Soldering Adjustable Tank Brackets to Br

Does anyone have any advice or tips on how to solder Brodak adjustable tank brackets to one of their 4.5 oz tanks? I will admit to being the world's worst solderer, so any advice, regardless of how basic, would be appreciated. I do have a good soldering gun, so I don't think that's the problem. Thanks.

RBW65

Chances are that it IS your soldering gun. Not enough BTU's, too much metal, too much surface helping to cool it. A quick shot with a propane torch and Sta-Brite would work. I don't subscribe to using Sta-Brite inside the tank, but for attaching the bracket, it would be ok, I think. Neutralize & clean thoroughly, or rusty it will be. Steve

> Neutralize &
>clean thoroughly, or rusty it will be.

Channeling Yoda you are.

>> Neutralize &
>>clean thoroughly, or rusty it will be.
>
>Channeling Yoda you are.
>
> Brett

That cracked me up.. left me with this post flight vision..hmmmm outside squares,help you I can hmmmmmmmm

Sorry Steve...

Good flying

I have had real good luck using JB Weld....as with solder, scuffing the finish and keeping everything real clean is a key.

See Ya

C-L-E-A-N everything is critical. You have been given good advice; the tank tends to act as a heat sink. You need a torch with a good pinpoint flame to do this properly. It has to be hot, and the heat in the right place. Flux it just right (not too much) and it will work.
I used to do brazing for a living (such as it was), just takes practice- keep at it.

Jake

One basic I recall from the olden days is that your iron (or better yet, torch) needs to generate enough heat that the metal itself must get hot enough to melt the solder. If you cannot do that, you don't have enough heat and need to get a bigger fire, so to speak.

You clean the dickens out of the surfaces, get them as tight as you can (twisted wires, for instance--clamped parts pressed together in your case--keeping the clamps well away from the joint so that they don't soak the heat) then use the soldering tip or heat source to heat the joint. Put the heat source on one side of, say, a wire entering the PC board and then let the solder rest gently on the other.

If you get it right, the joint itself--the metal components you are trying to solder--gets hot enough that it will melt the solder, liquifying the resin if there is any, and the resulting hot liquid metal will flow by osmosis into the joint and adhere to both hot surfaces that you are trying to join. Then you remove the solder and after a bit, take the heat source away and let the joint formed by molten metal congeal into a mass that connects the two surfaces.

If the joint cannot melt the solder, the solder will not hold the joint. And it's all to easy to melt the solder with the soldering iron or flame if you are impatient.

If you heat the solder with the tip of the iron or flame, it will essentially drip onto the surfaces, cool on contact and do no real good.

Halfway between these two extremes is what we used to call a 'cold solder joint' where the solder seemed at casual observation to hold the two components together, but never really got hot enough to flow onto/into the surfaces being joined. A little vibration and a cold solder joint will let go.

It takes a little practice, but when you see the actual parts you are trying to join get hot enough to melt the solder, you will know that you are ready to make a good joint.

I'd practice soldering a couple of pieces of tin together and pulling them apart until I knew what I was doing an looking at--if I were you and wanted the tank to stay attached to the airplane.

Forgive the diatribe.

The first computer I ever owned I soldered together. And it ran for years.

Cy.

I have used a regular soldering gun to build tanks and to attach brackets. I tin the brackets and the tank where the brackets will go. This is done by heating the area you want to solder and applying the solder in a thin film to each part. Kind of like double gluing with ambroid. Then I just hold the brackets to the tank with needle nose plyers or forceps, and apply heat until the solder flows between the parts. Hope this helps.

JB weld, just make sure surfaces are
clean and lightly scuff up the surfaces

Wow, right after a thread warning not to use a torch to solder tin tanks we now have a thread where almost everyone is recommending using a torch.

RBW65,

First read this thread, lots of good info on soldering.
http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dcforum/DCForumID1/7833.html

If you are not an expert with a torch and soldering, you do not, should not, use a torch. you will take the tin plate off the tank and it will rust. Follow Brett's post in the above thread and if your iron is big enough you shouldn't have any problems.

The only thing you should use a torch in in this hobby is to loosen up a new engine before you fire it for the first time.

That outta make em scream!

You can't Silver Solder with a torch, but with care you can take a tank apart with one.

I generally use it to heat up ;ieces of wire to melt holes in foam with, that's about it.

