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My wing/flap design considerations

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Al Rabe · Jan 17, 2004 03:37 PM

#0 source
LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-04 AT 04:26 PM (CDT)
 
First, I'll admit that I don't fly conventional stunt ships. This doesn't mean that they lave any lack of performance. They wouldn't be competition stunt ships if they lacked the stability necessary for smooth, groovy flight and smooth and easy round maneuvers which track well. They must also be capable of whatever corner radius the judges seem to require. My airplanes generally have these characteristics but incorporate sharply different design philosophy.

My airplanes have large scale-like fuselages. With large frontal area and lots of wetted area, I have more drag than most any other competition stunters. If you have followed various posts on this forum, you are already aware that to some degree, drag may be beneficial for speed control during maneuvers. Drag is offset by thrust, and I favor very large engines and seldom lack thrust. Drag has never seemed to make my airplanes less competitive.

I build airplanes with the least wing area possible necessary for competitive performance while, at the same time enhancing the appearance of a semi-scale airplane. I believe that a competitive stunter must have enough lift to carry the airplane, buffet free, through the tightest necessary corners. This isn't to say the tightest possible corners which implies an amount of lift exceeding that required to make a well scoring competitive corner. Airplanes with excess lift almost always have unnecessarily large wings and flaps with less area and travel than that which would produce the most lift possible from the available wing area. Airplanes with unnecessarily large wings and "lazy" (small or torsionally weak) flaps also have unnecessary frontal area, wetted area and parasitic drag. Induced drag should be similar to smaller more efficient wings because the lift produced is similar. But, again, drag isn't necessarily a demon. It isn't necessary to build 55 oz airplanes with 700 sq in wings to make competitive corners, and these large "kites" may be at a competitive disadvantage when strong winds make lightly loaded airplanes more likely to be blown out of competitively shaped maneuvers. 55 ozs/700 sq in equal .078 ozs/sq in of wing loading.

I've found that the airfoil tests done to design the Sea Fury has resulted in wings that can be fully competitive at .11 ozs/sq in wing area, although, in all honesty, I shoot for .1 or 550 sq in wing to fly 55 oz airplanes with my combination of wing design features.

First, I use thicker wings. The Sea Fury tests led me, in 1970 to use thicker wings than the then common 18% (less flaps). The Oriental was exceptional, for the time, with 20%. My airfoil tests indicated that 25% should work well, providing high lift with a reasonably decent appearance. I also theorized that an asymmetric rib shape should be beneficial as the corners of the pattern requiring the greatest lift (triangle and hourglass, lower right) were both inside corners. With enough lift to fly those corners, we should be able to get by with less lift from a thinner bottom half of the airfoil for the rest of the pattern. Since then, nearly all of my airplanes have incorporated some asymmetry in their airfoils, and we are talking about three NATs wins, two Walker Trophys and a World 2nd place with asymmetric airfoils. Still, asymmetry aside, I still believe that thicker wings produce more lift and I have proved it to MY satisfaction. I use, typically, 25% airfoil tops and sometimes, but not always less on the bottom.

Second, I have empirical evidence only, but am convinced that moderate leading edge radius airfoils fly better, especially in the wind. I don't agree with the blunt nose designs. They seem to me likely to be less stable in pitch, but that is my opinion.

Third, based on my Sea Fury airfoil tests, I am also convinced that the lifting capability of the wing is improved when the airfoil is "profiled" to reduce the discontinuity at the hinge line. so my airfoils are contoured with a noticeable curve in the ribs ahead of the wing trailing edge. This is certainly less than optimum in level flight where a zero flap discontinuity is noticeable but I really don't care how inefficient the wing may be in level flight as long as I can obtain greater lift and a slight drag reduction from eliminating the discontinuity while maneuvering. Asymmetry, thickness, leading edge radius and rib profile were covered in the Sea Fury and Mustunt articles published in February and March issues of AAM in 1973. I originated the sliding block adjustable leadout and showed the reversed bellcrank in the Bearcat article in 1970 AAM. The Sea Fury article argued against the use of asymmetry in wing length by using equal span wing panels. This idea was updated in l973 in the design of the molded Mustangs (Snaggletooth series) when I wrote that a small amount of wing length asymmetry was usable if the outboard flap was widened to at maintain at least equal flap area. The Elvolution..... article published in Aug 1978 Flying Modeler described the first use of 1/2" of asymmetry and 1/8" wider tip of the outboard flap. Some of these ideas have become commonplace in modern stunt ship design without thought of their orgins.

