My heart goes out to all........
East Coast nightmare
Stuka Stunt Main Forum · 33 of 33 known posts recovered
really dont know what to say... but the world will not be safe for those s.o.b.'s who did this
For a different perspective of the WTC and Pentagon, check out the following URL. Steve
<http://www.spaceimaging.com/newsroom/attack_gallery.htm#wtc_post>
Also at this side of the ocean we feel shocked and miserable about these senseless acts. We'll have to join together to fight terrorism for a free world. Be strong!
Don't feel like building or flying these days.
Paul,Belgium
LAST EDITED ON Sep-15-01 AT 00:29 AM (CDT)
Just the rambling comments of the newly unemployed.
I suspect the people responsible didn't really realize that the repercussions for this senseless act were likely to be enormous. Terrorists try to bomb the WTC and we track down and arrest the immediate people responsible. They bomb our embassy pressence in Africa and we retaliate in kind. They attack a naval vessel and again, we respond proprotionally.
But this time, I think we've had enough. I saw on the news that President Bush asked for the authorization to call up as many as a million reserve troops. Reports of plans for massive retaliation abound in the news reports. This is one of those seminal moments. You're on our side or you aren't. If you aren't, look out.
Buckle up, folks, this is going to be ugly.
I pray for the innocent bystanders everywhere.
Randy
Friday evening I got back after being stuck in Kansas City. Was on flight to the West coast when this trajedy occurred. I live in the Maryland suburbs right outside of Washinton DC. I have 3 choices of airports to fly out of Reagon, Dullas, or BWI. I choose BWI that morning. Got chill when we de-plane in KC as we all watched CNN at the gate. Had alot to time to reflect during those three days. I got on plane that morning not thinking for once that I wouldn't be coming back, perhaps like many of the victoms that day. We need to be ready to meet our maker as we don't know the future. Some things which I thought related to this stunt passion we all share, this applies to me at least:
Don't take hobby too seriously. It can and will take time away from those who are important to us. My wife supports me in this hobby, however, more then once she's said "going to spend time with your other woman" I hope to never hear that again.
Take the time NOW to share your affection and appreciation those who you are close to. We all have friends in this hobby we're close to, don't take them for granted. Thanks for letting me share (food for thought if anything) and God bless.
dave
Don't take hobby too seriously. It can and will take time away from those who are important to us. My wife supports me in this hobby, however, more then once she's said "going to spend time with your other woman" I hope to never hear that again.
Take the time NOW to share your affection and appreciation those who you are close to. We all have friends in this hobby we're close to, don't take them for granted. Thanks for letting me share (food for thought if anything) and God bless.
dave
Hi all
I hate to say this but I'm suprised that this hasnt happend sooner, whats to stop someone from molding a knife from high impact plastic or carbon fiber tape it somewhere on your body and walk on any airplane undetected, I'll bet you could do it today from Boston, the only way we can stop this kind of thing from happening again is to wipe all terrorists of the planet and let future terrorists know that you dont mess with the USA, if you do your intire country and those that assisted you will be wiped off the planet.Thats the only way we're going to stop this madness.
Dwayne
I hate to say this but I'm suprised that this hasnt happend sooner, whats to stop someone from molding a knife from high impact plastic or carbon fiber tape it somewhere on your body and walk on any airplane undetected, I'll bet you could do it today from Boston, the only way we can stop this kind of thing from happening again is to wipe all terrorists of the planet and let future terrorists know that you dont mess with the USA, if you do your intire country and those that assisted you will be wiped off the planet.Thats the only way we're going to stop this madness.
Dwayne
Dwayne is quite correct overall, imo, but I want to point out that a knife is no more necessary to kill people than a gun. A two foot piece of stout fishing line, a shoelace or a common zip-strip pulled tightly around the throat will kill very efficiently. This may sound like an old saw, but "things" don't kill people, BAD PEOPLE kill people! If any "good" comes from this incredible tragedy perhaps that realization will be one.