>The only thing you should use a torch in in this hobby is to
>loosen up a new engine before you fire it for the first
>time.
>
>
>That outta make em scream!
>
>You can't Silver Solder with a torch, but with care you can
>take a tank apart with one.
>
>I generally use it to heat up ;ieces of wire to melt holes
>in foam with, that's about it.
>
>From somewhere near Parkville, Mo.
>William Crane
>AMA 6733

Since when? It must have been my imagination then that I was doing it for 7 years.

Jake

Ya but like you say you have been using a torch for 7 years, the poor guy that tries it for the first time doesn't have 7 years of expierence to work from.

>Ya but like you say you have been using a torch for 7 years,
>the poor guy that tries it for the first time doesn't have 7
>years of expierence to work from.

Whoa Bob!,
I agree with you. Sorry, it is my puny typing skills- can't make myself clear it seems. What I was refering to was the line about silver soldering (actually it is silver brazing) not being done with a torch- that is exactly the way it is done. I just use plain old soft solder and haven't had one fail yet, but you are absolutely correct that you have to be VERY (underline that twice too) careful or you will ruin the tank.

Jake

First off Jake, nobody, I MEAN NOBODY questions my answers, they are Gold Standard!

Ok, back to reality, what Bob and you said was what I meant too. And most people don't even pay attention, that's why they don't question my answers. Looks like ya'll figured it out.

Went flying in the snow yesterday, couldn't take it anymore.

Snow? Good grief, you are a lot tougher than I am. We just (usually) have the cold and wet around here. Today it is sunny and about 64- ground is still like mush though.

Jake

LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-04 AT 04:55 PM (CDT)
 
I've had the ARF Nobler ready to go for, well, ever. little twisten of the flaps to do, and figure out why my 6 ounce tank fills up at less than 4, other than that it flew fine.

Got pictures

Every time I'd land, I filled the cowl up with snow. Brodak 40 pulling it nicely on the 10x5? I'll have to look when I open the cowl up tonight. I have to adjust the tank a bit too as it is rich inverted.

Slick...
Still looks a tad cold though!

Jake

Hmmmm.....Bob, I thought the same thing! The Tulsa Gluedobbers have a website that is replete with "how to" articles from the workshop. Included is a soldering article by Randy Ryan that is just about all one needs. It is a SSW thread, I believe. I tried a "solder" search on SSW but my PC doesn't bring up anything in Archives. I bet Bob Reeves could post the Gluedobbers link to that article. Before I leave this thread, I will reiterate what others have stated in the past, namely to use a soda/water solution to neutralize acid IF you have used acid/core/flux in your solder job. Like the gift that keeps on giving, acid flux just keeps on working. Best regards,

LAST EDITED ON Feb-14-04 AT 02:00 PM (CDT)
 
http://www.tulsacl.com/WorkShop.html

About 3/4 way down the page.. It's a long page.

I had forgoten about it. Thanks Dale

>http://www.tulsacl.com/WorkShop.html
>
>About 3/4 way down the page.. It's a long page.
>
>I had forgoten about it. Thanks Dale

It's a long page for sure, but that's why I put the buttons up at the top. Just go to the workshop page http://www.tulsacl.com/WorkShop.html
and click on the button that has Randy Ryans name on it...the one about soldering.

While I'm here I want to thank everybody that has given permission to repost things once posted on this forum. I would also encourage anybody that wants to submit something to do so. I'll get it posted when I get the chance.

Thanks again.

Don't Torch that tank!!!

Resoldering the tank will be harder than the original installion.

During the time you were flying the airplane, oxyidation was attacking you solder joint. Now, I am assuming this simple because as you say the solder joint broke loose. I have crashed airplaes straight into asphalt before and I don't ever recalling a tank bracket breaking loose.

Reinstallation:

(1) Get the tank bracket area clean. Use sand paper to buff the old solder, you want this left over solder to be bright and shinny. This will clean off any oxyidation let behind. Why, Oxydation will defuse the heat that is applied to a area and this will require you to use more heat from the solder iron to complete the repair.

(2) Use your soldering iron to smooth out the left over solder, on the tank. Do not reuse the old bracket. Throw it away and get a new one from you stash.

