F2B World Champs history

The other thread about the Walker Cup made me curious about the World Champs. How long HAS there been a F2B World Champs, and who won? The F2D World Champs has only been around since the mid 70s (1976 or 1978, I believe). I remember reading, in a magazine that was far from current at the time, about Bob Gieseke winning the WC, back when I was in high school, and I was surprised when I read more recently that this took place in 1974 (or thereabouts). I'd thought it was sometime in the 60s.

Hi Isky,
Louis Grondal (Belgian) won the first "official" FAI WC in 1960, and again in 1962, with a modified Nobler/Fox 35.
Juri Sirotkin (USSR) in '64 with tha Spacehound/MVVS combat 35.
IIRC,Josef Gabris (Checz??), Super Master/MVVS 35 in '66. MAybe in '68, too. (??)
Billy Werwage was the first US flier to win. '70, USA-1 ST 40 or 46.
I have an ongoing project to build the US planes, and the winners, from '60, '62, and '64. Got the US planes from '60 done, and am building the Grondal plane, albeit slowly.
Bill <><

1990: Zhang Xiangdong
1992: Paul Walker
1996: Han Xinping
1998: Han Xinping
2000: Han Xinping
2002: Han Xinping

>1990: Zhang Xiangdong
>1992: Paul Walker
>1996: Han Xinping
>1998: Han Xinping
>2000: Han Xinping
>2002: Han Xinping
>

1970: Bill Werwage
1972: Bill Werwage
1974: Bob Gieseke
1976: Les McDonald
1978: Bob Hunt
1980: Les McDonald
1982: Les McDonald
1984: Zhu Younan
1986: Anatoly Kolesnikov
1988: Zhang Xiangdong

Any ideas on where they took place, model name and engine?

Und 1994, ver is 1994??

1994 was in Shanghai, China but I don't know who won.

>1994 was in Shanghai, China but I don't know who won.

Han Xinping won in 1994 as well.

Here's what I have so far:

Year	Name	Country	Model	Engine	Location
2002	Han Xinping	China			Sebnitz, Germany
2000	Han Xinping	China			Landres, France
1998	Han Xinping	China			Kiev, Ukraine
1996	Han Xinping	China			Norrköping, Sweden
1994	Han Xinping				Shanghai, China
1992	Paul Walker	USA			Hradec Kralove, Czechoslovakia
1990	Zhang Xiangdong	China			Blenod, France
1988	Zhang Xiangdong	China			Kiev, USSR
1986	Anatoly Kolesnikov	USSR			Pecs, Hungary
1984	Zhu Younan	China			Chicopee,USA
1982	Les McDonald	USA			Oxelosund, Sweden
1980	Les McDonald	USA			Czestochowa, Poland
1978	Bob Hunt	USA			RAF Woodvale, England
1976	Les McDonald	USA			Utrecht, Holland
1974	Bob Gieseke				Hradec Kralove, Czechoslovakia
1972	Bill Werwage	USA			Helsinki, Finalnd
1970	Bill Werwage	USA	USA-1	Super Tigre 46	Namur, Belgium
1968					Helsinki, Finalnd
1966	Josef Gabris		Super Master	MVVS 35	RAF Swinderby, England
1964	Juri Sirotkin	USSR	Spacehound	MVVS Combat 35	Budaors, Hungary
1962	Louis Grondal	Belgium	Nobler	Fox 35	Kiev, USSR
1960	Louis Grondal	Belgium	Nobler	Fox 35	Budaors, Hungary

Steven Yampolsky
Webmaster for www.control-line.org

LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-04 AT 06:54 PM (CDT)
 
Steven,
If you can get hold of Enrico Mauletti's CD - or figure a way of downloading from his site - that has all the magazine articles containing the data you want.

A couple of notes: 1960; Grondals model was a kit Nobler, Fox powered. In '62 he used the "Grondal Nobler"/Fox, which doesnt seem to owe much to a Nobler at all. Herb Hanna would know, he's built plenty.

In '64, I thought Kari won, using his Nakke/Veco 35. He was about 17 at the time & had placed using a kit T'Bird/Veco at the previous champs (could have been the Criterium, though)at the age of about 15.

There appears to be some conflicting information around on the internet about 64/66/68 & my old magazines are in storage-darn.

The MVVS used at the time was a dedicated stunt motor, based on a .29 rear disc speed motor, obviously with different guts, I think that Aeromodeller did a review/test of it at the time.