Yes I belong to the NRA, I have a concealed weapon permit & I'm proud to be an American!
Yes I belong to the NRA, I have a concealed weapon permit & I'm proud to be an American!
Nils
There are virtually any number of common items that can be fashioned into undectectable weapons. Learned these things while guarding prisoners in the County Jail in 1972. They can even make guns and bullets these days out of plastic!
Jim Pollock
This is indeed a great tragedy, however I have to disagree that bombing and/or sending troops anywhere is going to achieve anything.
Find the people responsible, bring them to justice in a court of law, according to the law.
The people who did this did not hate America because we are so great, rich, moral, just, free, etc. They did it because WE have been responsible for sowing death and devastation across the globe for the past half-century now in their lands, ourselves. One only has to look at what we did to the Serbs just three or so short years ago, to see where this kind of anger towards us comes from. This is really not the place to get into any of this, there are MANY other forums on the net for that. I will say that if you seriously believe that any amount of military force is going to either stop, or end this, you are sadly mistaken, sit back and watch it happen. Don't say later I didn't tell you it was going to occur.
Find the people responsible, bring them to justice in a court of law, according to the law.
The people who did this did not hate America because we are so great, rich, moral, just, free, etc. They did it because WE have been responsible for sowing death and devastation across the globe for the past half-century now in their lands, ourselves. One only has to look at what we did to the Serbs just three or so short years ago, to see where this kind of anger towards us comes from. This is really not the place to get into any of this, there are MANY other forums on the net for that. I will say that if you seriously believe that any amount of military force is going to either stop, or end this, you are sadly mistaken, sit back and watch it happen. Don't say later I didn't tell you it was going to occur.
Sadly,
John K.
"It'll probably feel real good again, once it quits hurting".
Well Jake, I agree with you on two points & disagree on all the others. Sending troops & bombs will not accomplish our goal, I do agree with that. I'm sure this fight is going to be won, but with a very, very diverse strategy that simply includes troops & bombs as part of the whole.
I finally heard an explanation of why these people hate us so much that makes sense (to me, at least) from an interview I watched last night.
Your statement "The people who did this did not hate America because we are so great, rich, moral, just, free, etc.", according to what I was hearing, is wrong, that is primarily why they hate us. Agreed, it's also partially because of things we've done. (I also agree that we've done some pretty underhanded things from time to time.) However, mostly they hate us because of what we represent.
These cultures have been around for thousands of years & for the most part they have never advanced into the modern world, primarily because of their leadership & way of life. There are precious few (if indeed there are any) true democracies in the middle east other than Israel. I'm sure they also hate us because we are allied with Israel. (I must include myself among the tens of millions of people that have no real idea why the Islamic people & the Jewish people hate each other, any more than I understand why Irish Catholics & Protestants hate each other. Apparently it's simply a given to the people involved.) The leaders of the states aiding & abetting terrorists live in palaces, while the vast majority of the population is not only extremely poor, but also intentionally uneducated & intentionally uninformed &/or misinformed.
Their leaders aren't going to tell them that the reason they live in squalor is because they themselves are corrupt selfish brutes. (Khadafi, Saddam, etc.) They pretty much tell them there is only so much "good stuff" in the world & the reason they don't have any "good stuff" is because the industrial free world is hogging it all up, & we, as Americans, are the global symbol of that industrial free world. Hence, we must all be killed for them to advance. I have no doubt that the vast majority of the people supporting these terrorists have NO CLUE how far most of the world has passed them by.
Now, as far as bringing those responsible to justice peacefully, we gave the states primarily supporting them 72 hours to turn them over to us. I believe the 72 hours is pretty well used up. So far I haven't seen many being rounded up & turned over.
So, Jake, just how do you suggest we "Find the people responsible, bring them to justice in a court of law, according to the law." ?
