Thin Wall Aluminum Tubing?

Where can I get some thin wall Aluminum tubing?

I am wanting to make a muffler. What issue was Noel's article about how to make a muffler?

I have been to several metal supply places around dallas and they all just deal in steel.

I just need some scrap stuff to mess around with.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Check into some R/C helicopter tailbooms.

Also check any of your friends that smoke cigars, or go go and pick up an indelible marker of the right size. They can both come in thin wall aluminum.

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-04 AT 00:29 AM (CDT)
 
A couple of times in the past I have purchased basters with a thin aluminum bodies from a kitchen supply dept where you might buy can openers egg beaters etc. Very cheap. They have a rubber bulb on one end. Good luck Keith V Also check out mousse cans as used in hair spray, there used to be an article somewhere about making mufflers from them

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-04 AT 00:51 AM (CDT)
 
Doug.
Go to: http://smallparts.com/ and click on Materials and then on Aluminum Round tubing..... Or try www.mcmaster.com In the search window type alum tubing they have it also.

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-04 AT 01:43 AM (CDT)
 
Small Parts and MCS (McMasters) are good. You also might try Online Metals. Watch out for McMasters. Once you order something, you'll get catalogs out the wazoo forever.

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Info/OnlineMetals.php

How about taking the tubing from an old lawn chair??? Gil

Try (Aircraft Spruce and Specialties)they have all types of aluminum tubing ect in different wall thicknesses ect.Dennis

>Where can I get some thin wall Aluminum tubing?
>
>I am wanting to make a muffler. What issue was Noel's
>article about how to make a muffler?
>
>I have been to several metal supply places around dallas and
>they all just deal in steel.
>
>I just need some scrap stuff to mess around with.
>
>Any ideas?

I've had excellent results with McMaster-Carr- once you find what you need in the incredibly massive selection (something like a 3000 page catalog (indexed and on-line). But punch in the order, wait 2-3 days, and you have your stuff.

Doug, your timing is good because I just started making liteweight tube mufflers.<23to26gram>All Welded construction,no press fits, roll pins or screws.I have .875 OD & 1" .028 wall.The outlet tube is .437OD .312ID so you can open it up all the way to about .375 or anywhere in between.Im in the prmotional stages,so it would be worth it to Email me with your ph#.Thanks Scott Dinger [email protected]

Scott is famous for his metal work.

Another good source are the local machine shops. Not all machine shops deal with alum fabrication but if they don't, they know someone who does. I have always found that they are very helpful with the whos, the wheres, and the whys.

I bought an aluminum extension pole (for painting, window cleaning etc) at Home Depot. It was anodized and provided 2 diatmeters of high quality tubing to choose from. Wall thinkness was around .030". I've made two mufflers so far and have enough material for 8 or 10 more.
Regards,

LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-04 AT 07:41 AM (CDT)
 
Doug,
I've looked into this somewhat. I've built mufflers before and had them built for specific applications. When you talk about thin wall tubing, you quickly run into the problem of how to hold it together. For 2 stroke engines you can sometimes get away with built up mufflers attached to a header with a silicon coupler which will run cool enough to get away with JB Weld construction (and lots of wraps of thread and CA). When I tried this with a Saito, the thing blew apart almost immediately.

With thin wall tubing, you have the problem of how to hold it together. Thin wall tubing doesn't weld very well. It tends to burn up. I still have that damaged 4 stroke muffler. I am considering the possibility of reassembling it with rivets (and JB Weld, and thread and CA). It was designed specifically for the BBQB Bearcat. If I can get it to hold together, it could be used in either the Bearcat or Critical Mass.

Basically, every airplane I've built since 1970 (except the Bearcat) have used home made custom mufflers, and I intended to use a home made custom muffler on it.

I'm glad to see your interest in building a muffler. Too many people in this hobby think the local hobby store is the only source for their needs. If we really want something bad enough, we will find a way to make it.

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Al:

AMen!!

LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-04 AT 00:29 AM (CDT)
 
Doug,

So you wanna build a muffler! Every airplane I ever built which carried a muffler, excepting profiles, had internal mufflers. They were all hand made by me excepting the parts I had machined and welded. Even the BBQB muffler, the color photo below, was fashioned to satisfy a need for an effective internal muffler which fit enclosed. When it blew apart from four stroke heat, I was lucky enough to be able to get the stock Saito muffler inside, you know, the one you can't get any longer. I still plan to resurrect the BBQB muffler with a combination of fasteners, rivets for strength and heat resistance, CA, JB Weld, and thread to close the can.

The first photo shows Snaggletooth's muffler. The elbow adapter attached to the engine was carved from a solid block of aluminum, by me, with a Moto Tool. It only took four or five hours and had to fit. The body and outlet tubes were machined to reduce the tubing wall thickness for weight control and welded. The engine crankcase was also welded up with a 1/2" larger mass of aluminum and oversize head fins machined to cure a heat problem on an airplane which won the NATs, Walker, and went to the World Championships. The head was custom with a button combustion chamber insert. The crank was machined and heat treated to my specifications and drawings. It was a true .60 which fit ST 46 mounts.

The second photos is my first internal muffler used in the Sea Fury. I had the round parts machined. I carved the adapter. Worth the effort? Won NATs Open Stunt 1972 and 1973 and the Walker in l973.

The third photo is the BBQB/Critical Mass photo. I will modify its construction and fly it yet in the BBQB or Critical Mass. When I initially made it, I thought the remote mounting of the muffler, connected by the silicon tube, would isolate the muffler from conducted heat enough to survive the remaining heat load. I was wrong, but the cure is apparent.

