What am I doing Wrong???

Hello all,
I hope someone can help me out, as my little 1/2A can't hold anymore glue.
First, I'm a old beginner. I flew a little as a kid and thought it would be fun to start flying again. I bought a Cox Piper Cub and had a lot of fun flying and crashing it at work during lunch intill it could not be put back together again. My next project was a Sig Akromaster that I have flown one time, level flight with a couple wingovers.
My problem involves the plane that replaced my Cub, a Sig Skyray that I built to fly during my lunch hour. While attempting a inside loop, as my plane hits the top of the loop, it's flight flattens out, stays inverted a couple seconds, then comes down like a brick. I can't tell if my lines are getting slack or what is happening. I only get one chance per day, as I fly over cement.
Todays glue is drying now. I'll be ready to try again tomorrow. I'm starting to draw a crowd, waiting to see the daily wreakage.
Any ideas as to what is going on???
Thanks,
Rob Johnson
Orange,Ca.

Hi Rob,
Welcome back! A couple really basic questions first. Are the controls really free working, and do you have the wind at your back when you try loops? Sounds like the controls might be neutralizing on slack lines. (???)
Bill <><

What Bill said.

LAST EDITED ON Jan-27-04 AT 12:46 PM (CDT)
 
You are stalling it until it runs out of flying speed.

>My problem involves the plane that replaced my Cub, a Sig Skyray that I built to
>fly during my lunch hour. While attempting a inside loop, as my plane hits the
>top of the loop, its flight flattens out, stays inverted a couple seconds,
>then comes down like a brick. I can't tell if my lines are getting slack or
>what is happening.

The correct procedure for a ROUND loop, as some will already have stated, and I didn't at first, is to smoothly apply SOME up control to create a LARGE half-loop. At first, use all the air you have, right up and over your head. A really BIG loop. Keep pointing your arm at the plane as it goes up and then it will actually need a bit LESS up control as is comes down, to avoid either a figure "9" or an odd non- round figure like the scripted lower case letter e.

Typically, beginners apply full up, way more up than needed, and keep holding that full deflection wrist angle, so that the plane mushes through only 3/4 of a turn, stalling all the while, losing speed (and altitude) until they hit the ground in the "tail" part of the figure 9. Your description sounds to me as if your plane has way too much up control and are keeping it applied fully so you scrub off almost all of your flying speed before getting inverted.

It's quite possible for high-powered planes that don't weigh much to "flip" or somersault through very small turns tighter than they can actually fly though, and still keep flying, but 049's are not typically high-powered at all. You need to OPEN UP the turns if my own long-distance guess about the accidents you are having is halfway accurate.

This can be eliminated through two fixes: first you must reduce the amount of travel that the elevator deflects. If it moves further than about twenty degrees either direction, it's too much to learn with.

Second, get a flying handle that allows you to adjust the lines closer to each other. They should be roughly two inches apart at that end when you are a beginner with no experienced help at hand.

When I was teaching beginners who wanted to apply full control for any change of attitude (like most children seemed to do), I used to strap a tongue depresser in their palms, extending up the wrist. I used an ace bandage wrapped fairly tightly so they COULDN'T flex their wrists at all.

.

Kiwi

This is a typical problem beginning flyers have. Because of the geometry of the lines, the model will automatically nuetralize at the top of the loop.

This is cause by your lack of input to continue to apply up at the top of the loop. Most beginner will just apply an abrupt UP CONTROL at the very beginning of the loop and not follow the motion through at the model continue around. Try applying less up at the beginning of the loop and then more when the model in inverted. Also the motion should be smooth, like you are make little circles with your arm, not jerky.

It sounds like you are not following the model with your arm. At the top of the loop your arm should be still pointing at the model. If your arm is low and the model is high it will see down elevator. If you were overcontrolling, or the lines were slack, you would see other effects.

I tend to think Herman and Dave are on the right track. As Dave says, you need to point your arm at the plane. Then any inputs you make will be truly "up" or "down."

I am going to make another suggestion: Try a lazy eight instead of a loop. Follow the plane through with your arm and bring the plane up and over. Then give it "down" control to bring it up and over the other way to complete the eight. That way you aren't pointing the plane at the ground. You are bringing it up, around, then up again.

And then my final suggestion for the day: Practice new maneuvers over grass. It is fine to fly on your lunch hour, but when you are practicing new maneuvers that you are not familiar with, it is best to do so over soft earth (tall grass, hay stacks, anything but concrete). You never see the combat boys flying over hard surfaces. They know they are going to crash. Beginners and people learning new maneuvers will occasionally (and sometimes more than occasionally) crash, too. Do it over a surface that makes it the least painful.

These other guys have way more recent experience. However, I helped a new flier with a Smoothie a bunch of years ago and it flew exactly as you describe, and it flew more steady inverted than upright . . .

We later discovered that it was slightly tailheavy. Two ounces of lead in the backplate cured the weird flight characteristics.

It's worth checking.

how long are the lines and what kind of lines?

Thanks for all the replys.
I think most of these replys are right on the mark.
Talking to a couple people that witness my crash and burns, they tell me my arm tends to fall as low as my hip as the plane hits the top of the loop. I sure don't know why I do this, but I do. Now I will know better and will try to correct this.
The elevator also has way to much movement, and my lines are spread out all the way on my control handel. I will make these adjustments tonight. Also, the plane is slightly tail heavy. CG is about 1/8" further back than the plans call for.
I did not fly today. Wanted to wait and see what the replys said to try.
I'll post results tomorrow!
Thanks again,
Rob Johnson
Orange,CA.