I honestly hope you have a workable alternative to whatever our course of action turns out to be, but I sincerely doubt it. We've done the trade embargos, done the finger wagging & saying "That's a No No!" We tried "Don't do that again or we'll blow up some more of your desert." So far all I've read from you is what won't work, just exactly what do YOU suggest WILL work Jake?
One more thing while I'm up here on my box.
Obviously this IS a legitimate place for this topic, since Leonard himself started a thread showing support for the cause of freedom, even allowing a banner add for same on his site that he pays for. (Thank you very much Leonard!)
I've read "This is really not the place to get into any of this, there are MANY other forums on the net for that" in several variations repeatedly in the various threads on various forums (Some now deleted). It appears to me that you have made nearly as many posts in these various threads as everyone else combined. You certainly are entitled to your opinion, since this is a free country (so far), but I would appreciate it when you participate in these threads, if you would kindly refrain from trying to semi-politely tell the rest of us to shut up. Your "This is really not the place to get into any of this, there are MANY other forums on the net for that", while posting in the thread, to me at least, is akin to making loud siren noises while throwing gas on a fire.
Nils
Wow Nils, get you stirred up and look out. And you seemed so mild mannered.
>>I must include myself among the tens of millions of people that have no real idea why the Islamic people & the Jewish people hate each other, any more than I understand why Irish Catholics & Protestants hate each other. Apparently it's simply a given to the people involved.) <<
Well, if you're looking for a history lesson, some of it's pretty easy. sand Jews haven't gotten along to well since before Moses. You might recall that the Arabs enslaved the Jews to build the pyramids. Just part of more than 5000 years of contention. Bottom line is, they all want the same pieces of real estate. It's important to remember that these are real grievances, even if carried to a ridiculous extent. As long as the USA supports Israel, The Arabs will have a problem with us. Hopefully, they can be productive about it. Hey, these people know how to carry a grudge. I'd hate to see all Arabian states suffer because of the idiocy of a few. The Irish, well, I'll leave that to someone else.
I heard a good point today while I was in a meeting. We look at the Arabs as if they were "all the same". As if the actions of these terrorists reflects the feelings of all Arab States. How would you like to be judged by the actions of Timothy McVey? Not all Arab governments or people agree with or like bin Laden or others of his ilk.
Randy (who is now officially climbing off the soap box---next?)
You're right Randy, once you get to know me I'm every bit as meek & mild mannered as Dirty Dan Rutherford 
Thanks for the history lesson, but I was already aware of the real estate problem. What I, & I think a large portion of the free world, cannot fathom, is why the folks involved have never managed to bury the proverbial hatchet after five thousand years (or however long it's been).
I live in a very small town of 700. We have a large Hispanic population, around 30% I think, the vast majority of whom are wonderful neighbors. We have a rental house that we rent to a very nice American Indian family right across the street. We have a smattering of black people & asians. For the most part we all get along fine. In fact, one of our Mexican neighbors is flying an American flag tied together with a Mexican flag in a show of solidarity which I was particularly moved by.
Perhaps the fact that we Americans have learned to live together relatively peacefully, (for the most part at least) in spite of our ethnic & religious differences, is another reason the terrorists & their supporters hate us. Certainly we have done our share of internal bickering, but compared to the middle east for the most part the vast majority of us try very hard to get along regardless of our differences.
I really don't think all Arab peoples are thought to be the same in this country & I don't think all Arab Nations will be blamed for the actions of the militant few, I certainly hope not anyway. After all, Iraq invaded Kuwait, Arab against Arab. That should tell us something.
Thanks for the history lesson, but I was already aware of the real estate problem. What I, & I think a large portion of the free world, cannot fathom, is why the folks involved have never managed to bury the proverbial hatchet after five thousand years (or however long it's been).
I live in a very small town of 700. We have a large Hispanic population, around 30% I think, the vast majority of whom are wonderful neighbors. We have a rental house that we rent to a very nice American Indian family right across the street. We have a smattering of black people & asians. For the most part we all get along fine. In fact, one of our Mexican neighbors is flying an American flag tied together with a Mexican flag in a show of solidarity which I was particularly moved by.
