Jr Satan

After I get my Flight Streaks up and running, I fancy doing a Jr Satan.

What engines can you guys recomend for a bit of fun sport flying with the Jr Satan, I must build the Jr Satan as I made a real nice one as a teenager but it was let down by the crappy Russian diesel engine that I installed, at this time I started getting into RC and the Satan got forgotton.

How would a Tee Dee 15 go in the Jr Satan ?

Many Thanks Barrie

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to get over it.

I had a TD15 special on one in my teenage years. How did it go? it went like stink on ####. A blast. Dennis

Mine had an OS Max II 15 on it with a pacifier tank. It was plenty fast for a sport model. Since this is a small airplane, any light 15 should power it well.

Steve
The older I get, the better I used to fly!

Steve

Mine had a Russian engine called a sokal 2.5, it remains the worst Internal Combustion engine that I have delt with, not one redeaming feature.

Did you run with the OS silencer?

>Did you run with the OS silencer?
>
>Barrie

No silencer. This was years ago (although I still have the plane)and I don't think anyone ran mufflers in control line back then.

Steve

PS: If you're looking for an engine, you might try a .10 FP. Similar in power and weight to the old .15's.

Dennis

Thanks for the reply, I do like the idea of a Tee Dee 15.

There are, and were then, better engines than the TD. Super Tigre and Rossi among them.

And where are you planning to get TD heads for less than $10?

That may well be, but the TD is still light and a good motor. BTW, Tigger and Rossi parts don't exactly grow on trees either anymore.

Jake

Were the TD's hard on the glow head? I have seen the glow heads for silly money, seems like a conversion to some kind of tapered plug system might be in order, Nelson or similar.

Why buy a old TeeDee 15 when parts are going to be difficult to get.
Why not try one of the new Norvel .074. One persone in our club has one and it a real killer. The speed is comparable to the 1/2A Cyclone engine, but at a fraction of the cost.

>Why buy a old TeeDee 15 when parts are going to be difficult
>to get.
>Why not try one of the new Norvel .074. One persone in our
>club has one and it a real killer. The speed is comparable
>to the 1/2A Cyclone engine, but at a fraction of the cost.

Well I'd not go that route. It is trying to make a combat ship fly at stunt speeds. The Jr Satan is a bit too much plane for the Norvel.074 to do justice to.
As that's my non expert opinion I'd recommend an OS15FP/La or a Norvel 15 bushing motor, and at the lower end a Fox 15X. That is if you can grab it out of one of those professional Fox 15 hurlers.
Combat planes are supposed to be a rush.A good combat ship will really sharpen your senses and let you know that your still alive.
Dennis

Dont worry, we only hurl the Slant Plug version not the .15X. Larry

by any act, error, or omission, I have, intentionally or
unintentionally, displayed any breedist, disciplinist, sexist, racist,
culturalist, nationalist, regionalist, localist, ageist, lookist, ableist,
sizeist, speciesist, intellectualist, socioeconomicist, ethnocentrist,
phallocentrist, heteropatriarchalist, or other violation of the rules of
political correctness, known or unknown, I am not sorry and I encourage you
to get over it.

Larry the 15x IS the slant plug The Rocket 15 is the steel fin straight plug. Sheesh you think that you might go throw Enya 15's or something
Dennis

Never saw any need to hurl an Enya, at least they would run.

Larry,
I know I am one of the luckiest guys around. In 40+ years I've never had an engine that wouldn't run. More than half a dozen slant plug and regular Fox 15's in there, too! LOL!!
Bill <><

We have combat people member in our club who put Norvel .074 in there 36" combat ship as a cheaper alternative to the Cyclone.

It does not look like stunt speed to me. I think there going about 90 + mph. I think they are turning a 6 X 4 about 25K or more.

Maybe I will try to shoot some video of it the next they our out. But, I don't thing a Cox Tee Dee is faster.

>We have combat people member in our club who put Norvel .074
>in there 36" combat ship as a cheaper alternative to the
>Cyclone.
>
>It does not look like stunt speed to me. I think there
>going about 90 + mph. I think they are turning a 6 X 4
>about 25K or more.
>
>Maybe I will try to shoot some video of it the next they our
>out. But, I don't thing a Cox Tee Dee is faster.

by any act, error, or omission, I have, intentionally or
unintentionally, displayed any breedist, disciplinist, sexist, racist,
culturalist, nationalist, regionalist, localist, ageist, lookist, ableist,
sizeist, speciesist, intellectualist, socioeconomicist, ethnocentrist,
phallocentrist, heteropatriarchalist, or other violation of the rules of
political correctness, known or unknown, I am not sorry and I encourage you
to get over it.

I think we are both talking about 2 different things here. A modern 1/2A can indeed have a 36 inch or bigger w/s but it is a different plane entirely then a Jr Satan. The satan has a thicker airfoil and is really heavier then any 1/2A combat ship that I've handled recently
You would have some work to fit that small a motor into the plane and have it work well.Dennis

I could be wrong, maybe I thinking of another model, but I thought the Jr. Satan was a little bitty thing (28" span).
I don't remember that the airfoil was thicker that any of the current combat stuff. In fact, some of the modern Mejzlik stuff look even thicker.

>I could be wrong, maybe I thinking of another model, but I
>thought the Jr. Satan was a little bitty thing (28" span).
>I don't remember that the airfoil was thicker that any of
>the current combat stuff. In fact, some of the modern
>Mejzlik stuff look even thicker.