The last photo is the current Saito stock muffler in the BBQB. It is OK but subject to the mounting threads wearing out from vibration of the unsupported mass of the muffler. My muffler weighs less, will be less restrictive and should be quieter and last longer.

Found another couple of photos os the original Snaggletooth muffler.

Al,

Yep. I tried an aluminum header pipe on a Saito. Lasted a whole 3 flight I think.

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Here's the one I made for the F4F-3,for in-cowl,and scale outlet position.It's made from a washing machine drain pipe which you can get at any hardware store.They come in a couple of diameters and lengths and have a large radius bend(the part I used)and two straight sections.The wall is about .020".

The outlets are 1/2"Al refrigeration tubing,bent by hand.

The "header"section is a short piece of DuBro exhaust extension carved to shape with a Dremel.The whole thing is TIG welded together,then cleaned up with the Dremel.

>Ron B.
>F4Fguy
>
>Here's the one I made for the F4F-3,for in-cowl,and scale
>outlet position.It's made from a washing machine drain pipe
>which you can get at any hardware store.They come in a
>couple of diameters and lengths and have a large radius
>bend(the part I used)and two straight sections.The wall is
>about .020". (snip)

And where does the cooling air go? Out the gear hnousing maybe? Interesting shroud arrangement. One of our modelers up here made a GeeBee, big radial cowl, large firewall behind the engine. He had ample air outlets, but the engine was overheating. I suggested the firewall as the problem. He put a wedge behind the engine and solved the problem. Yours looks like a more elloquent approach (albeit, a lot more work).

>>Ron B.
>>F4Fguy
>>
>>Here's the one I made for the F4F-3,for in-cowl,and scale
>>outlet position.It's made from a washing machine drain pipe
>>which you can get at any hardware store.They come in a
>>couple of diameters and lengths and have a large radius
>>bend(the part I used)and two straight sections.The wall is
>>about .020". (snip)
>
>And where does the cooling air go? Out the gear hnousing
>maybe? Interesting shroud arrangement. One of our modelers
>up here made a GeeBee, big radial cowl, large firewall
>behind the engine. He had ample air outlets, but the engine
>was overheating. I suggested the firewall as the problem.
>He put a wedge behind the engine and solved the problem.
>Yours looks like a more elloquent approach (albeit, a lot
>more work).

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Leonard:

The cooling air from the cyl/head goes through the duct and out the scale cooling gills.The exhaust is cooled by air exiting the lower cooling gills on each side of the exh.pipes.Not shown is the scale dummy engine which limits and directs the entry air to each area to ensure high velocity and to maintain a 2:1 ratio outlet:inlet.I can't show it since ,as you know,the F4F was lost to enemy action,and I never documented this.The small Al block at the stack is the tank pressure takeoff.The red stuff is high temp silicone.

Relative to another thread some time ago,the needle is remotely controlled through a flex shaft.This is simply a long extension spring of .030"MW close wound on a 1/16"mandrel.The needle is soldered to one end and a 4-40 socket head to the other.It's accessed through the top portside cooling gill.

The stories of this plane are legendary- I've heard a ton about the appearance points it recieved, but I've not heard how it flew. Could you describe what it was like- how it handled, cornered, etc? Was each flight a major undertaking or were you able to pretty much "gas and go"? Thank you,

>The stories of this plane are legendary- I've heard a ton
>about the appearance points it recieved, but I've not heard
>how it flew. Could you describe what it was like- how it
>handled, cornered, etc? Was each flight a major undertaking
>or were you able to pretty much "gas and go"? Thank you,

Ron B.
F4Fguy

Dale:

Pretty much gas and go really,once the bugs were gone.The only trim problem was a slight twist in the outboard flap,which was cured by cutting the aileron loose and giving it about 1/32"down re the flap.The leadouts were set initially using Wild Bill's data from AM,and I never had any reason to make any major change to them.Even the tip weight was almost right,needing only 1/4 oz more.The Rabe rudder worked as it should from the gitgo,a major surprise,as past experience was that it would take some tinkering.

The original tracked well,and was easy to put where you wanted it.It had a decent corner with no tendency to "bobble",but you did have to fly it through,you couldn't slam a corner without mushing or (worse yet)stalling.It was fairly heavily loaded for the Tigre .60,so you did have to be very careful about energy management.

About the only bad things about it were the build time(about 600hr),and that it pulled like a horse,making it tiring to fly(at the time I was still a skinny 145lb).

The second one never got past the initial trimming process.I lost it to some freak turbulence that blew it right across the circle,and pancaked it when it hit the end of the lines.

Both were much better airplanes than I am a flyer.

There WILL be another,this time with a four stroke,which should solve the power loading problem.

That's about it,unless you have more Q's.

I appreciate your answer. I'm just interested mainly in the actual flying and handling. I'm coming to the frame of mind that some flyers are doing very well with planes that don't fly well at all- a credit to their flying skills (reflexes) and others may have ships that do fly well- a credit to their building/trimming skills. When you get both a good flyer and good airplane together, that's the real deal. Burning a lot of fuel will get you a long way, but wouldn't it be nice to just brush up a little and signal the judges?! The big fuselage radial engine planes such as your F4 and Al's Bearcats have an appeal of their own- sorta like watching an airshow of a 450 Stearman compared to an Extra. Both pilots are good, but one is really working hard. Thanks again, and best regards, Oh yes- Doug- I found some aluminum flashing on a roll at Home Depot that is .010" and it seems to me to be tempered. It has a mind of its own- sorta springy. If the wx ever gets better I'll bring it to the field.