Perhaps the fact that we Americans have learned to live together relatively peacefully, (for the most part at least) in spite of our ethnic & religious differences, is another reason the terrorists & their supporters hate us. Certainly we have done our share of internal bickering, but compared to the middle east for the most part the vast majority of us try very hard to get along regardless of our differences.
I really don't think all Arab peoples are thought to be the same in this country & I don't think all Arab Nations will be blamed for the actions of the militant few, I certainly hope not anyway. After all, Iraq invaded Kuwait, Arab against Arab. That should tell us something.
Our leaders appear to be doing an amazing job of bringing all civilized people together, Christian, Jew, Moslem & even Chinese Communists (!), however tenuously, in the fight against these radical maniacs. We WILL prevail because we MUST prevail!
Jake, to some extent I agree with you again. Our country was controlled for 8 years by self serving, amoral, lying phonies & our house does need cleaning. We're working on it. (My opinion, of course, like it or lump it, I don't care.)
As for our current crisis, once again I ask you for your solution. Should we stick our heads in the sand (perhaps a poor choice of words), wring our hands & keep digging out of the rubble (cleaning our house?) as our world is destroyed around us? Not a viable option, imo.
As far as what is & what isn't appropriate for this forum, as far as I'm concerned your opinion is irrelevant. Only Leonard's opinion of what is appropriate applies here. If he wishes to cut this thread, or any posts in it, so be it.
Nils
Jake:
Perhaps the underlying reasons for this dispicable tragedy even date back to the crusades, inflamed by our lonely support of Israel and the rebirth of Moslem fundamentalists. Nils makes many very good points regarding why some (most) of these people hate the west in general and the USA in particular. In the final analysis of where we are right now, the reasons are not particularly significant.
Perhaps the underlying reasons for this dispicable tragedy even date back to the crusades, inflamed by our lonely support of Israel and the rebirth of Moslem fundamentalists. Nils makes many very good points regarding why some (most) of these people hate the west in general and the USA in particular. In the final analysis of where we are right now, the reasons are not particularly significant.
Dilligent police work, international manhunts, capture of those terrorists thought to have been involved, trial, even execution of those responsible also is not an adequate remedy. After all, these people profess to belive that their entry to heaven is guaranteed if killed in battle with non-believers, apparently even innocent women and children non-believers also qualify the terrorist to his place at Allah's side. Hundreds, maybe thousands of terrorists wait to take their place.
Several governments have sponsored and are sponsoring these Islamic terrorists. Iran, Iraq, Libya, Sudan, Afganistan, Maybe Algeria, maybe Yemen, mayber others. These governments must be required to pay for those decisions. This is essentially what our President is telling us as well as telling us that it will be a long, difficult and expensive struggle. It may well lead to world war. It may well lead to nuclear war. It will likely increase terrorist activity toward America in the short run. OPEC will likely embargo oil. Despite these reservations the only way to end Islamic terrorism is to bring the full weight of US military forces to bear on these governments. No more token half measures. No tents in the desert blown up with million dollar cruse missles. Only crushing, overwhelming firepower, followed by occupation for as long as necessary to establish a democratic government and improve the lot of the remaining citizens.
We have already paid a terrible price-the future price will likely be much higher. I can only support our government in whatever steps it takes and pray for a sucessful conclusion.
The only thing I have to say is, look at Waco, and Ruby Ridge, and Wounded Knee, IN America, done by the US government. There are several other examples. And that is only a start here locally.
America is just as guilty of atrocities as the most corrupt of the regimes you mentioned. We have more than our share of blood on our own hands. It is time we stopped ALL of this, starting with our own house.
America is just as guilty of atrocities as the most corrupt of the regimes you mentioned. We have more than our share of blood on our own hands. It is time we stopped ALL of this, starting with our own house.
JAK
"It'll probably feel real good again, once it quits hurting".