Fourth, To obtain the maximum lift from a given amount of wing area, large flaps are required. My designs usually use flaps which are 25% of the wing chord. My base rib is 10" root chord with 3.3" flap chord. My typical tip chord is 6" with 2" flap chords (+ - 1/16" for the elimination of asymmetry). If maximum lift is needed, it isn't enough to simply build large flaps. To be optimally effective they must also be torsionally stiff. A large flap which "washes out" will produce no more lift that a smaller stiff flap. To this end, I build very stiff flaps. the original Mustang of the Snaggletooth series,E2-S, had 3/8" flaps with 2 layers of fiberglass and epoxy glue. For the time this was considered typical or a bit more. The Mustang VII which I built for the World champs (but crashed) had 3/8" flaps with 5 layers of glass cloth, each layer cured and sanded individually. This made for an unusually stiff flap. This airplane had 530 sq in wing, weighed 51 ozs and had a home made .60 engine which I called a Rabe 10. (10cc) The wing loading was .096 ozs/sq in.

Finally, It does no good to build large, stiff flaps and fail to deflect them optimally in maneuvers to obtain maximum performance. from my airfoil tests, I determined that measured lift of my stunt sections peaked at a flap deflection of 30 degrees. My airplanes are designed to use 30 degrees of control deflection in hard corners. To obtain a 30 degree of control deflection in corners without uncomfortable handle deflections, requires a larger than normal throw on the bellcrank. I use 4" bellcranks with a 1 1/8" - 1 1/4" operating arms. This requirement for large control (not handle) deflections means that, generally, I fly airplanes which are nose heavier than most. I view this as serendipitous as nose heavy airplanes are more stable and tend to fly particularly nice tracking rounds. This is very similar to earlier stunt configurations which used Top Flite 3" bellcranks with 15/16" throws, forward CG and were flown with 6" EZ-Just handles. I don't agree with the modern trend toward aft CG's. (Or, "There is more than one way to skin a cat".)

The process of building an updated Snaggletooth which had a bit larger wing than the later Mustang VII. It preceded the Mustang VII and had a wing which, at the time, I considered too big at 550 sq/in and 51 ozs for a loading of .092 oz/sq in. The BBQB Bearcat and Millennium ran nearly .11 oz/sq in wing loading and turn well. My problem now is to try to build a very competitive airplane with a new, modern engine which is heavier, together with its muffler and larger adjustable tank and the use of heavier glue (CA instead of water thinned Tightbond).

My goal is a wing loading of .1 for a flying weight of 55 ozs. I won't make it. I figure I can get by with 1.1 oz/sq in loading which would allow a weight of 60.5 for a small .65 powered airplane. I am sure that I will beat that figure, but just to be sure, I am going to build the stiffest flaps I have ever built to squeeze the most possible lift from the available wing area. The new flaps are built with a .312" (5/16") carbon tube (.022 wall) embedded in the length of the flap leading edge. These were very difficult to build, but are somewhat stiffer than the Mustang VII flaps and will weigh about the same. The problem with this flap is the relatively large leading edge radius of the flap. Installing the hinges on the trailing edge of the wing and leading edge of the flap gives about 1/16" gap between the wing and the flap. Aerodynamically, this isn't a problem as the gap closes as the flap is deflected until at about 35 degrees where the flap gap closes completely. the fact that the gap closes completely means there is no advantage to sealing the flap with tape. It just doesn't look as good as the flaps of the Mustang VII which had a very close fit. I almost built Mustang VII flaps because they were almost as stiff and the gap looked better.