(3) Take a piece of sand paper and buff the under side of the new bracket and any area that you thing the solder might come into contact with. Most metals have protective finishes applied to them at the factory, this is to keep down the amount of oxydation that will form on the surface of the metal. If you try to solder with this protective finish still present, it will turn the tip blach and your solder pool will be contamanated, thus a very poor solder joint.

(4) Now place your tank down on a piece of wood, make sure it is laying flat. If the other tank bracket is still in place and in good condition, screw the tank down to the piece of wood. Now apply enough electronic grade solder flux to the underside of the bracket and to the tank . Make sure some flux squeeses out from under neath the bracket Fix the bracket in place on the tank where you wnat it, now screw this bracket down to the board.

(5) Do both brackets look good and level? Is your tank flat aganist the board? Hey, lets get to soldering.

(6) Use a soldering iron with a heat range of 60 to 100 watts, that is all you will need. Now if all you have is an electrical blow tourchshove(150 - 200 watts) keep a wet sponge handy to cool down the solder iron tip from time to time. Now place the unheated iron tip into the flux container, lets heat up the iron and wipe it off any melted residue from the flux. Is you tip nice and shinny?, Good.

(7) Now let's tin that iron tip with a good non-acid core, electronic grade solder. As you tin your tip keep in mind that you will need enough solder on that tip to at least make one pass on a bracket side. You can add solder as your iron travels, however be care not to melt out your flux from under the bracket You will be making 3 passes, onen each side and the front.
Lets start on the side on the bracket. Tin your tip with about one and one half inch of .045 solder. Now place your tip on the joint between the tank and the bracket. As the flux melts if will pull solder into the joint you are soldering. After a soldering pass on all three sides of the tank bracket clean off the bracket and your new soldering job should be bright and shinny, (Good Joints).

It does not take a blow tourch to make a good solder joint. If a person can, he should use as little heat as necessary to facilitate the repair. One thing, forget about flat soldering the entire bracket to the tank. I have rather see three good solder joints, than guess about one.

Now pressure test your tank by placing a piece of fuel tubing from the overflow vent to the fill vent, place a squeez bulb 0n to the fuel pick up vent and place the tank into a sink of water. Squeez the bulb, did you see any bubbles? Good, I didn't think you would.

Good solder joints are not impossable to get its just like flying practice, practice, practice.

Good Flying,
Mike Clark
(MikeC)

Don't Torch that tank!!!

Resoldering the tank will be harder than the original installion.

Again, it all depends on how handy you are with it. I use a torch because I am used to it and it works well for me- if you aren't- don't try it without a LOT of practice first.

Jake

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Everything above and not including reply #15.The only other thing is CLEAN IT.

In cleaning,solvents are best,if you're working with virgin tin plated metal.If so using anything but a very mild abrasive will damage the tin plate and you will have trouble retinning it.You only have to worry about oxides if the tin plate has been damaged,worn ,or rusted through.If this is the case use "Scotchbrite"to clean it until you see only clean steel,then solvent again until a clean paper towel comes away clean after rubbing it dry.Don,t touch it with your fingers.Handle it with another clean towel.If you use sand paper,you WILL remove the tin.If you use steel wool,you'll remove the tin.If th e part is rusted,a stainless steel wire brush can be used to remove the heavy stuff.

The purpose of the flux is to lift and suspend oxides so that an active metal surface is exposed to the molten solder.But it can't handle heavy rust,oil,or dirt.You can tell if the flux is doing it's job by how wet the heated area is.If there are any spots not wetted by the molten flux,the area is not clean enough.If the flux is working,all you need do is heat the area with the iron and apply solder to the metal at the joint.Keep the heat on the part until solder fills the joint(you'll see it go in)and add solder,a little at a time,until the joint is just filled.If you use rosin core electrical solder,there's little chance of damaging the tank doing it this way,as the melting point is lower than the (probably 50/50)solder it was made with.As mentioned above it's a good idea to"tin"the individual parts first.

For soldering impaired person like myself I was found a non soldering solution that worked wonders! Cut out of hard plywood a backplate for the tank. Make it oversize on both sides, cut the grooves large enough for a 4-40 bolt to get through. User fish tank sealer to glue the plywood to the back of the tank, let it sit for 24 hours and you are ready to roll!

All the soldering I've done to date has failed in the most inopportune times. Finding out about fishtank sealer was the best thing that happened to my profile tanks.