And I'll politely tell you Sir that you are WAY off base. But you do as you will. I defy you to ever pull up one single thread I have posted anywere where I told anyone to "shut up" as you claim. Saying this is not not the place for any of this (and it isn't) is a heck of a lot different. This isn't my board or yours, same as I have said elsewhere. WHERE is that wrong? We don't pay for this, Leonard does.
JAK
"It'll probably feel real good again, once it quits hurting".
Nils,
I have a lot of solutions, but from reading what you wrote, I seriously doubt you would bother to listen to any of them.
Jake
"It'll probably feel real good again, once it quits hurting".
On the contrary Jake, if you have "a lot of solutions" when the entire rest of the free world is struggling to come up with ONE POSSIBLE solution, I would like very much to hear a few of them. For that matter, any one of them. I will listen, as I'm sure everyone else will. We need to share ideas.
One of the reasons I think this actually IS a good place to discuss this is because as modelers, indeed, as an international group of modelers, we ALL are problem solvers in one way or another by our very nature. An honest civil disagreement can, & often does, improve otherwise insurmountable problems as long as it is a positive discussion. Taking a negative posture by merely saying "That won't work", with no suggestions as to what WILL work will get us nowhere.
Nils
I don't take a so called "negative" posture on anything. I DO strongly object to killing people to no good purpose.
The course the US seems bent upon wil achieve exactly the same results the Russians did in ten years fighting in Afganistan, not to mention the British, who were there from the late 19th Century into the early 20th. In short: NOTHING. They failed totally, and so will we.
If you don't believe this, sit back and watch it happen. Come back in five or ten years (assuming we are both around that long!), and then tell me how wrong I was.
The course the US seems bent upon wil achieve exactly the same results the Russians did in ten years fighting in Afganistan, not to mention the British, who were there from the late 19th Century into the early 20th. In short: NOTHING. They failed totally, and so will we.
If you don't believe this, sit back and watch it happen. Come back in five or ten years (assuming we are both around that long!), and then tell me how wrong I was.
John K.
"It'll probably feel real good again, once it quits hurting".
>>the only way we can stop this kind of thing from happening again is to wipe all terrorists of the planet and let future terrorists know that you dont mess with the USA, if you do your intire country and those that assisted you will be wiped off the planet<<
You may have noticed that not many Russian airliners are hijacked. It's simple, if you hijack a Russian airliner, they come after you, your family and everyone that aided you. You generally end up without an organization from which to perpetrate terrorism.
I saw this very thing advocated by a Middle -East terrorism expert while watching the endless news.
Something to think about.
Randy
And again. This is NOT the place for any of this. If you guys think military force will settle any of this, just ask the Russians how many dead they took home from Afganistan in ten years (1979-1989) fighting there. Several thousand. Did they win? Did we in Vietnam? The answer is NO, and we won't now either.
We are going at this wrong end around. We need to clean up our own act and house first. We are NOT a just and moral country anymore, and have not been for a lot of years now. As ugly and hateful as that fact might be, it is the truth. WE are the ones to blame for what happens in our land, no one else is. I don't intend to get into a discussion over this on Leonard's board, but I will again say to you, that force will solve NONE of this, and in the end will make things MUCH worse. If you doubt it, just sit back and watch it happen.
We are going at this wrong end around. We need to clean up our own act and house first. We are NOT a just and moral country anymore, and have not been for a lot of years now. As ugly and hateful as that fact might be, it is the truth. WE are the ones to blame for what happens in our land, no one else is. I don't intend to get into a discussion over this on Leonard's board, but I will again say to you, that force will solve NONE of this, and in the end will make things MUCH worse. If you doubt it, just sit back and watch it happen.
John K.
"It'll probably feel real good again, once it quits hurting".