This is a pretty sophisticated and labor intensive flap design. That being the case, it is hard to justify unless you need that last bit of lift possible from a small wing.

Yes, for what its worth, I think that nearly all classic stunt ships have too large wings and too small, springy flaps. But that is just my opinion.

Al

The photos below show the tooling required to build the flaps, and (1) an inboard flap from the long gone E2-S, two layers of glass cloth, and (2) an inboard flap from the Mustang VII which is also long gone and has 5 layers of glass cloth, and (3) the new inboard flap for the Snaggletooth 2 which has the carbon leading edge and one layer of glass cloth. This flap will get somewhat stiffer as epoxy paint is added in the finishing process.

Jim Pollock · Jan 17, 2004 04:18 PM

#1 source
>First, I'll admit that I don't fly conventional stunt ships.
> This doesn't mean that they lave any lack of performance.
>They wouldn't be competition stunt ships if they lacked the
>stability necessary for smooth, groovy flight and smooth and
>easy round maneuvers which track well. They must also be
>capable of whatever corner radius the judges seem to
>require. My airplanes generally have these characteristics
>but incorporate sharply different design philosophy.

Hi Al,

Maybe I'll be able to get back in 'Bama this year so I can come to Dallas and see you guys again! After watching Keith Trostle fly his Gulfhawk Bearcat, I can definetly attest that it has the most incredible corner I have EVER seen on a simi-scale airplane. In my humble estimation your work on model airfoils and lift is nothing short of complete Genius - I equate you to an Einstein of models!

Jim Pollock

Proparc · Jan 17, 2004 06:00 PM

#2 source
Al, I can't tell you what a pleasure it is to have you here with us. I remember reading your article about how you drove through the Texas desert with an airfoil testing jig on your car as a young teenager and thinking to myself; this guy is taking care of serious business! I personally feel that not only is your work significant, but your generousity and willingness to share sets an example for all of us to follow.

"I don't know about this tuned pipe business. I practiced on that thing until my lips turned blue, and I still can't play a stinkin note."
"Homer J. Simpson"

Milton Graham\Proparc

Al Rabe · Jan 17, 2004 06:34 PM

#3 source
LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-04 AT 10:31 PM (CDT)
 
Awwwwww shucks, but then you wouldn't say it if it wern't true.

Al

DMoon · Jan 17, 2004 07:35 PM

#4 source
Al,

Thanks for the videos. I have made it through several and I am enjoying them very much. Thank you.

Couple of questions.

1. Please explain "wetted area"

2. What rig is that on the front of your dremel. Often I have wanted to build flaps with a LE of carbon tubing. I would incorporate it right on the LE. I would then embed it into the TE of the wing and it would create no gap. The tube would role inside the TE of the wing. Then I read your stuff again about flaps you said that the embedded flap was not the most powerful. So I just went on with normal built up flaps. Still I would like to use carbon tubes in the flaps for rigidity.

Good stuff.

One more question. Where do you place your CG? You comment on a forward CG setup but I would like to know where you place it. I have the BBQB plans where on the root chord on the plan would it be. I flew your plane and it does feel nose heavy at all to me. I liked it. I want to fly it agian.

Doug

Doug Moon

Al Rabe · Jan 17, 2004 10:47 PM

#5 source
LAST EDITED ON Jan-17-04 AT 11:03 PM (CDT)
 
Doug,

The device on the front of my Moto-Tool is a modified Dremel routing attachment. The aluminum angles have been added to tightly guide 3/8" sheet across the 5/16" Dremel burr. The balsa is a tight push fit to align the sheet precisely for routing the groove exactly in the middle of the sheet.

Why would you want to build such stiff flaps? There is no need for such stiff flaps except in very specific circumstances where there might be a problem obtaining enough lift. In fact, really stiff flaps might overpower the elevators and slow the corner unless the airplane is designed for stiff flaps. Anyway, If you insist, I have the tooling, parts and a video which you may borrow.

