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All American Sr

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Circle Burner · Feb 15, 2004 06:54 PM

#0 source
LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-04 AT 08:12 AM (CDT)
 
I'm finishing up a All American Sr from a Umland kit. Can't really figure out what to power it with. I'm thinking of a OS Max 35, or maybe a OS 25 FP.....what do you guys think of these choices. I want to stay away from Fox because I really prefer the OS motors.

Tim McTigue · Feb 15, 2004 06:55 PM

#1 source
I think the 25FP would be plenty... I plan to use a Fox 35.

Tim

MAAC 65703

william davis · Feb 15, 2004 07:25 PM

#2 source
John,
My vote would be for the OS LA 25, I flew one of Watt Moores the other week, really liked it on a Flight Streak ARF, It surprised me with the power and low vibration.

William Davis

shholt · Feb 15, 2004 08:17 PM

#3 source
Which OS 35 were you considering? The older Max S is light and runs much like a Fox 35 which powered the original. The FP 35 is much heavier and is probably not very happy with a 10X6 prop. I'm not sure there is clearance for a larger diameter, and would worry about torque reaction on take off.
Steve

The older I get, the better I used to fly!

Circle Burner · Feb 15, 2004 08:22 PM

#4 source
The older Max S. I'm thinking that the 25 FP should power it well. I run a lot of 25 LA's and everyone seems to think the 25 FP is more powerful.

In the bones/picture it weighs 13oz.

Tim McTigue · Feb 15, 2004 09:24 PM

#5 source
I've been running an OS 25 FP on a Ukey 40, which is a LOT bigger/heavier than I think the AA Sr. will turn out, so I'm sure it'll have more than enough power for it.

Tim

MAAC 65703

Lou Crane · Feb 16, 2004 12:54 AM

#6 source
John,

...Looks nice in the "bones"...

Last AA,Sr. I flew had a left-hand shaft Fox 35, no tipweight...

The design doesn't need tons of power, really. Your alternate engines sound suitable. Small (I hope) point to consider:-- the Fox 35 works just fine with a uniflow tank 1" tall mounted ON the mount beams. That goes for upright and inverted installations. I haven't checked the FP or LA 25's to see whether they are sensitive to tank height relative to the engine...

Uniflow venting makes tank reference location just that much more critical that, even with muffler tapped pressure, you could notice a clear variance between upright and inverted run. ...IF the engine is sensitive to this. It appears you've closed-in the front end already, so I presume a 1" high uniflow tank is inside. I know a Fox 35 would be happy, and hope your alternatives will be.

I made up a break-in bench allowing simulation of the DIRECTIONS of vectors acting on the tank in a flying model. QUANTITY of the vectors can't be applied, of course, except in flight. The directions are enough to indicate response to a tank that is too high or too low -- riching where the tank is too high, and vice versa. This has succeeded in nailing tank height on about a dozen models, mostly using "odd" engines (many diesels, a sparker, other non-Fox35 pieces.)

It does not seem to have much to do with spraybar height above/below mount surface. It DOES have to do with the individual engine type... Oddest tested was the older big-case Fox 40BBSchn, mounted inverted. A 1" tall tank needed to be about 3/8" off the beams... Ran fine when the tank was centered for the engine, with spraybar anywhere from 1/2" to 7/8" "above" (i.e., towards cylinder head)the beam surfaces.

\BEST\LOU

SRiese5283 · Feb 16, 2004 01:36 AM

#7 source
I fly mine on a McCoy 29 series 21 It weight is 27 oz and is a Super flyer

Scott Riese

Ty Marcucci · Feb 16, 2004 01:37 AM

#8 source
Of the two choices you have, the OS .25 FP would be the best bet. The OS 35 might be more power than you need for that bird. I use a L&J Fox .35 in mine and it has more than enough power.

EddyR · Feb 16, 2004 07:52 AM

#9 source
John One thing to watch out for is the plans say no wing tip weight.But the inboard wing should not drop. The plane should be level not dropping inbord or outboard wing when balanced through the center. Hal DeBolt used a Fox 29 and his did not drop the inboard wing. Many poeple have problems with the plane coming in at them on take off if the inboard wing is heavy.
Ed

Circle Burner · Feb 16, 2004 08:16 AM

#10 source
EddyR - I will balance mine per your suggestions. That was actually my next question. Thanks.

Lou - I left the top half of the firewall off so I can slide in the tank from the front. It is a 3.5 oz uni-flow tank that I will be using. 3.5 Oz is way to much for the 25 FP so I might shorten the tank slightly or not fill it all of the way. For OTS the 25 FP might not even need 2.5oz to finish the pattern.

Lou Crane · Feb 16, 2004 06:09 PM

#11 source
Glad to hear the front is open!

Don't know if you'll have any fiddle room to raise or lower the tank in case there's an effect from height. It isn't likely to need more than 1/8 or 3/16 at worst.

Many of Sheeks designs left the tank bay open toward the engine, and he did provide some vertical for trimming...

Hope it all goes as nicely as it looks...

\BEST\LOU

Kiwi · Feb 19, 2004 04:14 PM

#13 source
>Glad to hear the front is open!
>
>Don't know if you'll have any fiddle room to raise or lower the tank in case
>there's an effect from height. It isn't likely to need more than 1/8 or 3/16
>at worst.
>
Hal would've been designing the nose for a gasoline tank, smaller than a glow fuel tank, with batteries and condenser tucked in under the tank.

>Many of Sheeks designs left the tank bay open toward the engine, and he did
>provide some vertical for trimming...
>
Jack was still building other folks' kits when the AAS was released by dMeco, I'd be willing to bet on it.

.

Kiwi

**

Stunt1 · Feb 19, 2004 11:29 AM

#12 source
Stunt1

Hello John,

I know Walter makes some nice kits, but I just had to commend you on what is obviously "Beautiful Wood Workmanship".

Regards,

Bob Lampione

N42222 · Feb 20, 2004 09:42 AM

#14 source
I've had a lot of these planes-all Fox35 powered(One with an early Combat Fox). The conditions you fly in may enter into your power decision. All Americans that fly well in still air may not do so well if you fly in Wichita, Tucson, Tulsa or Dallas, if they are marginally powered. Marvin Denny's did well with a Fox in wind, but his left arm (flying hand)is very strong from years of whipping. Not just in Stunt! (That last statement should bring out "Mr. AllAmerican" to say a few words). Best regards,

Jim P · Feb 20, 2004 10:05 AM

#15 source
I have done two All Americans, one with a 25FP, one with a Fox 35. Both are about equal weight wise and CG is pretty close assuming an overall weight of 28-30 oz or maybe even a little more. These build light!
I am by no means a Fox lover but the Fox powered model suited me better in that it would do the entire pattern in a 4 stroke in moderate wind and was especially nice when running in a 4-2 breaking mode. The FP 25 was somewhat fast and I was never able to get it to a speed I liked with adequate tension despite much experimenting with props and line length. Still, the 25FP could be a good choice. Perhaps the 25LA would be better despite a little more weight with it's more gentile run.
A 35S would work-a 35/40 FP would be a real rocket and would need lots of tail weight.