One of the more interesting things we'll learn is who is and who isn't our friends. Kuwait, who we rescued, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan...even Russia and all the ex-Soviet States that we are helping? What are Pakistan's motives? I hope this goes better than the "War on Drugs", however it turns out. I have doubts as to whether another Desert Storm will help, but so far, I have not heard the United Nations mentioned...if they are not involved, it should increase the chance of it working. Getting Bin Laden into court won't help a thing, IMHO. On the other hand, it will make US feel a lot better to toast a bunch of terrorists. Steve
I and I can guarantee you beyond doubt that they will in return, "toast" a whole bunch of us also. It doesn't work going either way. Look at the history of Israel from 1948 until today. Tell me what you see. Oh, by the way, those involved in the foundation of the State of Israel ALSO committed "terrorist" acts against the British who were then in charge of Palestine. Including assassinations, blowing up buildings, killing people, and causing general chaos in the area. Take a look at history, and take a look in a mirror, and you (and I) will find the reasons we are where where we all are today.
JAK
"It'll probably feel real good again, once it quits hurting".
GUY'S........ we all have our own concepts of moral certainty, (A fable we are to understand). 99% of us want revenge. While it's served COLD I do not adhere to BOMBING a country into dust. I do want justice even if we have to send Troops. This well be along hall for everyone....you, me, and our kids. Controline will be ok because we NEED an outlet to take our minds off of WORLD Affairs. We chose this hobby for a reason, RELAXATION! I will continue to PLEASE myself in flying MODELS and reading this web page. I would like to thank ALL that have posted here.
Scott
Scott
LAST EDITED ON Sep-18-01 AT 00:02 AM (CDT)
I DON'T want revenge.
"Vengence is mine" said the Lord.
"Him who shall draw the sword, that same shall die by it".
We are NOT blameless, nor or our hands clean, no matter how much we might protest. If we continue in this course, we will have FAR more than the 58,000 dead we had return home in transfer caskets from Vietnam, come back to us this time around. And again, it will change NOTHING.
John
"It'll probably feel real good again, once it quits hurting".
So lets all just sit around and let them bomb hell out of us whenever they like, right!
George
No, bring any of those remaining to justice in a court of law, under the law. That is what civiized nations, such as we are supposed to be do.
You can reverse your own statement, and make the same case from the point of view of the "other side", and neither one will be right in the end.
You can reverse your own statement, and make the same case from the point of view of the "other side", and neither one will be right in the end.
John
"It'll probably feel real good again, once it quits hurting".
Jake, I see two real fallicies with all of your arguments. The first and formemost that I vehemently disagree with is the implicit assumption that "we deserved it" (not your words, but your implications.) You say we are not innocent and therefore we need to look at ourselves first.
The second is that we only need to take these terrorists to court and then "clean up our act" (which means agree with whatever cause it is that any terrorist individual or group demands, and all will be well in the world.) Again I vehmently disagree with you.
These are PRECISELY the things the terrorists are wanting us to do. They want us to believe that we were wrong and that we deserved it. (After all, isn't that why they did it? Don't they believe that they were right in killing us? Don't they believe that their god, whoever he may be, is smiling down on them?)
They want us to change, and the only change they will accept is a change to their philosophies. But since terrorism is not a united front but takes on many "causes", many of which are in conflict with one another, one cannot avoid terrorism accepting any position.
What needs to be done is not only to bring those who planned and brought about this atrocity to justice (dead or alive, their choice) but to also eradicate any threats of further violence and terrorism throughout the world.
There is no religion in the world that truly believes that terrorist acts such as this will take one to heaven. So we are not fighting religion. We are fighting fanatics. This is not a holy war. It is not Christianity verses Islam or Islam verses anything. If you look at the vast number of Islamic countries that are saddened by these events you will see that.
One thing remains true. No matter what position you or I or our people or our country take, there will always be people who disagree. Our country is founded on Democracy. We vote. We count the votes. And then we accept the votes. (Well, almost always.) And then we have a "peaceful transition" as the newly elected are sworn in. And they are sworn to follow a constitution which gives us guiding principles so that we do not stray from the path.