As for CG location, truthfully, I don't really design a specific location. I rough balance my airplanes at about 1/4 chord of the root airfoil (not counting flaps) and then use nose weight as required to obtain the most desirable characteristics possible as I trim. CG locations shown on my plans are mostly artistic and only valid to indicate a general area where the airplane might balance when trimmed. As long as I take the trouble to calculate a tail volume coefficient, I'm in the ballpark and my airplanes are always trimmable. But the symbol does look neat on the plans doesn't it?

Al

DMoon · Jan 17, 2004 11:03 PM

#6 source
Al,

My reasoning behind the super stiff flaps would be this. If they are very stiff then they will react the same every time they are deflected. If they are flexible then they well not yield the same deflection each time. The washing out or flexing will be different in different conditions. Or so I think. I think I am getting them stiff enough at this time. But Me and John Grigsby have been wanting to build flaps like these for some time. I can see from your photos how you are doing it. Cool, thanks for all the info.

What does wetted area mean?

Doug Moon

Iskandar Taib · Jan 18, 2004 01:05 AM

#7 source
The total surface area of the airplane. The area the air rubs against when the thing is flying. The larger the wetted area, the greater the "profile drag" (i.e. the component of drag that's not caused by the creation of lift, this being called "induced drag").

Igor Burger · Jan 18, 2004 04:39 AM

#10 source
Doug, the repeatability could be an issue if the flap has some amount of plasticity, but I think the main advantage of stiff flap is the limiting of hinge moment. It is because the feedback comes mostly from lift of wing (not deflection), while the flap effect comes from flap deflection. So the soft flap brings hingemoment but not the lift.

igor

Ron · Jan 19, 2004 07:25 AM

#14 source
>Doug, the repeatability could be an issue if the flap has
>some amount of plasticity, but I think the main advantage of
>stiff flap is the limiting of hinge moment. It is because
>the feedback comes mostly from lift of wing (not
>deflection), while the flap effect comes from flap
>deflection. So the soft flap brings hingemoment but not the
>lift.
>
>igor


It seems to me that Al's airfoil design with a lot of thickness carried well aft in the wing would tend to make the wing much stiffer and better able to carry the hinge moments of the stiff flaps. Stiff flaps on a flexable wing just doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Stiffness is relative

All wings flex some amount, some more than others

Igor Burger · Jan 19, 2004 07:50 AM

#15 source
Yes Ron, that round airfoil with skin free of open bays is hard to twist, but I do not mean flexing of wing, I mean the feedback to horn, pushrod and bellcrank. It means the force, which you must use on handle to deflect flaps.

godzilla · Jan 20, 2004 12:27 PM

#16 source
>Doug, the repeatability could be an issue if the flap has
>some amount of plasticity, but I think the main advantage of
>stiff flap is the limiting of hinge moment. It is because
>the feedback comes mostly from lift of wing (not
>deflection), while the flap effect comes from flap
>deflection. So the soft flap brings hingemoment but not the
>lift.
>
>igor

Sorry, this makes no sense to me.

Soft flap means less TRUE deflection, which would in turn reduce hinge moment also. Hinge moment and lift should be directly proportional, regardless of the stiffness of the flaps.

Spongy flap makes less lift and less hinge moment, same reverse for the stiff flap.

The City Smasher

Igor Burger · Jan 20, 2004 03:08 PM

#19 source

I will make two examples – could be easier than long theoretical answer:

1/ The flap is very soft. It is so soft that even you deflect the horn, the flap still exactly in neutral under load. The wing must make lift X in maneuver. A flap has some array and thus the hingemoment is <>0 even the flap is in the neutral. I think this shows that the relation between deflection, lift and hingemoment is NOT linear. The reason is, that the flap does not make lift on its area, it change the lift on whole wing, but it is for longer speaking, I will try something trivial:

2/ You have 100% stiff flap. You want to deflect it to 30 deg. Nice that needs hingemoment X. Now expect that another soft flap. It is so soft that you must deflect the horn twice more than original stiff flap to get the same effect. Effective deflection is still the same so you are right also hinge moment is the same, but the horn deflection is twice more. It means that the feedback (and the feedback is what is important for us at handle) is also twice as much because of bellcrank to flap horn ratio is twice higher – because twice deflection needs half arm length and thus twice higher pushrod force.