Interesting stuff, thanks for posting it.
Cheers, Dave

LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-04 AT 10:20 PM (CDT)
 
Hi to all again

If you take the rounded tips off the wing and tailplane as well as the top block, you have a near stock Green Box Nobler. Wing section is stock with a modified tip rib as required by rounded tip. The last one I built is = 15% for the MVVS 51 (W/Champs 2000) straight off Paul Tupker's (Holland)plan. I think Paul reproduced Louis' model reasonably accurate. Only Paul can clarify this. The Aeromodeller had a small (not accurate) drawing around 1962. I think I added it as a post some time ago witha photo of Louis. The standard size ones I built were for the Merco 35. Steve Blake (UK) had a "Starmaker" which was also essentially a Grondal Nobler.

D. H

Alias Herb Hanna!

Hi Herb,
Thanks for the correction, I'd figured you'd know. Is your memory any better than mine on the '64/66/68 results? Someone must have a late'64 Aeromodeller with the 64 w/champs results, I really thought that Kari won in '64.
Cheers, Dave

LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-04 AT 11:06 PM (CDT)
 
>In '64, I thought Kari won, using his Nakke/Veco 35. He was
>about 17 at the time & had placed using a kit T'Bird/Veco at
>the previous champs (could have been the Criterium,
>though)at the age of about 15.

Juhani Kari finished second to Sirotkin in '64, but many thought he *should* have won. He was 17 at the time. He finished 4th in '62 IIRC. Kerrko Kervaho from Finland (Juhani's home) sent me a derth of information on Juhani several years ago. He was reputed to be a very brilliant young man, but died at a very early age. I am including a picture of the remains of one of Juhani's Nakkes that still exists.

>The MVVS used at the time was a dedicated stunt motor, based
>on a .29 rear disc speed motor, obviously with different
>guts, I think that Aeromodeller did a review/test of it at
>the time.

I was just going on the MVVS *combat* engine from the research I did while building the Spacehound. It was reported at the time that Juri ran a MVVS combat version 35 on pressure with a prop that was in the 10 X 4 range. The Spacehound used in '62 had a bladder system, and a cross style bellcrank. There were stunt dedicated MVVS, I know, so that could have been a misconception on the magazine reporter's part about the *combat* aspect. If so, mea culpa.

>Interesting stuff, thanks for posting it.
>Cheers, Dave

I had the pleasure of talking to Mr. Grondal on a few ocassions before his passing about the *Grondal* Nobler. He mentioned that he built it from a Green Box Nobler kit. Upon close inspection of the Tupker plans, many of the parts are the same, with the outlines, shapes, etc., changed. He was also in the vein of Mr Geiseke. Louis never called his plane a Grondal Nobler, either.

Glad for the input,
Bill <><

Bill,
Many thanks for having a better memory than me...but then thats not too difficult, I cheerfully stand corrected.

I have a copy of Kari's original plan for the Nakke, supposed to have been drawn by him - shows reversed differential flaps. I've built several, but with conventional flaps.

I heard the story about the stunt MVVS from an ex-MVVS employee - apparently not many were built, and those only went to the "names".

The drawing of the engine on the Spacehound plan looks pretty much the same as that on the Super Master plan?

LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-04 AT 11:42 PM (CDT)
 
Hi Dave,
Well, to tell you the truth, I would have to get out the plans! LOL!!
I built it about 6 years ago, and the plans have been put away since then.
I have a project of building the winners from the '60s WC. So far I have the USA team from '60 built, and the Grondal Nobler under construction. Even got Kyle at Tank's Hanger to laser cut the main ribs. He has the files saved, and they are quite reasonable price wise.
As to the planes, I have been searching for the correct paint scheme's, etc., and it is coming together.
I can see the confusion on Sirotkin's engine. Being based on a RI 29 and the "secretcy" of the USSR types back then! hahaha
I have really enjoyed doing this search, and hopefully I will live long enough to build them all! I am already doing a refinish on the T-Bird of Palmer from '60. Used it for my Classic plane for a while.
Since I built my Argus, complete with paint matched from a piece of the original, I found out that Steve built a very different plane for the WC! Now I have to build ANOTHER one. Looked a lot like the old one, but a little bigger wing, etc.
Anyway, thanks for your info!
Bill <><

>>>Josef Gabris (Checz??), Super Master/MVVS 35 in '66. MAybe in '68, too. (??)<<<

It looks Slovakia is too small country to be seen from big and far America.
Actually it has fewer inhabitants than many of your towns (5 mil).