But there are others who don't believe in Democracy. There are others who think they should control by other means. And if they are not in the majority (which they are not, because otherwise they would accept a majority vote) they will go to any means to achieve their goals. One means at their disposal is a terrorist act where 20 people can kill 50,000 (or 50 million if they used atomic or chemical weapons) and this is what needs to be prevented. And they are a threat, not just to us, but to the world.
This is where the war has begun. This is where the war needs to be fought. And this is why it won't be quick, and it won't be easy. And we can't stick our heads in the sand, because we will get our feathers burnt again and again and again.
Oh, I fully expect that some terrorist group or individual will try something again. And they will "justify" their action based on whatever response our country took to this unjustified act. Stopping terrorism won't be easy, but it must be done. And if they pick up the sword against us, then, yes, it may be that only by our picking up the sword can they be stopped.
Leonard Neumann
Leonard Neumann
And, having said what I said, I am going to lock the thread. Other people can post what they wish in new posts, but I think this one has strayed far from its original intent.
Leonard Neumann
Leonard Neumann
LAST EDITED ON Sep-18-01 AT 09:12 AM (CDT)
And I completely disagree with you Sir. I can give you the e-mail of a Serb or two who will also. What I said was absolutely correct. And future History will prove it to be also.
JAK
"It'll probably feel real good again, once it quits hurting".
Bringing him to a court of law. Then we can throw him in jail for several years support him and give him better settings than he has now. Ac heat three square meals a day civil rights. That is ridiculous. He is obviously a coward. Hunt him down enough and he will kill himself when his troops are depleted and you(a country) are getting to close. You have a true fanatic on your hands. He wont let you catch him.(Hitler)
This fanantic and many others like him beleive that democracy and human rights are the work of Satan. We are known as Big satan and Isreal is little satan. The thinking that we are bad because we back isreal is just the very tip of the iceburg. Fanatics like lauden use the pain and anguish of opressed people, ones who have lost loved ones or are very poor and uneducated. He teaches to these people that the west culture is a Threat to their religion. That is where you get such a strong committment. When we are seen as a threat there are no innocent people. All of us are the enemy. They are committed to the religion so whatever must be done is what has to be done to keep the religion strong. These people feel Lauden is their great leader. He will defend and keep strong their religion. Well they dont have access to numbers like we do that say there are more muslims in this world than any other religion.
So we put him in jail until his execution. Then they will hijak planes or set off bombs until we let him out. If we kill him he becomes a martar. If we leave him alone he WILL DO THIS AGAIN. He will probably try to do this again in any case. The whole problem is that we are two different kinds of people and we cannot just go all over the world and institute governments of democracy. That is just TOATL CRAP. We are not the world peace keepers. Beleive it or not some people dont want to be like the USA. I say we pull out. Start drilling for our own oil. Leave the middle east for good. Leave most of the rest of the world also. Still trade but come home and leave them alone to live their own lives. All this of course after we hunt him down and make him pay for the crime he has committed aginst humanity. 63 nations lost lives in that tradgedy. That cannot go without justice. 17 sailors were lost in the Cole bombing and nothing happened in return so he struck harder. He will keep stiking until he gets his war. The question is can he handle it. Hunt him down make him pay then leave the world alone. We are the USA and we should stay right here. We are not the world police and I am tired of paying for it.
Some say we brought this on ourselves. I say you better be glad I am not arounbd when you do. To say that those people died because of what we did is just wrong. You are simply saying to all those who have lost loved ones "Well that's what what we get" That is crap. God gave us the right to make choices. This is the place where you can make any choice you want. FREEDOM is what this country is about. God did not want his people ruled by some tirant who says what you can and cant do based on their interpuretations of the bible. I beleive he wants people to live in a civil loving manner ruled by their own hearts and their own intupretations of the bible. He gave us this choice.
Doug Moon
Leonard, are you SURE you locked this thread? Maybe the key is still in the lock! Steve