igor

godzilla · Jan 20, 2004 04:23 PM

#20 source
>2/ You have 100% stiff flap. You want to deflect it to 30
>deg. Nice that needs hingemoment X. Now expect that another
>soft flap. It is so soft that you must deflect the horn
>twice more than original stiff flap to get the same effect.
>Effective deflection is still the same so you are right also
>hinge moment is the same, but the horn deflection is twice
>more. It means that the feedback (and the feedback is what
>is important for us at handle) is also twice as much because
>of bellcrank to flap horn ratio is twice higher – because
>twice deflection needs half arm length and thus twice higher
>pushrod force.

Less deflection equals less force on the flap.

I don't care how far you had to move the moment arm, the moment is equal to the force on the flap multiplied by the moment arm.

More true deflection equals more force on the flap. More force means more moment. Less deflection is less force, whether it is from less control deflection or from flexing.

The City Smasher

Igor Burger · Jan 20, 2004 04:40 PM

#21 source
Your wrist playing +/- 30 deg turns your bellcrank +/- 30 deg (you have 4” bellcrank and 4” line separation on handle). Your hard flap needs 30 deg deflection. Means your arm on bellcrank A1 is equal to arm on flaps A2. The aerodynamic force converted to hingemoment X converts to bellcrank feedback X and thus also wrist moment X on your handle.

If you have those half flexing flaps, your wrist does the same. Also bellcrank does the same and also flap does the same, but your horn must deflect twice as much (because of flexing). For that you need twice longer arm A1 on bellcrank to the same arm A2 like you need for hard flap. So you have 2:1 ratio. The hinge moment X on flexible flap is the same as on hard flap (because of same deflection) and the same !moment! (not deflection) is on horn. But thanx 2:1 ratio the feedback to bellcrank is 2*X, thus also you wrist feel 2*X moment.

Better?

igor

godzilla · Jan 20, 2004 04:47 PM

#22 source

>the feedback to bellcrank is 2*X, thus also you wrist feel
>2*X moment.

Your wrist feel 2*x deflection, to achieve EQUAL moment.

Your wrist would not feel greater moment at any point with flex flaps.

Conversly, at equal wrist defection YOUR WRIST would feel 1/2 moment.

The City Smasher

Igor Burger · Jan 20, 2004 04:55 PM

#23 source
:-) ... did you read this:

>>>For that you need twice longer arm A1 on bellcrank to the same arm A2 like you need for hard flap.<<<

Or my English is so pure ... if yes, sorry for that

Old Sourdough · Jan 18, 2004 03:48 AM

#8 source
LAST EDITED ON Jan-18-04 AT 03:53 AM (CDT)
 
Doug wrote:

"Al,

Thanks for the videos. I have made it through several and I
am enjoying them very much. Thank you.

Couple of questions.

1. Please explain "wetted area"..."
=============================================
Doug, I just read Al's reply to the message above and realized he hadn't answered the wetted area question. I'm not certain that I can explain it properly, but if you'll go back and reread Al's articles on the (original) Mustang, the Bearcat, and the Sea Fury, I'm certain that you'll find an explanation. I know that I read a explanation of this subject as well as of many other aeronautic terms in those pages.

Plus, you'll enjoy the heck out of the articles as wholes.

Edit: Oops! After posting this, I see that Iskandar has already answered that question. Go back and reread those articles anyway. They still have a lot of good information in them.

The Old Sourdough
Ruksakinmakiak, Alaska, US of A

Igor Burger · Jan 18, 2004 04:29 AM

#9 source
Al, it looks technically well done, but I have little problem with functionality regarding the gap. You say it closes up with deflection. I understand it makes an “end deflection” if the gap is closed. So in my eyes, if the gap should be sealed in flight, you must use end points and it is not very compatible with PA. At least in my eyes – I cannot imagine to use end point and be able to hit proper level after corner.