However, Jozef Gabris origins from town Bratislava, where we all 5 Slovak F2B flyers live (well … really small country), so he is Slovak. Slovakia was former part of CzechoSLOVAK federation, so that probably leads to that mistake of CZECH. He won WC first time in 1958 in Brussels in Belgium flown on Expo ’58. I do not know if it was regular FAI WC. Then he won also 66/68.

He used Czech MVVS engine called MVVS 5.6 A (volume 5.6ccm = .35 cu.in., “A” means aerobatic version), in model called Supermaster.

LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-04 AT 05:36 AM (CDT)
 

Year	Name	Country	Model	Engine	Location
2002	Han Xinping	China			Sebnitz, Germany
2000	Han Xinping	China			Landres, France
1998	Han Xinping	China			Kiev, Ukraine
1996	Han Xinping	China			Norrköping, Sweden
1994	Han Xinping				Shanghai, China
1992	Paul Walker	USA			Hradec Kralove, Czechoslovakia
1990	Zhang Xiangdong	China			Blenod, France
1988	Zhang Xiangdong	China			Kiev, USSR
1986	Anatoly Kolesnikov	USSR			Pecs, Hungary
1984	Zhu Younan	China			Chicopee,USA
1982	Les McDonald	USA			Oxelosund, Sweden
1980	Les McDonald	USA			Czestochowa, Poland
1978	Bob Hunt	USA			RAF Woodvale, England
1976	Les McDonald	USA			Utrecht, Holland
1974	Bob Gieseke				Hradec Kralove, Czechoslovakia
1972	Bill Werwage	USA			Helsinki, Finalnd
1970	Bill Werwage	USA	USA-1	Super Tigre 46	Namur, Belgium
1968					Helsinki, Finalnd
1966	Josef Gabris		Super Master	MVVS 35	RAF Swinderby, England
1964	Juri Sirotkin	USSR	Spacehound	MVVS Combat 35	Budaors, Hungary
1962	Louis Grondal	Belgium	Nobler	Fox 35	Kiev, USSR
1960	Louis Grondal	Belgium	Nobler	Fox 35	Budaors, Hungary

Steven Yampolsky
>Webmaster for www.control-line.org

Hmmmm.. Interesting indeed. I'd always thought of the US as being the cradle of CLPA, and the US as being the dominant country, and only recently has that not been the case. Looking at the above, though, it seems that the period of absolute American dominance actually began in 1970 and ended in 1982, a period of 12 years and 7 World Championships. Since then, it seems to be dominated by the Chinese (and in the last few years, one particular Chinese flier). Of course, we're just looking at the winners, not the top three or top five finishers - the picture might look a little different then.

That guy Han must have quite a halo!

Some think so.

LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-04 AT 09:53 PM (CDT)
 
>Hmmmm.. Interesting indeed. I'd always thought of the US as
>being the cradle of CLPA, and the US as being the dominant
>country, and only recently has that not been the case.
>Looking at the above, though, it seems that the period of
>absolute American dominance actually began in 1970 and ended
>in 1982, a period of 12 years and 7 World Championships.
>Since then, it seems to be dominated by the Chinese (and in
>the last few years, one particular Chinese flier). Of
>course, we're just looking at the winners, not the top three
>or top five finishers - the picture might look a little
>different then.

I guess it depends on how you want to define "dominance".

Here is what I have in my record for the World Championships.

1960: US team - 1st
2nd Don Still
3rd Bob Palmer
4th Steve Wooley

1962: US team - 3rd (Kiev, Russia - some "interesting" stories)
8th Jim Silhavy
12th Ed Southwick
15th Dick Williams

1964: US team - 1st (Budapest, Hungary)
3rd Bob Gialdini
6th Lew McFarland
9th Bob Gieseke

1966: US team - 1st (Swinderby, England)
2nd Jim Silhavy
3rd Lew McFarland
4th Steve Wooley

1968: US team - 1st (Helsinki, Finland)
3rd Bob Gieseke
4th Steve Wooley
9th Jim Silhavey

1970: US team - 1st (Namur, Belgium), 11 countries, 45 flyers
1st Bill Werwage
2nd Bob Gieseke
4th Gerry Phelps

1972: US team - 1st (Helsinki, Finland) 10 countries, 29 flyers
1st Bill Werwage
6th Bob Gieseke
14th Gerry Phelps

