, all my engines start on the first or second flip.

If it ain't right to star by flipping it also ain't right to starat with am eletric starter.

BTW, on engines above .40 I use a chicken stick (I'm a chicken)...

Last time I ws hand flipping a .46 the darn thing got flooded and it hit my finger so hard (thank God I was using a wooden prop) that I found myself using curse words I didn't even suspect I knew...

On the other side, if you know well your engine and you have a field box big enough to carry a starter, why not?

The important thing is that the engine has a washer between the prop nut and the case, so that the crakshaft won;t scratch the backplate.

Do not try to start a 4 stroker with your fingers. Makes tooting horns, plucking strings awkward.

y'all might want
>to be very careful in using his suggested technique, that of
>spinning the starter motor up and then bumping the spinner.

Uh...no. Do not recommend. On pretty noses anyway.

When I first tried an electric starter, the engine was flooded, broke the nose and the spinner took off for parts unknown. Never did find the spinner. That was in 1974.

I usually find turning the prop backwards until you hit compression, and then pushing the starter onto the spinner, and only then hitting the on switch, will give a reasonably smooth start for the engine. This gives the starter approximately 300 degrees or so to get up to speed (more if it is a 4 stroke).

This gives the starter approximately 300 degrees or so to get up to speed (more if it is a 4 stroke).

Alan;

don't you mean 135 to 155 degrees which is the range for the exhaust timing on most stunt engines?

I will spare everyone the long story. Suffice it to say that using a starter on my stunt plane (in front of judges, of course -- this would never happen on a Sunday sport flying session) resulted in damage to the piston/liner.
The engine stiffened up. It actually would start and run OK, but no longer felt free after this one particular use of a starter. Disassembly revealed that the piston-liner fit was bound, as if one or the other was knocked out of round.
I don't have the answer as to why this happened. One theory might be that the engine was flooded and some sort of vapor lock damage occurred, but I believe the engine was not flooded when this happened.
Previous to this incident the engine was easy to start. I had used the starter on it a few times with no problems.
Go figure.
Anyway, I was in an odd way glad it happened. The .35 FP I replaced it with runs better.

Always amazes me that so many thousand RC pilots can figure out an electric starter while so many hundred CL pilots still look at them like the 'Apes' in Clarke's 2001.

Dan brings the only concern I have for the electric starter up. The fact that a re-inforced nose is common on RC airplane where light and just enough wood there is common on CL. Use a little common sense and start your engine with it.

Course, it always amazes me the number of RC pilots that I've seen head home without flying because they forgot THEIR electric starter. Flip it? You mean I can just FLIP IT???? NOOOO, you're a Heretic, Burn baby Burn.

I only bought one to play RC combat with where in a heated match I didn't have time to give a couple extra flips.

>Always amazes me that so many thousand RC pilots can figure
>out an electric starter while so many hundred CL pilots
>still look at them like the 'Apes' in Clarke's 2001.
>
>From somewhere near Parkville, Mo.
>William Crane
>AMA 6733

Actually, I believe the C/L fraternity is considerably better versed in engine fundamentals than the typical R/C type (I fly both).

I endlessly watch the R/C pilots hooking up their electric fuel pumps to transfer in their 12oz load of 12% green or pink synthetic fuel then hit it with the starter and let it grind away for seemingly minutes while the engine tries to prime itself and get going.

Of course, the ball bearing examples don't have the crank pins grinding into the backplates but R/C planes have the ugliest spinners you'll ever see.

re: the 300 degree estimate. I think you are correct.

Starters ...... I don't need no stinkin starters !

>Starters ...... I don't need no stinkin starters !

My electric starter dosen't smell, It's the old Bandaids on my cut-up fingers that get rank. I use an electric motor to start my engines.
Regards,
John Jolley

Electric starter ??????? what for I was born with a built in starter its called my forefinger and when covered with a good leather glove dont seem to hurt it just have to make sure I have the correct prime.
I even start my ST61 powered radio model that way and still have all my fingers worst ever happened to me was loseing the side of my finger when adjusting a Rossi 15 combat model and it burped now that did hurt.

!!!!!! DONT LET THEM GRIND YOU DOWN KEEP ON FLYING !!!!!!!

OKC,

I wouldn't try cranking a flooded engine that's spinning an Eather or Bolly razorblade with a leather glove. The glove and finger would be seriously damaged. The only thing I have found that works good is to put a piece of thick pipe coupler over the finger and hope those props can't cut through the heavey coupler. So far it's worked pretty good! Keeping my fingers crossed, uh, not the one cranking though!

thanks Dan. I was just trying to promote some uncommon sense. Electric starters can save a lot of time and hurt fingers if you learn how to use them and use them properly. But I agree, starting you lightly built stunter with a 60 engine and having the starter slip off the prop can cause all sorts of trouble. You just have to try, learn, and practice the basics. Good solid grip on the plane, square up the starter so it is parallel with the engine shaft, and bump the motor with short bursts.

What breaks planes is when a guy doesn't hold the plane, depending on his helper to hold it, doesn't line up the motor/starter shafts, leans on the thing hard so it won't slip, and then grabs a death grip on the switch so he can't let go until long after the starter has gone through the prop and slammed on down through the wing sheeting.

I use an electric starter. 4 stroke engines converted me. While I have been able to hand start my Saito engines, it's not much fun. There are some tricks to it and one sure fire method (at least for me), but generally, without a starter, it's likely to be a pain in the behind.

What a bummer, I tried to enter a fairly long post, maybe 5 minutes, and before I got done the field cleared. This has happened before. Is there a time limit? I don't think I'll bother with the forum until I know how long I have to express my opinions, or share a technique as I tried to do here!

DAN...is my starter in the same category? My Pocket Starter.

I use my email (Outlook) to compose long messages then cut, paste and cancel the email. I always have Outlook up anyway so it's real easy to switch back and forth. The spell checker is a nice side benefit.

I start most engines with a gloved finger: however, I am running an Aldrich carbon petal blade 11 x 5 on a Tower 40 and there is no way I am touching that prop with my hand. I also use a starter on my one worn-out ST G20-15 diesel which no longer reliably hand-starts.

I don't get within an arms length of one of those carbon fiber props --- with or without a glove!