Once I tried to seal the gap another way. I did very sharp pointy LE on flap compressed to the flat (vertical) TE on wing. It was really compressed so it did relatively good seal. It does not bring any friction as it is really sharp and the LE of flap does not “move” on the wing. It did very good job to bring lift and affectivity of flap, but I had problems to find proper tip weight and leadout position. I would say that if you have smaller gap, the flaps bring mo lift, but little misalignment has big effect. Large gap can well suppress such problem while true sealing cancels it at all. I think the very small gap is the worst case for trimming.

Another problem I see is progressive effect of flaps. If it seals up with deflection, then flaps are less effective around neutral and more at end point. That is exactly opposite to what I would welcome. I invested an effort to have logarithmic response of flaps by relatively complex unit. And that is exactly what allowed me to move CG more front – and it was very good choice for WC in Sebnitz in very turbulent air. I do not think the progressive response is good way for LARGE model.

igor

John Sunderland · Jan 18, 2004 07:56 AM

#11 source
I certainly dont have the experience of Al or the other various wing design experts but have read and used bits and pieces of all published stunt wing considerations and until last year never used anyone elses exact airfoils. Since I have not ventured very far into serious scale stunt design and know of few who have I could pose no argument for Als findings.

One thing I and many others I have discussed this subject with agree on is stiff surfaces. Never heard anyone say ...."Well your problem is that the flaps and elevators are to stiff!" Nearly one half inch thick at the LE of the flap on the first Chevelle I built. The surface was built up from a 3/8" LE spar and 1/16 TE with geodetic ribs and sheeted with 1/16. Not ideal and labor intensive as compared to standard sanded taper surfaces but still quite stiff. The flap LE is rounded but not fully rounded so it does close the gap when deflected and I flew it for several years successfully with no sealed hinge lines.

Further the whole plane was a drag wagon and I know of nobody else flying blunter LE wing with a thicker section. Several of the thin proponenets poo pooed my design but even six years later it serves me well on the contest trail, hangar rash and all. I am very tempted to try one of Als wing designs for my currently shelved Meteor project but confess that I have been leary of a smaller wing for a plane I know will weigh at least 60 oz. if not more.

Has anyone simply carved and sanded Basswood flaps and compared weights and stiffness? It seems to me that a stiffer flap might not be required a 25% of root wing area if the deflected surface did not flex. Just a thought or two here. My building season has just now begun due to work commitments and moving this past fall. I am all ears!

John Sunderland

John Sunderland

Larry Cunningham · Jan 18, 2004 09:44 AM

#12 source
I can't help being a skeptic about problems of (excessive) flexing on control surfaces. (But I've been finishing my flaps with fiberglass covered by silkspan forever.) This doesn't detract from the desirability of rigid structures, however.

Looking at Igor's use of the cute little PIC microcontroller and the fact that strain guages aren't that hard to implement, it would be interesting to instrument some flaps and look at real data. (I know, I know, we want pressure data for various points on the airfoil as well!)

As for Al's work, it is tremendous and I thank him for his generosity in sharing it all. To me, this is one of the redeeming features of CL Stunt - a great willingness to share and discuss ideas and information.

I remember a photo in an old Aero Modeler magazine of one of Jim Greenway's wing designs with a very wide (and thick at the leading edge) flap, which was apparently part of its main airfoil. I always wondered how well that worked.

[photo not recovered: 3e69bb3870f12ad5.jpg]

"Unless a man undertakes more than he possibly can do, he will never doall he can do." -Henry Drummond

Al Rabe · Jan 18, 2004 09:54 AM

#13 source
LAST EDITED ON Jan-20-04 AT 10:42 AM (CDT)
 
Igor,

I think you may have missed the point. This was not a "technical" exercise.It was simply an effort to marginally stiffen the flaps compared to the Mustang VII which had very stiff flaps. I had a great deal of experience with that airplane and want to reproduce its flying characteristics. Most stunt ships and all of mine have a gap at the flap hinge line, some smaller than others. I have built and flown airplanes with various gaps and have experienced, in many thousands of flights no ill effects from the gap or the way I hinge my flaps. I have flown the Millennium and classic Bearcat with one wing tape sealed and found no noticeable tendency to roll from differential of lift.