1974: US team - 1st (Hradec Kralove, Czechoslavakia) 18 countries, 47 flyers
1st Bob Gieseke
2nd Bill Werwage
6th Gene Schaffer

1976: US team - 1st (Utrecht, Netherlands) 21 countries, 58 competitors
1st Les McDonald
2nd Bill Werwage
3rd Bob Gieseke*
6th Gene Schaffer

1978: US Team - 1st (Woodvale, England) 18 countries, 53 flyers
1st Bob Hunt
2nd Al Rabe
4th Les McDonald*
5th Bob Gieseke

1980: US Team - 1st (Czestochowa, Poland) 26 countries, 68 flyers
1st Les McDonald
2nd Bob Hunt*
3rd Bill Werwage
10th Wynn Paul

1982: US Team - 1st (Oxelosund, Sweden) 23 countries, 58 flyers
1st Les McDonald*
4th Ted Fancher
5th Bob Baron
6th Bill Werwage

1984: US Team - 1st (Chicopee, Massachusetts)
2nd Bob Baron
4th Jim Casale
5th Les McDonald*
7th Bill Werwage

1986: US Team - 3rd (Pecs, Hungary) 20 countries, 50 flyers
3rd Paul Walker
7th Jim Casale
10th Bill Werwage

Team USSR - 1st, China - 2nd

1988: US Team - ? (Kiev, Russia)
4th Jim Casale
5th Paul Walker
10th Bob Baron

Team China - 1st

1990: US Team 2nd (Blenod le Pon-a-Mousson, France)
3rd Paul Walker
6th Jim Casale
7th Bill Werwage

Team China - 1st, USSR - 3rd

1992: US Team - 1st (Hradek Kralove, Czechoslovakia) 14 countries, 63 flyers
1st Paul Walker
5th Bob Hunt
6th Bill Werwage

1994: US Team - 3rd (Shanghai, China)
4th Paul Walker*
5th Ted Fancher
8th Bob Hunt
9th David Fitzgerald

Rob Hunt placed 3rd among the Junior flyers.

Team China - 1st, Japan - 2nd

1996: US Team - 2nd (Norrkoping, Sweden)
2nd Paul Walker
3rd David Fitzgerald
6th Bill Werwage
16th Derek Barry (Jr flyer and Junior World Champion! Derek qualified in the top 15 with the Open flyers.

Team China - 1st, France - 3rd

1998: US Team - 3rd (Kiev, Russia) ("interesting" stories) 17 countries, 54 fliers
2nd David Fitzgerald
5th Paul Walker
7th Bill Werwage
33rd Dondi Garrison (Junior flyer - 2nd among the Jr fliers)

Team China - 1st, Japan - 2nd

2000: US Team - 3rd (Landres, France) 19 countries, 49 fliers
6th Bill Werwage
9th Paul Walker
22nd David Fitzgerald

3rd in Jr, Dondi Garrison, unknown overall placing

2002: US Team - 3rd (Sebnitz, Germany)
3rd Bill Werwage
8th Rob Gruber**
14th David Fitzgerald
15th Todd Lee

Team China - 1st, France - 2nd 88 fliers plus 12 juniors

* Denotes individual flew as an independent, score did not count towards team standing.

** Gruber was the Junior flyer, placed 2nd among the juniors, and his score placed him 8th overall for counting in the top three US team members for team score.

I make no claims that the above information is 100% accurate. If there are any corrections or additions to fill in some of the missing information, I would appreciate being so informed.

When Wynn Paul comes out with his book, there will be an exhaustive listing for the World Championships results as he has been researching this information for a long time.

From the above, one should not assume that the quality of the United States teams has diminished in the recent years. The number of flyers who fly well from around the world has increased. At least this has been my observation as a judge at three World Championships and an observer in 2002 since 1978.

No other country in any model World Championship event has a record to match that of the United States F2B Control Line Aerobatics Teams.

>No other country in any model World Championship event has a
>record to match that of the United States F2B Control Line
>Aerobatics Teams.

Yeah, but it would be nice to bring the crown home! I'll be rooting for our guys as hard as I can!