Super Darn close. The wingspan is 29".

Mine has an Enya 15-III, not the fastest plane around, but the engine is plenty to pull it at a nice 65-70mph. Engine not made any more but as many have said here almost impossible to wear out.

The way I recall things, the kit was out early enough in the 1960's that bladders & pacifiers hadn't taken over completely. Some folks were still using hard tanks with crankcase pressure. The plans showed a hard tank with atmospheric vents, I'm pretty sure. I may build another of those some day as well (like someone's favorite sig-line "too many planes, too little time!")

Two friends of mine were learning to fly two in a circle and wanted an easy step up from sport profiles to combat practice. We used 19's - a couple of Torps and a couple of Red Heads. We covered them in nylon and used HobbyPoxy paint on them (heavy). They did just fine. The Torps needed to be tuned a little rich to be fair against the McCoys, but the difference wasn't huge. A TeeDee 15 on a bladder probably would've been a lot faster. I doubt any of our Satans were as fast as 70 mph at their best speeds, but my friends weren't really wanting them too fast yet.

Most 15's much newer than twenty years will be plenty strong for some 80-90 mph flying, with the right props on such a comparatively small plane. You could take a selection of props along and if the top speed was more than you wanted to deal with, slow it down with a flatter pitched prop.

.

Kiwi

The Jr Satan plan shows a Cox Special .15 (looks like a TD to me)

My last one had a Fox .15x (shiny case slant head) running on crankcase pressure. I used 25% castor and 5% nitro fuel and a Top Flite 8x4 white nylon prop. That little Fox really screamed and there was no lack of speed. I never timed it so I don't know how fast it flew. Sure, a more modern engine would be better in competition, but for sport type goofing around flying the Fox is pretty hard to beat.

I think that using a newer (and heavier) engine would result in the plane being nose heavy though.

I paid $10 for the Fox new in 1976 and for the price it can't be beat. I don't know why people seem to hate them so much. I've got several and they all run well.

Maybe some of the Fox hurlers could hurl them my way!

LAST EDITED ON Mar-10-04 AT 08:33 AM (CDT)
 
>I think that using a newer (and heavier) engine would result in the plane being
>nose heavy though.
>
The Red Head 19's are a lot heavier than most 15's. At least as heavy as the typical modern 15 (although not after adding a muffler). But the Satan is short-coupled, F2D type mufflers are very tiny, an open exhaust on milder 15's isn't offensive, and the CG doesn't get moved very far.

>I paid $10 for the Fox new in 1976 and for the price it can't be beat. I don't know
>why people seem to hate them so much. I've got several and they all run well.
>
It's only a minority. It seems that a higher than acceptable number of 15X's had quality control problems at some point in time and got some kiddies' danders up, from which they never recovered, even when they finally reached an age at which one would assume adult behavior should be the norm. Had I gotten a less-than usable one from Fox, I am sure I'd have sent it back and expected a replacement.

My kids had several of those about the time you got yours. We still have one of the originals. None gave us a lick of trouble, and one of them ran amazingly well for the low price we paid (between 1973 and 1975 for us).

.

Kiwi

I used to have a Jr Satan (yes, we could get them in England), and I had a PAW 2.5cc diesel in it. It flew fast enough for me!!
Trickymicky.

Here is the skinny on the Norvel .074. My buddy has one on a ½ A combat ship that he got from George Cleveland. Not sure of the model. We also have Fora’s (.049) on planes as well. The Norvel has the carb removed and an open venturi with a remote needle valve running on pressure. We vary between 15% and 25% nitro. I’m sure you all know that the Fora and Cyclone engines run like stink. On 35’ foot lines you are very busy. What is amazing is that the Norvel .074 is running right up there with the Fora’s. I’m not sure what the weight of the Jr. Satan is but I thought it was a ½ A plane??? If so – the Norvel should work. It sure works on the modern combat planes.

Cary,

The Lil' Satan was 1/2A, the Jr. Satan was for a .15. Mine has a Perfect #8 tank buried in the wing and I think the mounting holes are for a OS Max-III .15. I started rebuilding it a couple of years ago and never finished it. I had to repair some plywood (booms, firewall) that had delaminated. Next comes the hangar rash.

LAST EDITED ON Mar-10-04 AT 11:26 AM (CDT)
 
The "Lil' Satan" kit is the one someone was building quite a few of for sale as RTF's on eBay; about 18" span, so it's really far too small for a Fora-class 049, even for a Cox TeeDee 049, really. Fine with an 020, probably, or most of the milder Baby and Golden Bee reed valve engines from Cox. The Jr. is a down-sized VooDoo with an extended skid under the engine pod; heavier than a RTF Half-A Baby Wakkerman, maybe half the size, probably even less than that, of the Wakkermann F2D from GRS.

.

Kiwi

Re the old baffle Foxes...although the Slant Plug monoblock .15 has more power than the earlier Steel Fin (center plug or offset), I have found that there is more variation within these two design types than between them.

I have a bunch of these, just like many reading this (ditto for McCoy Redheads, reed Coxes), and my best running Fox .15 just happens to be the very first version, the Steel Fin with center plug.

Yes, power is modest, but the power to weight ratio is pretty decent.

GMA was very fond of the little .15 Rockets. He told me it was "A baby ,35 Stunt" in running character, One mod he suggested was to put the forged conrod out of the .15XX in one in place of the cast factory standard rod.

Jake

I wish mine had a PAW instead of that Russian piece of junk.