My concern with the SLIGHTLY blunter leading edge of the new flaps has to do only with appearance, not performance. I may not be an engineer, but with regard to stunt ships only, I am reluctant to accept theoretical advice which conflicts with my empirical experience gained from building and flying many airplanes, thousands of flights and having considerable competition success. I am not opposed to experimentation and am a very careful observer of the flight characteristics of my airplanes. I observe no ill effects of "end point closure" in my airplanes. I mentioned it only in passing because taping hinges seem not to offer any advantage to MY wings.

Will Snagletooth 2 be overpowered? Jeffery Quill, Supermarine chief test pilot, stated in a paper to the Royal Aeronautical Society, in regard to replacing the Spitfire's 27 liter Merlin engine with the 37 liter Griffon, "A good big 'un will usually beat a good little 'un". The Snaggletooth series of molded Mustangs were originally designed with 520 sq in wings and a ST 46. The wings got longer and area increased slightly as the airplane was developed and engines increased in size from a 46 to a 51 to a pint sized home made 60. The present effort involves modifications to the Snaggletooth airplane to increase its power from the design engine to a modern rear exhaust .65 which should produce about double the power of the original design. Aerodynamic changes to the airplane are minimal as the Snaggletooth was an excellent flying airplane to begin with. Is it overpowered? well, if a .65 in a 55oz, 550 sq in airplane isn't overpowered, it won't be for lack of trying. Seriously, I believe that it is difficult to overpower stunt ships as long as the wing loading and balance don't exceed competitive values. Speed is controlled by the prop no matter how large the engine. It is my opinion that excess power increases an airplane's line tension, penetration and, in general, an ability to shrug off many of the ill effects of wind and turbulence. The reprised Snaggletooth is then, a small, powerful, hopefully optimized airplane for all weather competition.

Al

Maybe I should have included a couple more photos in my original post. The black you see in the photo of the bottom of my airplane isn't gap. It is the carbon leading edge of the flap which projects half of its 5/16" diameter ahead of the balsa.

Al

godzilla · Jan 20, 2004 12:29 PM

#17 source
Is it overpowered? well, if a .65 in a 55oz, 550 sq
>in airplane isn't overpowered, it won't be for lack of
>trying. Seriously, I believe that it is difficult to
>overpower stunt ships as long as the wing loading and
>balance don't exceed competitive values. Speed is
>controlled by the prop no matter how large the engine. It
>is my opinion that excess power increases an airplane's line
>tension, penetration and, in general, an ability to shrug
>off many of the ill effects of wind and turbulence. The
>reprised Snaggletooth is then, a small, powerful, hopefully
>optimized airplane for all weather competition.

Amen.

Where did you get your tubes?

The City Smasher

Al Rabe · Jan 20, 2004 02:47 PM

#18 source
Brad,

Lone Star. What luck! They were thiner and cheaper than Mike's.

Al

catdaddy · Jan 23, 2004 09:44 AM

#24 source
Al,
This is "neat" and doesn't belong on page two.

regards,
Rick "catdaddy" Blankenship

rootbeard · Jan 23, 2004 12:41 PM

#25 source
Very Nice work!!!!

I only wish I knew half of what you Pro's have forgotten.

Thanks
Paul:7

Al Rabe · Jan 26, 2004 09:31 AM

#26 source
The flaps on the Mustang VII were covered with five layers of glass cloth and weighed 3 1/3 ozs. They were very stiff. The flaps for the Snaggletooth are now finished. They have an area of about 140 sq ins and weigh 3 1/2 ozs. I used a single layer of glass cloth and thinned epoxy over the carbon/balsa assembly. They were stiffer than the Mustang VII flaps but not impressively so. Funny thing happened, they got stiffer as the weeks passed. I guess the thinned epoxy is still hardening. In any case, in my opinion, these are as stiff as any flap needs to be. Now, they are probably stiffer than the flap horn wire. Now I'll be making a new set of flaps for the Critical Mass.

Al