OK, here's the updated info:

Year	Name	Country	Model	Engine	Location
2002	Xinping Han	China	Skywriter	Super Tigre 60	Sebnitz, Germany
2000	Xinping Han	China	Skywriter	Super Tigre 60	Landres, France
1998	Xinping Han	China	Skywriter	Super Tigre 60	Kiev, Ukraine
1996	Xinping Han	China	Skywriter	Super Tigre 60	Norrköping, Sweden
1994	Xinping Han	China	Skywriter	Super Tigre 60	Shanghai, China
1992	Paul Walker	USA	Impact	OS 40 VF	Hradec Kralove, Czechoslovakia
1990	Zhang Xiangdong	China	Skywriter	Super Tigre 60	Blenod, France
1988	Zhang Xiangdong	China	Skywriter	Super Tigre 60	Kiev, USSR
1986	Anatoly Kolesnikov	USSR	KA-10		Pecs, Hungary
1984	Zhu Younan	China			Chicopee,USA
1982	Les McDonald	USA	Stilleto 660		Oxelosund, Sweden
1980	Les McDonald	USA	Stilleto 660	K&B 40	Czestochowa, Poland
1978	Bob Hunt	USA	Genesis Mk IV	OS 40 FSR	RAF Woodvale, England
1976	Les McDonald	USA	Stilleto 660	Super Tigre 46	Utrecht, Holland
1974	Bob Gieseke	USA	Gieseke Nobler	Fox 35	Hradec Kralove, Czechoslovakia
1972	Bill Werwage	USA	USA-1	Super Tigre 46	Helsinki, Finalnd
1970	Bill Werwage	USA	USA-1	Super Tigre 46	Namur, Belgium
1968	Josef Gabris	Czechoslovakia	Super Master	MVVS 5.6 A	Helsinki, Finalnd
1966	Josef Gabris	Czechoslovakia	Super Master	MVVS 5.6 A	RAF Swinderby, England
1964	Juri Sirotkin	USSR	Spacehound	MVVS Combat 35	Budaors, Hungary
1962	Louis Grondal	Belgium	Nobler	Fox 35	Kiev, USSR
1960	Louis Grondal	Belgium	Nobler	Fox 35	Budaors, Hungary

I do not have any magazines from the past years since I only started out in this sport in 2003. I greatly appreciate all you help! The results will be posted on www.control-line.org for everyone to see and reference. There are only a few items missing:

1) What engine did Les McDonald use in his Stiletto during '82 WC? Was it K&B 40 or did he go back to ST46?
2) Younan Zhu's plane and motor
3) I am still not sure what engine Juri Sirotkin use in 1962.
4) What was the size of Koleshnikov's custom made motor? Was it a 46?

"4) What was the size of Koleshnikov's custom made motor? Was it a 46?"

According to Tom Dixon's 1997 MA article on the KA-10, Kolesnikov used a handmade rear exhaust 60 for the '86 WC.

HI Steven

Les used a K&B 40 for his last win also.

Regards

I guess this is proof positive that Supertigre's take care of serious business!!!

How soon they forget.I happen to notice on Keith's list that he kind of forgot someone from 1996...Jr.World Champion Derek Barry!He was also 16th overall having qualified in the top 15 with the Open flyers.
Dale Barry

>How soon they forget.I happen to notice on Keith's list that
>he kind of forgot someone from 1996...Jr.World Champion
>Derek Barry!He was also 16th overall having qualified in the
>top 15 with the Open flyers.
> Dale Barry

Dale,

My deepest apology. My omission of Derek's name was unintentional. This shows how incomplete my data base is. My error is not intended in any way to diminish the significant accomplishment of Derek's achievement in any way.

I also omitted Rob Hunt who placed 3rd among the Junior flyers in 1994. My list in #23 post above has been corrected.

The results have been posted on http://www.control-line.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=59

Volunteers wanted!

I am looking for someone to write a small introduction to what the event is all about and some history. While statistics are nice, they fail miserably to convey the essence of this event.

LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-04 AT 03:23 AM (CDT)
 
Steven, I have data collected by Kerkko Kehravuo from Finland. It contains also TEAM results and first 3 places. I have only paper form, I think if you contact him ...

If not I can scan it and send it to you if you want.

However there are also older WC, so I can add following:

1954 Holland, den Haag
Henri Stouffs, Belgium model:Blue Pants engine:ED Racer 246

1956 France, Paris
???

1958 Belgium, Brussels
Josef Gabris, Czechoslovakia model:Master engine:MVVS 5.6 A

By that list there are also disproportions regarding engines:

Zhang Xiangdong used some Chinese engine of volume 9ccm (.55 cu. in.) instead of ST .60 (no idea if it is so)

Anatoly Kolesnikov used custom 7.8ccm (.48 cu. in.) in 1986 this I tend to beleive, because it was typical volume for those engines in USSR that time. Later he used .50